October 07 BOTM: Armor by John Steakley

[Hobbit]

Discussion is now open on this book.

Armor to me is Heinlein's Starship Troopers revisited. I remember it as a composite between Starship Troopers and Joe Haldeman's Forever War, with Heinlein's ideas of army life added to Haldeman's characterisation and given a contemporary spin. I read Armor years before the film of Starship Troopers; I rather think the bugs there are similar to Steakley's vision of Future war.

What do you think?

Hobbit

[suciul]

I remember reading this book a long time ago and liking it a lot, but I have not reread it in a long time so I cannot say if it would hold up for me today. The strange hero Felix on which the book turned was well written as far as I remember.

What puzzled me is that the only other book I could find by Mr. Steakley was a book with a vampire hunting team (called Vampires) and nothing else...

[LordBalthazar]

Apparently, Steakley is a reclusive author - and not that prolific.

As for Armor - I loved it. Yes, shades of Starship Troopers and The Forever War - at least the first part of the book - yet still different enough owing to a very interesting protagonist, Felix. Going in, I assumed the book would focus mainly on battles and, yes, the armor itself, but was pleasantly surprised by the depth of the various characters - and thrown for a loop when the second part kicked in and I had not idea what connection, if any, it had to what I had just read. Loved the character of Jack Crow (Jack Sparrow anyone?) and I didn't see the revelation re: Lewis coming. One question I had (really more a point of clarification): When Kent (who was really the only character I thought lacked any real depth as he was more of a heroic caricature) punches out Felix and "saves him", how exactly does he save him? It's implied, but are we to assume that he essentially saved Felix from the seemingly endless treadmill of war, continually being sent back out again and again?

[Raule]

Just finished this book, and loved it, too. This is one of those books that I probably would not have picked up had it not been for the recommendations I read here. I'm glad I did. I thought it went beyond just being a ripping, good SF tale; I thought it was an all around gripping story that might appeal to others outside the genre (if you can get past certain preconceptions that invariably pop up when looking at that book cover). Besides the war scenario and harrowing battle scenes, there's a mystery here. Just who is Felix, really? Why did he enlist? What makes him the pessimistic, fatalist that he is? What makes him a survivor in spite of the odds and all that he feels? What eventually happened to him? How it comes together and plays out was very suspenseful.

I haven't read Starship Troopers, so I only have Haldeman's Forever War to compare this to. I think what differentiates this story is that we really zoom in on one particular individual's experience here. Oh, sure, we can infer criticisms about war, politics, or even society, but the real concern here is the individual psyche. We (and later Jack Crow and Holly Ware when they immerse themselves in the armor's record) are limited to what Felix sees and feels; we literally experience the war inside that suit with him and are therefore unable to see the wider, panoramic view of what may be going on. Haldeman's Forever War I think more directly addresses the broader implications of war, politics, team dynamics under stress, social reintegration, etc. Even with the Jack Crow subplot, you're still experiencing Felix's story - though you may not realize it at first. Jack's story just happens to converge with Felix's and it changes Jack's life. I liked Haldeman's Forever War, but I think I liked this novel even more. There are books that have important things to say about society and politics, or even the individual's place within the greater realm of events. This book doesn't get bogged down with that. It speaks to the concerns of the individual as they relate to the individual in a very fundamental and primal way. I really liked that about it.

I thought the puppy in the well allusion was quite apt, fighting to survive with no hope of a successful rescue. What to do? Watch it struggle or help it die? Why doesn't it just give up in the face of those odds? But I did wonder if others found that allusion too emotionally manipulative.

As for Nathan Kent. [nevermind... see post below]

My big question is this: In the end, Jack Crow, in spite of what logic tells him must have happened, wonders, are you out there Felix? Did you find yourself wishing that Felix survived or that he finally died and was at peace? Whatever your answer, I think it cuts to the heart of what this book is about.

Final summation: Great book that deserves recognition outside the genre.

[Raule]

Lord Balthazar, there was an earlier thread on Armor where a few posters discuss that scene where Kent saves Felix. I think they understood what was going on there better than I did on my first reading of it.


Just wanted to add re the Masao who tells Felix,

You are
What you do
When it counts.

I think is particularly interesting as it applies to Nathan Kent who finallly rises to the occasion to become something other than a symbol.

[ArthurFrayn]

Before this book club discussion turns into yet another uninterrupted love festival for this seriously flawed book, this is what I wrote about it some time ago after reading it:

I never,ever, hear this book criticized, and it's driving me nuts:


Armor's action scenes are all very well done, and it's certainly worth reading in that regard,but it's not a very well structured novel at all. It reads like a short novella stretched very unconvincingly to a novel of overlong length. The B story is a mess.

With regard to the book as character fiction :I don't find Felix a very convincing character. When it's revealed that he is royalty from a warrior planet running away from lost love, all the everyman aspects of the character that have been developed through the beginning of the book, are thrown out the window.
His final incarnation isn't very convincing either.

The business with the dog in the well is gratuitously, and supiciously, hideous. I completely understand the point the author is making, but considering that Felix is NOT just some hapless grunt f**k (he's royalty from a warrior planet ), the point doesn't really fit. He's not the loser with tremendous heart who doesn't know when to quit. He's a superman from the get-go; he's not made exceptional by his trials. His exceptional background makes him the only likely candidate to survive in the capacity that he does.


After hearing how awesome this book is almost nonstop for years, I was suprised just how dissappointing it turned out to be.
It may be a compelling read, but it's certainly not the serious examination of the subject that both Starship Troopers and The Forever War are.

**1/2 stars for me. I like action, but I need a cohesive story. This isn't it. And Felix is a cypher. I can't relate to his character, because he isn't one. He's whatever the author needs at the moment.


Always loved the cover though.

[Raule]

I agree with you, ArthurFrayn, Felix is not typical or ordinary made extraordinary by circumstance -- he's unique (even with his background and special ability to survive when others do not). But that was, for me, the appeal. He's a character who will not fade soon from my memory, and sometimes that is all I ask for.

This is one of those novels that I think can fall apart if you attempt to intellectualize it too much. I don't doubt that Starship Troopers (though I've never read it, but intend to now) and Forever War are a more serious treatment of the broader issues. But that's not the heart and soul of this book.

I was actually surprised by how much I liked it because generally speaking I'm not at all attracted to novels with an overdose of machismo. But... it had been a long time since I'd picked up a book with this much of an adrenaline charge, so I'm sure that factored into my initial reaction to it. There are some elements in this novel that I have criticized in other novels; for example, some annoying stereotypes and clichés. But I still felt Felix's story overrode those factors and I was able to enjoy it. It appealed to me on an emotional and instinctual level. Reason doesn't muddy its waters.

I'd like to go back to LordBalthazar's question about what did Nathan Kent save Felix from. I had to go back and re-read the scenes with the Masao and the final sequence where Lewis briefly tells Jack and Holly what happened (I read those scenes on separate days the first time around, so it took a 2nd reading for me to integrate the details in my head). Anyway...

Lewis clearly states that Fleet killed Nathan Kent. In my mind, one of two things would have happened if Felix had not escaped. Either the Guards would have taken him back to Golden where he would have been forced to resume his role and possibly become a figurehead (like Nathan), or Fleet would have forced him back into service. I did imagine, though it's never stated, that Nathan and Canada probably got curious enough about Felix to investigate who he might be. The military, after they discover their error, might also have been running their own due diligence. The open ended question then is how they might have used Felix once they understood that he is a Guardian from Golden and that he has a special ability to survive. What do you think the Masao's statement to Felix meant when he says, you can't die, you must be killed (I'm paraphrasing)? We can use our imaginations about that, but it is for me a tantalizing question left unanswered.

BTW -- I don't think we had enough responses to qualify for a lovefest, yet.

[ArthurFrayn]

I glad you enjoyed it. On a completely "getting lost in the story" kind of thing, I was into it at the beginning. As soon as it was revealed that he was royalty from a warrior planet running away from lost love -BOOP! Out I popped from the story, and I never got back in the same way again. And like I said, it undercuts the whole "grunts like us" thing that I think is the most important and interesting aspect of the novel.
And once you're pulled out of a story like that,you start to pick it apart on every level.

[LordBalthazar]

Like Raule, I found Felix a very interesting character and actually shared his frustration in bucking the seemingly insurmountable odds again and again. In fact, when the reveal came regarding his true identity, it really came more as a pleasant surprise for me because up to that point, I figured little more than crazy luck figured into his ability to survive to that point. I found the character interesting which was for me a wonderful change of pace given the number of scifi books that skimp on character in favor of blow-your-socks-off concepts.

While I agree that it's atypically structured and even a little confusing at first, I thought the novel's three-part structure held together well given the common Felix/armor through-line, particularly when it is revealed that he has been in our midst all along.

Arthur, agree with you regarding the dog in the well parallel which felt on the nose and manipulative to me. But I'm not sure why you consider the B story a mess.