January '07 BOTM: To Say Nothing of the Dog

**LordBalthazar** · December 31st, 2006, 04:09 PM

I'm in the midst of New Year's preparations so, rather than wade in with my opinions, I thought I'd start the ball rolling with a few questions to ponder and hopefully engender some discussion.

1. To Say Nothing of the Dog has been described as a scifi Victorian comedy-mystery. Guilty on all counts, but did you find it was too much of one and perhaps not enough of another? Were there certain aspects of the story that you preferred, or others that intruded upon your enjoyment?

2. Was Willis's concept of time travel consistent throughout the novel? Were there any paradoxes that were left unexplained at book's end?

3. Were you satisfied with the ending? Were you pleased (or perhaps pleasantly surprised?) by the manner in which all of the loose ends were tied up?

**LordBalthazar** · January 1st, 2007, 07:40 PM

Okay, I'll wade in with some preliminary comments. I really enjoyed this book, partly for the scifi elements (I'm a sucker for a good time travel story done well), but mainly for the humor. It's not often a novel marries the two, and I thought Willis did a terrific job in contrasting the inanity of time travel and its various complications with the staid Victorian society in which our protagonist must struggle. This is one of the funniest works of science fiction (if not the funniest work of fiction) I've read. Great characters, some really great scenes, and a story that moved at a nice pace. Although I guessed the identity of the mysterious Mr. C during the trip to Coventry, the eventual reveal was no less satisfying.

Less satisfying for me, however, was the wrap up that relied too heavily on explanations to resolve the many questions that arose over the course of the story, those dealing with the seeming time travel paradoxes in particular. I wouldn't have minded the big reveal (that it was a tinkering with the future that initiated the problems rather than the assumed fudging with the past) if only it had been set up a little better, hints dropped a little sooner, rather than coming out of the blue.

**Erfael** · January 1st, 2007, 08:04 PM

New Year Resolution #53, actually participate in the book club discussions again, rather than just reading the books and following along....

I really, thoroughly, truly, enjoyed this book a great deal. Has to be one of my favorite reads of the year, and a nice note to end on. I really enjoy the Victorian comedy of errors, and this was very satisfying on that level. Add in the time travel angle, done well, and it was even better.

I have to agree that the wrap-up came a little late in the game, but at least some seeds were sewn as they went along. There was discussion before the end about how the continuum will try to correct itself. I do agree, though, that she took her good old time getting to what the problem REALLY was (to say nothing of the fact that at the end we find out that the "problem" was just a further "correction" from something that happens 600 more years down the line).

I'm trying to decide if narratively it would have been a problem to start introducing tidbits about the 1940 theft earlier. I think it may have led to a weakening of the Victorian aspect of it if handled without almost perfect care. If we start to know that it's all a correction too early, then the 1888 events lose pretty much all dramatic tension. "We're all just doing what the continuum needs to do to correct itself, so there are no problems at all. All will be well in the end, no matter how much we think we're screwing up." Could have led to far bigger problems, I think.

In regards to your question of her time travel "method" and paradoxes, this is probably the best explanation of a viable time travel that I've seen in a book thus far. Most of them are riddled with major problems that the author simply tries to sidestep at the end. Here the idea of the continuum working to correct itself works for me.

As to the balance of ingredients, I thought all was well. There were no sections I felt were too much. The book moved along at a very nice pace, and I hardly noticed the 500 pages going by. I would have perhaps liked the 2040s sections to be a little less goofy, but they fit the tone of the book enough that I didn't mind it all that much.

Favorite character: The cat.

All for now. Looking forward to hearing from more people.

**LordBalthazar** · January 1st, 2007, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Erfael

I'm trying to decide if narratively it would have been a problem to start introducing tidbits about the 1940 theft earlier. I think it may have led to a weakening of the Victorian aspect of it if handled without almost perfect care. If we start to know that it's all a correction too early, then the 1888 events lose pretty much all dramatic tension. "We're all just doing what the continuum needs to do to correct itself, so there are no problems at all. All will be well in the end, no matter how much we think we're screwing up." Could have led to far bigger problems, I think.

[...]

Favorite character: The cat.

I agree that almost perfect care would be needed to introduce hints regarding the future tampering sooner without taking away from the mystery in 1888. They would have to be incredibly subtle and equally clever - but none come to mind so for now I'll have to agree that doing so could have led to far bigger problems.

Favorite character: Cyril, the dog.

**gpackin** · January 12th, 2007, 08:38 AM

This is exactly why I decided to participate in this book club. This book is not the type of book I would generally decide to read. I was pleasantly surprised with it, I enjoyed it very much. Then again it wasn't all that long ago that I would never have thought to read science fiction, I was much more into the military and spy books as well as history.

I have never read anything that could be considered a Victorian Comedy, but I've read plenty of SciFi and Mystery. I found that the combination of the three worked beautifully and made for a very enjoyable read. I think that the addition of characters with over the top personalities such as Prof. Peddick and others helped to change my view of what stories about the Victorian era could be. In my mind I thought Victorian meant proper and humorless, but I really don't know anything about the period so I guess I'm really just ignorant about the subject.

I found the concept of time travel in this book to be as good or better than any other. Again, this is not a subject I have read much about but I always find it intriguing, especially when you try to wrap you brain around some of the paradoxes that can be introduced. As much as I enjoy hard science fiction, I thought it was a good move to leave the technology of time travel out of the book. What I mean is sometimes it is enough to now that something is possible without needing to know all the scientific or engineering details of why.

As far as the ending of the story I have no complaints. I found that it was fitting with the story that the characters had been trying fix a problem that they did not need to, but if that was apparent earlier much would be lost from the story. It also seems that if Connie Willis wanted to she could have an other good story spun from the ending of this one.

To wrap up, I completely enjoyed this book. I will add some of her other works to my list of books I want to read. I will start with Doomsday Book, even though I understand that it is a bit more serious.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that after the trip to Coventry I too was thinking that It was the butler . I remember thinking "I wonder what his last name is?".

**ArthurFrayn** · January 24th, 2007, 12:47 PM

I really enjoy the Victorian comedy of errors, and this was very satisfying on that level.

I like GK Chesterton and Jerome K Jerome just fine, but as a pastiche I'm
not finding this quite as entertaining as anything I've read by either author. In fact I'm on page 136 and I'm finding the events and her attempts at humor as tedious as a time travel episode of My Favorite Martian. Does it get any better or should I be giddy with delight already, and if not, should I just pack it in?

**LordBalthazar** · January 24th, 2007, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by ArthurFrayn

I like GK Chesterton and Jerome K Jerome just fine, but as a pastiche I'm
not finding this quite as entertaining as anything I've read by either author. In fact I'm on page 136 and I'm finding the events and her attempts at humor as tedious as a time travel episode of My Favorite Martian. Does it get any better or should I be giddy with delight already, and if not, should I just pack it in?

Sir! Lower your reading material and step away from the book! Step away from the book, sir!

**ArthurFrayn** · January 24th, 2007, 10:49 PM

Sir! Lower your reading material and step away from the book! Step away from the book, sir!

Done!!, by Gad!!

Thanks for your assist!

**LordBalthazar** · January 24th, 2007, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by ArthurFrayn

Done!!, by Gad!!

Thanks for your assist!

You're welcome. Though, for what it's worth, I loved it.

**ArthurFrayn** · January 25th, 2007, 09:23 AM

Well that's the reason I was asking -if you already were loving it at page 136, then it's a safe bet I'm not going to come to the same conclusion upon finishing the book.

**LordBalthazar** · January 25th, 2007, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by ArthurFrayn

Well that's the reason I was asking -if you already were loving it at page 136, then it's a safe bet I'm not going to come to the same conclusion upon finishing the book.

For me, the reverse is true. More often than not, I'll be loving a book at page 136 and it's usually around the back third that it falls apart for me.

**ArthurFrayn** · January 25th, 2007, 01:01 PM

So we're left with the question then: does this book pick up after, say, page 150? 200?

**Erfael** · January 25th, 2007, 01:37 PM

Arthur,

As to whether it picks up after a certain point, it's hard to say. It doesn't really change tack at any point, but I did find that as I went through I did hit a point where I just had to keep reading. The first ??? pages were pages I had to get through, but then the rest of it read itself, if that makes any sense. And I put "???" because I just can't remember at what point it took off for me (it's been a month since I read it). But at some point it went from a ho-hum, not bad book, to something I really quite enjoyed, but it wasn't that way from the start. Not sure if any of that helps. Reading and what we each like is so personal and individual that it's hard to really help you on this one. All I can say is I enjoyed it, but it wasn't, as you put it, giddy happiness from page 1.

**LordBalthazar** · January 25th, 2007, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by ArthurFrayn

So we're left with the question then: does this book pick up after, say, page 150? 200?

It didn't take me long to get into the book. But if you're not enjoying it 136 pages in, then I'd wager you won't be enjoying it 336 pages in.

**ArthurFrayn** · January 26th, 2007, 08:59 AM

Well, thanks for responses, guys. I'll average out your opinions and read on a bit further, but wont feel bad if I bail out before I finish the book. The average 1 in 10 negative opinions on Amazon sum up how I'm feeling so far. It's just I had really,really high expectations of loving this book. I like light Victorian comedy and this isn't recreating it for me. I'll just forget about that and see if I can get into the story.
And above I meant PG Wodehouse (Life With Jeeves), not Chesterton. My bad.