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  1. #136
    Registered User theonefirestorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pennywise86 View Post
    I don't know, I think it'd be quite interesting to see what the Joker's childhood was like. I think a good villain should have clear motives for their actions. No one's evil for the sake of being evil.
    Yes but if it's in their nature Demons, goblins, etc then there doesn't need to be a explanation as for why they are evil.

    As for a Villain having a hobby I got it from this article How To Make My Villain 3 Dimensional

    Give the villain some balance. There is the old cliche that even Nazi concentration camp killers loved their children. There are a few truly evil people in the world, but most bad people have humanising elements. Maybe they like classical music, which is a sign of culture, art appreciation and education. Maybe they care for their dog, or their Mum while on a murdering spree. This balance is where I am struggling at the moment. I donít want to have the abused childhood as a reason for violence, although it is based on truth in the real world.

    http://www.thecreativepenn.com/2010/...3-dimensional/

  2. #137
    Registered User Scorpion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theonefirestorm View Post

    Give the villain some balance. There is the old cliche that even Nazi concentration camp killers loved their children. There are a few truly evil people in the world, but most bad people have humanising elements. Maybe they like classical music, which is a sign of culture, art appreciation and education. Maybe they care for their dog, or their Mum while on a murdering spree. This balance is where I am struggling at the moment. I donít want to have the abused childhood as a reason for violence, although it is based on truth in the real world.

    http://www.thecreativepenn.com/2010/...3-dimensional/

    I think in order to go on a killing spree the psyche of that individual must have serious issues. Usually psychopathy or sociopathy, which means a complete lack of empathy for other people and absolutely no guilt, remorse or regret. It's highly unlikely that they would genuinely care for another person while murdering others, as they simply can't. Evil doesn't need to stem from a bad childhood; it can come from genetics. People of the Lie by Scott Peck is quite interesting if you want to read more about human evil, what it might be, where it might come from, and how one might treat it.

  3. #138
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    More to the point, in fantasy and horror stories, you aren't necessarily dealing with human evil. A demon doesn't have kids and wouldn't necessarily care about them if it did. Soul-stealing shadow creatures may have consciousnesses but not hobbies. A god figure may be the abstract personification of bloodlust, etc. This isn't either good or bad, just likely to be either interesting to some readers or not interesting.

  4. #139
    Personally i always thought it was more interesting to know the why and the how of "evil" rather then "its evil. kill it/him/her"

    Some consider Adolf Hitler to be the greatest evil we have ever seen. One of his friends was interviewed after the war and she said that when she asked him how he could justify the holocaust, (paraphrased) he said that because he lost so many Aryans everyday in battle, that he needed to even up the numbers so the racial mix did not get skewed. Most of the quintessential evil in some of the fantasy novels i have read were not that twisted.

    We should be able to observe their reasoning, how ever twisted or dark it may be, or may not be.

  5. #140
    Registered User theonefirestorm's Avatar
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    http://deconstructingcomics.com/?p=1459

    This podcast talks about what makes a good villain.

  6. #141
    Registered User theonefirestorm's Avatar
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    A scene that shows they are human.

  7. #142
    If they are human, just let them be. Humans are evil enough.
    If you go for a special monster-type, then make it interesting or relatable.
    Igor

  8. #143
    Registered User theonefirestorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor View Post
    If they are human, just let them be. Humans are evil enough.
    If you go for a special monster-type, then make it interesting or relatable.
    Igor
    So for example for monsters they still have fears that other humans have.
    A monster afraid of heights, snakes, spiders, etc.
    A monster that has a sweet tooth, plays a instrument, has a pet, etc.

    Quotes that you still remember from them.

  9. #144
    Not necessarily identical, but similar.
    Something you can translate to your human experience.
    Igor

  10. #145
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    Great question.

    I think one thing that makes a good villain is the conviction in their cause. In-spite of how crazy and evil the character is to the reader or viewer, when the justification for what they want to do actually makes sense in a twisted way, I think that exponentially gives every act they do more evil. Because they are determined and I think we can relate to that. We can see the dark side in ourselves through some of the best villains and what we would be without the moral and social constraints that we live under.

  11. #146
    We Read for Light Window Bar's Avatar
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    "What makes a good villain for writing?"

    My old Commodore 128 (late 80's) certainly qualified.

  12. #147
    The really best answer to the question of your thread is to first answer another question.

    Who am I writing this for?

    What demographics are you after?


    While a shades of gray villain is more profound and interesting to an older group, the video game generation prefers totally evil villains with little or no journey to become evil.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFreshPenOfTO View Post
    Great question.

    I think one thing that makes a good villain is the conviction in their cause. In-spite of how crazy and evil the character is to the reader or viewer, when the justification for what they want to do actually makes sense in a twisted way, I think that exponentially gives every act they do more evil. Because they are determined and I think we can relate to that. We can see the dark side in ourselves through some of the best villains and what we would be without the moral and social constraints that we live under.
    Absolutely. Recently watched Titus Andronicus and Aaron the Moor is up there with the worst of them. He openly wishes that he had committed another ten thousand evil deeds as well as repented of any good one that he had done. Revenge has no end for some people. On the other hand he was prepared to sacrifice himself for his son trsuting in the goodness of Lucius not to top the little chappie when all is said and done.

    Rumour has it that he is been reincarnated by Disney for the next Stars Wars movie. He is certainly one fo the Dark Side.

  14. #149
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    I agree. "Champagne" villains are my favorites too. They have something cool about them. A desirable trait. Hans Gruber from Die Hard is a great example. I also love Destro, Storm Shadow and Zartan from G.I. Joe. I believe 80's cartoons have a good blue print for making this type of villain.

  15. #150
    Is Winter Coming? R.J.'s Avatar
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    Been reading through this thread. Quite interesting. Made me realize I've never written an out-and-out villain (that I can remember at any rate). I usually just write characters and they are either relatable/likable or not. I think this could be due to me personally finding "good vs evil" old-fashioned, based on mythology and religion; mythilion if you will. As Pinhead once said it, "There is no good or evil...just flesh." Okay that's a bit harsh, but instead of good/evil there's a scale of morals I'd rather operate along. But maybe it is time to go all the way and create a truly nasty character. I'm thinking to make that a priority in the Nov-Dec short story I'm working on. Maybe.. anyway, lots of food for thought here, keep it up.

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