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  1. #271
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    When I was younger, I was really into Terry Goodkind's books.

    However, I actually failed to finish reading the series. I felt like his work was getting violent for the sake of showing gratuitous violence, and it started to repeat itself in terms of structure and theme. Characters became hollow excuses for Goodkind to expound upon his personal philosophy, instead of living people that I cared about.

    He spent less time working on good prose and immersing us in a world, than just exposing us to a series of increasingly hateful villains, hollow heroes, and claiming that this paper, black and white world was an accurate allegory for our own.

    Reading his books became unpleasant, so I stopped. I have nothing against him personally, but his writing leaves me cold, for some reason.

    [Edited for grammar]

  2. #272
    Registered User HeclaBull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mshnd06 View Post
    Wasn't there a rumor circulating some time ago that he just outlines/dictates into a tape recorder and then has some poor interns fill in the actual writing? I seem to remember hearing something like that. I'm somewhat dubious but it would be hilarious if true.
    James Patterson is the master of this technique.

  3. #273
    MJ Dusseault Spears&Buckler's Avatar
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mshnd06
    Wasn't there a rumor circulating some time ago that he just outlines/dictates into a tape recorder and then has some poor interns fill in the actual writing? I seem to remember hearing something like that. I'm somewhat dubious but it would be hilarious if true.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeclaBull View Post
    James Patterson is the master of this technique.
    Sorry to go off-topic, but I am actually quite shocked to hear that this happens. Is this a fairly common practice? Man I hope not because if I find out any writers I am fond of do this I'll be severely disappointed.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiddler View Post
    All the detractors here - have any of you written even one paragraph that's sold anywhere near what Goodkind has?
    His success is obvious. All your whining about his writing is not going to change that fact.
    Well then! How about we shut down this forum because if we are not allowed to discuss or dislike authors who have sold more books/texts than we have, Im not really sure a forum is at all necessary. And that also means that Im not allowed to discuss my dislike for Stephanie Meyer or the myriad of really not that great Swedish crime novelists! Wow, my life really turned around today...

    A little elaboration on what you were thinking when you wrote this would be much appreciated.

  5. #275
    You know, I always shake my head in disgust at all the people who rag on and on and on and on about an author who is obviously a very successful one.
    Hey, if you don't like his books, then don't read them
    If you don't like to read this stuff than don't read the thread. the threads title is whats so bad about goodkind. we're explaining why its bad.

    also some people enjoy ragging on and on and on. better than being bored. if you don't like it don't read it.

    How do you come to the opinion that he's such a bad author if you haven't read his books
    ?

    I've read up to faith. I'm not going to bother giving a review. so just read this. it'll give you all the info you need to know.

    http://eragon-sporkings.wikispaces.c...f+Truth+Sporks

  6. #276
    Heritage, Not Hate DennisC's Avatar
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    I read one of Terry's books and it wasn't bad. It wasn't riveting, mind you, but it certainly wasn't bad.

  7. #277
    Heritage, Not Hate DennisC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by assasin View Post
    also some people enjoy ragging on and on and on. better than being bored. if you don't like it don't read it.
    I wonder why some are like that. I went on a tirade about Tolkien recently. I think it may be that people grab a book without knowing if they are really going to like it or not and then they are mad about the time wasted reading it.

    I personally like trying new authors and probably 50% of my reading is on authors I have not read before.

  8. #278
    I hate his superficial black and white philosophy. He is an ideological fanatic, and fanatics don't write good fantasy. They lack the empathy and creativity. Their protagonists are artificial cardboard characters that I can't identify with and don't care about.
    Last edited by Jo Smith; April 4th, 2012 at 06:16 PM.

  9. #279
    Heritage, Not Hate DennisC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Smith View Post
    I hate his superficial black and white philosophy. He is an ideological fanatic, and fanatics don't write good fantasy. They lack the empathy and creativity. Their protagonists are artificial cardboard characters that I can't identify with and don't care about.
    I read Pillars of Creation - another instance of me starting a series in the middle. I haven't read any of the others.

    It was not a BAD read. The writing style was agreeable and early on I felt empathy for Jennsen. But the whole King's torturers in red leather thing threw me off.

    However I can see your point about his clear cut lines between good and evil. But he seems to pull it off decently. As I said elsewhere I think he gets a C+ but thats it.

  10. #280
    Damn fool idealist DailyRich's Avatar
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    "Oh yeah? Well have best-selling book have you written?" is one the worst defenses you can mount. As if we don't have the right to find something lacking if we haven't produced something just as successful. Congratulations, you've just eliminated all critical thought about everything. "This steak is terrible." "Oh yeah? Where's your restaurant?" "Ugh, that guy can't hit." "Oh yeah? What major league team did you play for?" It's ridiculous. Counter the arguments instead of just tossing out sales numbers to dismiss them.

  11. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by DailyRich View Post
    "Oh yeah? Well have best-selling book have you written?" is one the worst defenses you can mount. As if we don't have the right to find something lacking if we haven't produced something just as successful. Congratulations, you've just eliminated all critical thought about everything. "This steak is terrible." "Oh yeah? Where's your restaurant?" "Ugh, that guy can't hit." "Oh yeah? What major league team did you play for?" It's ridiculous. Counter the arguments instead of just tossing out sales numbers to dismiss them.

    Hear!! Hear!! Excellent post. I for one thought the whole point of forums like this was for fans of fantasy literature to discuss their likes and dislikes. Personally, I don't know anything about Goodkind's political views or his ideological ramblings. He lost me only a few chapters into his first book when he attempted a hopelessly juvenile joke about disappearing penises.

    I just honestly think his writing is bad, his characters are shallow, his plots are thin and his attempts at humor are painfully, embarrassingly feeble. But since I haven't written a best seller yet, I've kept all that to myself.

    Just kidding. Actually, I've told anyone who's asked that very thing.

    As a matter of fact, I would have loved to have made it to the parts in Goodkind's book where he started ranting like a furiously mad adult about politics. What I read (and I gave up about midway through book one) from him seemed to be targeted at readers twelve and under.

    I don't expect others to necessarily agree with me. This is just the personal opinion of one fan of fantasy literature.

  12. #282
    Heritage, Not Hate DennisC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DailyRich View Post
    "Oh yeah? Well have best-selling book have you written?" is one the worst defenses you can mount. As if we don't have the right to find something lacking if we haven't produced something just as successful. Congratulations, you've just eliminated all critical thought about everything. "This steak is terrible." "Oh yeah? Where's your restaurant?" "Ugh, that guy can't hit." "Oh yeah? What major league team did you play for?" It's ridiculous. Counter the arguments instead of just tossing out sales numbers to dismiss them.
    Well said, Sir.

    I dont know who you were arguing with, but when someones retorts with that comment, I agree, its ad hominem and pointless.

    "Your backhand needs work."
    "Well, what have you done with yours?"

    The argument just doesn't work.

    And high sales doesn't mean the book will appeal to everyone. Just that it has appealed to quite a few.

    By that measurement, much pornography is top notch.

  13. #283
    MMAniac911
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    His Books are Inspiring

    Maybe it depends on where you are in your personal life, what kind of belief system you have, if you like to question things or if you are willing to suspend disbelief. For myself, these are the most enjoyable books I have ever read, not only were they enjoyable, they were heartbreaking, depressing, exciting, riveting, and will make his readers run the whole spectrum of emotion.

    I have had people who read the book ask me things, nitpicky things that I bet everyone here who is bashing Terry Goodkind asks; well this doesn't make sense, that doesn't make sense. Most of the time I can clarify from info from the context of the world of the series or from info from past books, Goodkind doesn't waste too much time explaining trivialities, he assumes you can work it out and move on to the good stuff. After all this is fantasy, this is magic, you need to suspend a certain level of disbelief and you would think that most fantasy readers are capable of that.

    I have turned many people onto the book series and almost everyone has loved it. Maybe not as much as me but they read it to completion and for a 11 book series, that's a feat that only a great author can hope to accomplish. I have read or attempted to read most of the popular fantasy series from Tolkien to Terry Brooks and Robert Jordan. Sometimes I will get drawn in for a book or two and lose interest, maybe its the writing style or content or whatever, I wouldn't bash any of them, they are all great and accomplished and have armies of fans so they must be doing something right.

    I must admit that at one point I got a bit bored and put one of the books down for a few months but the awesome thing is when I picked it back up and read it to through it ended up being my favorite book, with the best message for me out of the entire book series.

    As for Goodkind himself, I read here that hes a jerk, hes stupid, hes this and that, well he gave me years of the best fantasy I have ever read and I don't care about other peoples perspective, I think that's all I can ask for. Oh and he just happened to personally sign some books for me, for free, and that's pretty cool.

    The bottom line is people in this thread are just judgmental. As a fan, I suggest you say screw these people, read the books make your own decision, after all your life is yours and yours alone, rise up and live it, that's the message that Terry Goodkind imbues on his readers and its a damn fine message if you ask me.

  14. #284
    Registered User Werthead's Avatar
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    The bottom line is people in this thread are just judgmental. As a fan, I suggest you say screw these people, read the books make your own decision, after all your life is yours and yours alone, rise up and live it, that's the message that Terry Goodkind imbues on his readers and its a damn fine message if you ask me.
    No. That's what Goodkind says his message is, but there is no evidence of that in the books. Instead his message is that the mass-murder of innocent civilians, even children, is okay if their government is corrupt. His message is that it is the role of women to be raped or almost-raped whenever jeopardy is required, and beyond that they exist solely to support their male partners. His message is that you can commit the basest of depraved and horrible crimes as long as you think they are justified.

    These books are (aside from being terribly-written, poorly-characterised and padded to a ludicrous degree with 70-page anti-Communist rants doubling as torture sequences) written from a position of a total moral vacuum and feature some deeply unpleasant sexism and racism. They are reprehensible on almost every level.

  15. #285
    Would be writer? Sure. Davis Ashura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werthead View Post
    No. That's what Goodkind says his message is, but there is no evidence of that in the books. Instead his message is that the mass-murder of innocent civilians, even children, is okay if their government is corrupt. His message is that it is the role of women to be raped or almost-raped whenever jeopardy is required, and beyond that they exist solely to support their male partners. His message is that you can commit the basest of depraved and horrible crimes as long as you think they are justified.

    These books are (aside from being terribly-written, poorly-characterised and padded to a ludicrous degree with 70-page anti-Communist rants doubling as torture sequences) written from a position of a total moral vacuum and feature some deeply unpleasant sexism and racism. They are reprehensible on almost every level.
    Clearly there must be some evidence of that message since it is one fans of his books state they find and love over and over again. In fact, that message is one they state can't be found in any other fantasy books. They claim it's why they love his books. Are they then liars? Or, are they delusional? Or must they secretly admire those fascist, reprehensible views? I think with the millions of readers Goodkind has, it would be odd to believe such a large segment of the western world admires mass murder.
    I read the first five books, and I have to say I enjoyed the first three quite a lot. I didn't like the last two, and I might feel differently about the first three as well now since it was ten-fifteen years ago that I last read any of his books. Thus, my tastes might have changed. Regardless, I do wonder what then to make of Scott Bakker's books, which also contain the same elements you find so objectionable about Goodkind. Are Bakker's books given a pass because they're better written, more interesting, and have richer characters (I would argue they don't have richer characters -more interesting but not richer characters - but agree with the first two sentiments)?
    Also, Scott has always struck me as easy-going and eminently likable, two conclusions hard to draw whenever reading a Goodkind interview. Do our kinder feelings toward Scott make us more generous about his true intentions with regards to the messages in his books? I think Scott would think this question a hoot because what I'm really asking is this: I know you didn't come out and say Goodkind advocates for mass murder, rape, sexism, and racism, but you strongly imply that he does so based on your interpretation of his books. How do we know that Scott, who as I said also features many of those same ugly themes in his words, doesn't think the same way? If we were to ask either men their views on the matter, they would both strongly deny any such advocacy. And yet we would believe Scott and not Goodkind? Why?

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