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Thread: The Gathering Storm - Wheel of Time Book 12 Official Discussion SPOILERS

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    \m/ BEER \m/ Moderator Rob B's Avatar
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    The Gathering Storm - Wheel of Time Book 12 Official Discussion SPOILERS

    This is THE official SPOILER thread to discuss your reaction to The Gathering Storm by Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson, the 12th book in The Wheel of Time. We realize some people are faster readers than others and as such, people may finish the book and post here before others have had a chance to acquire and read the book.

    We also realize people DON'T want to be spoiled. That is, some folks may want to pop into the thread just to see the reactions the book elicits in people rather than the fate of certain characters.

    While the other thread we created for discussion of the book is spoiler free, this is the thread where you can get into the nitty-gritty details of specific events in the books. For example, feel free to tell us that Rand grows a tail, wings and a third eye if those events happen in the book. However, for the first few weeks, you may want to utilize spoiler tags your post just to be safe. text as such:

    Opening spoiler tag:[ SPOILER]

    closing Spoiler tag: [ /SPOILER]

    The only difference being that you should close up the space between the [ and the S in the opener and the [ and the / in the closing tags.

    Spoiler:

    Darth Vader is LUKE's father!!!




    Also, please be aware that if you sign up for e-mail notifications, the vBulletin code/spoiler tag will NOT translate into the e-mail.

    Again, we want to encourage people to discuss the book at their heart's content while also not damaging the reading experience for others, which is why we set up the two threads for the book. We may eventually merge the two threads after a few months have passed.

    One of the mods will come back here on the 27th and open up the thread for discussion. Until then it will be closed.

    SO,
    BE WARNED.
    AND BE PREPARED.
    TO BE SPOILED!

  2. #2
    \m/ BEER \m/ Moderator Rob B's Avatar
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    Let the discussions...BEGIN!

  3. #3
    Hrmm...since it's hard to tell whether thematic discussions are "spoilers" or not, I guess I'll post the entirety of my long review in spoiler tags, just to be safe.

    Spoiler:
    The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose around the alabaster spire known as the White Tower. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.


    The wind twisted around the magnificent Tower, brushing perfectly fitted stones and flapping majestic banners. The structure was somehow both graceful and powerful at the same time; a metaphor, perhaps, for those who had inhabited it for over three thousand years. Few looking upon the Tower would guess that at its heart, it had been both broken and corrupted. Separately. (p. 49)


    Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time series has been one of the most sprawling, character-intensive epic fantasies of the past twenty years. Spanning millions of words, this series, now reaching its twelfth volume out of a planned fourteen, has spawned dozens of fansites over the years, as well as engendering heated debates over matters ranging from how well (or not) the author managed to portray female characters to questions of character identities and motivations to even a fictional murder-mystery that still remains unresolved seven volumes after its occurrence. Some view passages, such as the (in)famous "wind passage" that opens the first chapter of each book, as being hallmarks of a great talent. Others read the same lines and wonder how the story ever managed to become even more turgid and bloated than the previous volume.

    Debates such as these point to some intrinsic quality of the series that barely allows for there to be a middle ground. There is something for almost everyone, depending if one likes an action/adventure tale, political intrigue, social commentary, or even elements of a puzzle novel. Sometimes, there is too much of it all, and readers who enjoyed the earlier volumes might end up finding the past few volumes to be rather plodding, tedious affairs. After reading the eighth and ninth volumes, The Path of Daggers and Winter's Heart, I found myself going years before even thinking of picking up the tenth volume, Crossroads of Twilight, which was perhaps the most difficult book to complete reading of them all at the time.

    But then a tragic event happened. Jim Rigney, the person behind the Robert Jordan pseudonym, contracted a rare blood disorder, amyloidosis. Rigney spent the final eighteen months of his life battling the disease, while attempting to complete the conclusion to the series. Sadly, he succumbed to the disease on September 16, 2007. Fans were devastated, as for nearly three months, the matter of who would complete the series, or even if the series would be completed, was up in the air. Toward the end of the year, Rigney's wife, Harriet McDougal, announced that she had chosen young author Brandon Sanderson, whose work to date had been three adult fantasies (Elantris and the first two Mistborn novels) and two young adult novels. From the end of 2007 to now, Wheel of Time fans have been probing for information, trying to decide if Sanderson was the "right" choice, if he would manage to capture Jordan's narrative "voice," warts and all, and if the conclusion (now announced to comprise of three volumes spread out over three years) would be worthy of the time invested in the series.

    Depending on what you enjoy most about the series, Sanderson largely succeeds in this thankless task. For those wanting to know if Sanderson would manage to capture the essence of the late Jordan's writing style or if his passages would integrate well with the ones Jordan had completed before his death, it will be difficult for most of the time to discern which author wrote which passage. Sanderson's interpretations of the two main characters of this story, Rand al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn, and Egwene al'Vere, the rebel Amyrlin, are almost pitch-perfect. What I found interesting about Sanderson's treatment of the characters is just how well they are integrated with Jordan's earlier development of them.

    Rand in particular has a very good character development arc in The Gathering Storm. Hurting from his myriad mental, emotional, and physical wounds, he is a near-complete wreck. Increasingly paranoid and worried that he is not "hard enough" to face the Dark One in the prophesied Last Battle, Rand's character displays many traits in common with soldiers suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder during the Vietnam War. This is no accident, as before his death, Rigney discussed how he himself faced a decision in Vietnam if he was to desensitize himself to the horrors happening around him or if he would fight to keep from becoming a sociopathic killer. Rand's development from the first chapter, "Tears from Steel," to the last, "Just Another Man," is one of the more intriguing in the entire series. It is perhaps for me the most personal of all the mini-plots in this mammoth series and the authors do such a good job of showing Rand's descent into darkness, both figurative and literal, as well as setting up the decision he makes at the end of this book that is in many ways as important thematically as the cleansing of saidin was in Winter's Heart.

    Paralleling Rand's development and his struggles to integrate his past and present memories is that of his childhood sweetheart, Egwene. Captured at the end of Crossroads of Twilight and forced to undergo numerous punishments at the hand of her rival for the head of the Aes Sedai organization, Elaida, Egwene presents a clear contrast to Rand's choices early in the novel. Instead of trying to harden herself by means of shutting out friends and even one's own emotions, Egwene comes to accept her situation, viewing matters such as hurt and grief not as something to avoid or to manipulate, but rather as things to accept and to use to improve one's self. This change from the rather ambitious, self-righteous girl of the earlier volumes into a leader who realizes the importance behind the very name of "Aes Sedai," stands in sharp opposition to that of Elaida, as the authors go to great lengths to make clear in the second chapter, "The Nature of Pain."

    There are even more parallels between the characters along the lines of examining the choices people make in regards to themselves and others. It is debatable whether or not Jordan would have been quite as direct as the final draft came to be, but several times over the course of the novel, characters ranging from the two mentioned above, Perrin, Mat, and members of the Black Ajah and the Forsaken are shown via the choices they have made. The selflessness of one clashes with the self-centered greed of another. The desire to be viewed as being important contrasts with one who humbles herself, placing her own soul in risk of eternal perdition so the machinations of others can be revealed to others. These parallels, which were either lacking or were not adroitly done in the past several volumes, helped make The Gathering Storm one of the better WoT volumes I have read in the past twelve years.

    Despite this, there were several problems that I had with the text. Although Sanderson eschewed the character "blocks" that Jordan used in the past few volumes, there were times that the pacing of the plot still suffered. While Rand and Egwene's subplots were developed well and each concluded within narrative minutes of one another, Perrin and Mat's were underdeveloped and appear to be days or even weeks behind the first two. In addition, their characters were not as well developed as were Rand's and Egwene's. Perhaps this is in part due to the limited number of chapters each appears, but Mat's chapters, despite a near-horrific chapter occurring in a backwoods town near the kingdom of Andor, felt rather sketchy, as if Sanderson had not decided what to do with the character in the allotted space. Perrin's arc was rather anti-climatic and it is hard to guess where he will be heading in the next volume. Despite the near-certain protests from fans of those characters, The Gathering Storm might have been better served if those arcs had been withheld until the next volume, even though that alternative certainly would have risked backlash from those burned by the eighth and tenth volumes of the series.

    The pacing was mostly good, although there were times that events long foretold in the series unfolded so quickly that there was a sense of a letdown. But perhaps reader expectations had been built up too much from the narrative molehills, so it is hard to say particularly which events (ranging from what occurred outside a castle in Arad Doman to the use of a certain item discovered in The Shadow Rising) were done too hastily and which events were done purposely at such a breakneck pace in order to set up future character development. For myself, the two events I allude to above served to develop Rand's character in ways that were at once surprising and logical in hindsight (especially as it relates to how he parallels Moridin more and more now in thought and action). But others might view these scenes differently, wishing that Sanderson had spent more time setting up the events so that there would be a stronger emotional reaction. There is something to be said for this argument, but I suspect if there had been further development of these two set scenes, the pace of the narrative would have slowed to the near-glacial creep of the previous novels.

    Prose is something I value highly in a novel. The previous eleven volumes of the WoT series were uneven to me, as powerful scenes would be offset by descriptions of clothing, of how to wash silk, and even lengthy scenes set in a bathtub. Sanderson's prose in his novels tends to be rather too sparse at times, attempting to be too "invisible" when the occasional use of more florid language might serve to vary the prose enough to make it more interesting. Thankfully, for most of The Gathering Storm, Sanderson managed to achieve a happy medium between his own preferred style and that employed by Jordan. There are places where the narrative still feels clunky or choppy, but these are fewer than what I recall being present in Sanderson's own work. The too-long descriptions of places and dress still occur on occasion, but thankfully they are reduced. The male characters' self-conscious thoughts about their abilities with women is also much reduced, doubtless to the delight of numerous readers. While certainly not written in a style that would lend itself to being studied by writing students, the prose here was at least acceptable and at several times, very well-written.

    The Gathering Storm certainly is not an ideal beginning place for readers curious about the Wheel of Time universe, but for those who were disenchanted by the perceived lack of plot and character development over the past few volumes, it certainly is one of the faster-paced, better-written volumes. While I would not consider it to be among the best works released in 2009, it certainly is one of the best epic fantasies that I have read. The Wheel continues to turn and thankfully it appears to be cranking a bit faster and toward a more intriguing conclusion than I had suspected when I had suspended my reading of the series back in 2000. Highly recommended for WoT fans and recommended for those who might have become disillusioned by the previous four volumes.

  4. #4
    Omnibus Prime Moderator PeterWilliam's Avatar
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    I've not purchased it yet, but I couldn't wait to read about it. Great review by Larry.

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    So, for someone who gave up on the books a few volumes back but is still interested in seeing what happens... what happens?

  6. #6
    Nobody in Particular kcf's Avatar
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    I had a pretty similar reaction to Larry - though I'm much more of a fanboy and our reviews do read a bit differently.

  7. #7
    I wasn't expecting the events of Chapter 50 to happen until Book 14. In fact, the very last page of that chapter (p.760) is pretty much what I thought the last scene of the entire series might be like.

  8. #8
    Registered User Werthead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEvilKing View Post
    So, for someone who gave up on the books a few volumes back but is still interested in seeing what happens... what happens?
    In general terms:

    Spoiler:
    The White Tower is reunited.
    Two-thirds of the Black Ajah are destroyed and the rest forced to flee.
    Rand discovers that the Forsaken can resurrect after death.
    Rand kills Graendal and Semirhage with an absolute ton of balefire to prevent that happening to them.
    Rand and Lews Therin 'integrate' and his halt towards madness stops in the nick of time (he nearly destroys Ebou Dar with balefire after Tuon rejects his alliance proposal).
    Faile kills Masema.
    The Seanchan leash Elaida.
    Verin commits suicide after exposing the members of the Black Ajah, including herself.
    The prophecy about Rand and the beggar's staff is fulfilled: he disguises himself as a beggar in Ebou Dar.
    Rand destroys the Choedan Kal after realising their power is too great for humanity to wield.
    Cadsuane 'restores' Rand's humanity by reuniting him with his father.
    Vast hordes of Trollocs are spotted in the Blight, but have not attacked yet.
    The Aiel are getting seriously cheesed off with Rand's rule, especially when he advocates an alliance with the Seanchan after they learn about the 400 Wise Ones leashed at Malden.
    Mat now has the plans for cannons and is in Caemlyn getting a prototype built. No Tower of Ghenjei mission yet.
    Perrin has met Galad, but slightly confusingly after the events of his story in this book (Rand sees them together in one of his visions).

  9. #9
    Lord of the Wild Hunt Mithfânion's Avatar
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    That sounds fairly eventful actually. Is it known on which characters the next book will focus most of it's attention, in the sense that in this one I hear Rand & Egwene get the lionshare of attention of the original principal cast.

  10. #10
    Registered User Werthead's Avatar
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    Yeah, it isn't quite the same as an AFFC/ADWD split, but there is that feel to it.

    Spoiler:
    So Mat and Perrin only have a small presence in The Gathering Storm whilst Elayne and Mazrim Taim do not appear at all, whilst the story focuses on Rand and Egwene.

    Conversely, I expect Towers of Midnight to feature moderate appearances by Rand and Egwene (they both have a few more things to do before the Last Battle, but not much) and focus much more heavily on Mat. There seems to be more to go with Elayne and Perrin, but again I'm not sure if there's a huge amount more to do. I thus expect the book to focus mainly on Mat, his mission to the Tower of Ghenjei and the conclusion of the Seanchan arc, whilst the situation with the Asha'man at the Black Tower will probably be the other major plot thread resolved, and thus those are the two towers or 'Towers of Midnight' of the title

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    It does sound pretty cool and seems like a lot happens. I'm half tempted to go out and buy it, thus skipping the previous 4 or so books in the series. I don't think you guys need to be using spoiler text in this thread btw.

  12. #12
    Registered User Werthead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEvilKing View Post
    It does sound pretty cool and seems like a lot happens. I'm half tempted to go out and buy it, thus skipping the previous 4 or so books in the series. I don't think you guys need to be using spoiler text in this thread btw.
    According to the OP, yes, we do

  13. #13
    \m/ BEER \m/ Moderator Rob B's Avatar
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    I strongly encouraged people to use spoilers and I'm very pleased people have used them.

    I wouldn't mind seeing them used for longer than the first couple of weeks I indicated. If for nothing else, the mods should be monitoring all the threads and some of us might not want to be spoiled.

    Besides, it really isn't too tough to add spoilers and scroll over them, is it? (No sarcasm intended.)

  14. #14
    Spoiler:
    First off, I just gotta say that Taim wasn't entirely ignored in this book. He didn't appear, but we did get some news. The group that was sent to bond Asha'man Warders consisted of basically everyone who ever swore to Egwene, and despite weeks having gone by, and Traveling being available to them. . . none of them have reported back. It seems letting the Lord of Chaos rule wasn't enough for Taim.

    As for what's to come, I think there's quite a bit more to go for Perrin, actually; the difference between Mat and him is that Mat's problems are all external threats to be conquered, and Perrin's are all internal or emotional conflicts. While Mat is running off to the Tower of Ghenjei with a Gholam and blackpowder technology in tow, Perrin has an internal struggle to conquer not so dissimilar from what Rand himself dealt with in this book. Merging his inner wolf with his human self isn't going to be an easy thing, and the fact that it takes place in the "wolf dream" could cause it to factor in any number of other plot points; I expect to see Slayer, at the very least. With a kill order out on him and Mat, Slayer better target someone!

    In the meantime, Perrin also has to juggle Berelain, his new alliance with Ghealdan, Galad and his Whitecloaks, Morgase revealing her true identity, Bornhald's enmity for him. . . he has about a dozen interpersonal conflicts that have been building for 5 or more books each, some from the very FIRST book, to resolve during his time slot.

    As for Elayne. . . everyone is forgetting one very important thing. She is going to be HUGE in the next book, and the title tells us exactly why. The Black Tower is in Andor, not far from Caemlyn if I remember correctly. Whatever happens there, she will be involved. She also has to rein in the noble family that took its army and left when she was named Queen, deal with Mat and the foreign army he'll be teleporting to her city, and hopefully have meetings with Thom, Morgase, Galad, Gawyn, and the rest of her little family circle.

    As for Mat. . . I feel sorry for the guy. XD I love how Sanderson write Talmanes, even if the guy is a little bit different than how he used to be, but he's funnier, even if at Mat's expense. He's got the Gholam, the Tower of Ghenjei, Verin's mysterious last will and testament, and Elayne to deal with. And hopefully Tuon, although they might he might not get time to meet "Fortuona" until the last book, given all that he already has to do.

    And of course, there's Lan, who also didn't appear in this book. I fully expect to at least see him grow his army on his march to Tarwin's Gap over the course of the next novel.

    So yeah, even ignoring curveballs thrown by the Forsaken, we've still got a pretty huge lineup for the next book even with Rand, the Aes Sedai, and the Seanchan out of the way. And I can't wait.

  15. #15
    I totally loved it. I used to be a major WoT fanboy 6-7 years ago, but recently have pretty much given up hope on the series given how bad the last volumes were. I even hesitated whether to buy this one at all, but I am sure glad I did.

    What I loved the most was that I started really caring about the major characters again. it's been a long time since rand had made feel anyting different from annoyance and boredom, but here there were about 5 scenes with him which affected me deeply on an emotional level. I even liked Egwene and cared about her. In general, the characters felt much more real and fully fleshed than in the last 5-6 volumes.

    The plot is also really well developed. I remeber reading pat's preliminary review a few days before i got it, and getting worried about it, he wrote something how it's similar in pace to Path of daggers or Winter's Heart. Thanfully I thought exactly the opposite - an awful lot of important stuff happens here, and pretty much nothing feels rushed except few small details.
    Spoiler:
    Two Forcaken are balefired, The tower is united again, Rand almost killed Min and channeled the true Power, he met with Ishamael, Elaida is captured, the Black Ajah is nearly exterminated, Verin's revelations and plenty more - by my reckoning this is about as much important stuff as has happened in the last 5 books before, if not more

    But as usual, the quantity is less important than the quality and here I have no complaints. I hated the rushed plot resolutions in Knife of Dreams, but here nothing seems forced or rushed. it's all carefully built up and concluded well, without streching plausability too much. Plenty of really emotionally affecting scenes here, again unlike the previous 5 volumes, where for me there were very few of those.

    All in all, this could well be my favourite WoT book, certainly in my personal Top 3 and the best thing published in the series in the last 15 yars or so. Kudos to Sanderson for doing what i thought impossible and of course for Jordan, he sure had his flaws as a writer, but the way here we see things foreshaowed as early as books 2 and 3 develop perfectly here and reaching thier surprising, yet logical conclusion, deserves a lot of respect.

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