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  1. #1
    Witch of the Woods Miriamele's Avatar
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    Did anyone else not like Kushiel's Dart?

    Almost every review I have read for this book is positively glowing. Everyone says it's so "sophisticated", but personally, I thought it was dreadfully boring, nothing but political intrigue and long lists of names which I couldn't keep straight, and that S&M stuff I found really distasteful, call me old-fashioned. I just could not get interested in the story or the characters, and I stopped reading it about two-thirds of the way through. Is there anyone else out there who shares my dislike of this book? I'm merely curious.

  2. #2
    Lord of the Wild Hunt Mithfânion's Avatar
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    I've yet to read it Miriamele, but I am curious. I've heard a lot of buzz for this book. What I have understood though, is that the second book is weaker than the first. When I read it I'll let you know my thoughts.

  3. #3
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    I ordered this from the SFBC so if I ever get my books (been waiting about 5 weeks now!! ) then I'll read it!

  4. #4
    \m/ BEER \m/ Moderator Rob B's Avatar
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    I din't care for it either. Let me clarify: I enjoyed the first half or so of the book. Carey is a pretty good writer, I thought she incorporated the sexual aspect into the religious aspect quite well.

    However, after about the mid-way point, I simply stopped caring about the characters and what was going to happen. I particularily found the character of Jocelin very annoying.

    Perhaps I will try it again someday, but not for a while.

  5. #5
    Witch of the Woods Miriamele's Avatar
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    Yes I found the same thing, no matter how hard I tried I just could't care about the characters, or relate to them at all. It's true the religion Carey created is interesting, but it isn't enough to prop up a book with such a boring plot.

    I didn't try the second book but I imagine it's much the same.

  6. #6
    Guarded by the Moon Moderator Lani's Avatar
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    I'm finishing 'Kushiel's Dart' and I cannot agree with you. There are negative things about the book, but I would think it very far from being boring. I actually got so caught up in the book I missed my bus stop the other day. It does have a bit too much sex and especially S&M for my liking, but I thought that the book was really good otherwise. I really liked the way Carey wrote the world and culture though one can see a lot of references to myths and other existant cultures with only one letter added or changed. I really liked the character of Delaunay and Phedre was not all that bad. Isn't there anyone else who thought this book is good?

  7. #7
    A Fantasy Freak
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    I think the book is overhyped, but it had good moments to it as well. My main problems were that things dragged at times throughout the book, and also I didn't care that much for the characters. The thing I especially disliked were all the times where we were told " but much worse was to happen." and things like that. Once and a while, its ok, but this haapened throughout and I was annoyed by it. *l* ok, so that's not major. Anyway, I probably will read the sequel but am in no rush whatsoever. I do hear that there is very little Joscelyn in it, so if that is true, that is a plus. He annoyed me the most, I think.

  8. #8
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    I don't know why people go on about the S&M so much? It's not like there is heaps of it or that it's graphically described. It plays a small but important part of the overall story.

    I found nothing wrong with the books and found both quite enjoyable. Carey is a lot better than the average fantasy author.

    Mithfânion, the second book imo was just as good as the first. Perhaps a little more predictable but that would be my only fault with it.

  9. #9
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    I didn't find this book to be boring at all. I loved the intricate political manuverings and the unique religious system. I found the characters to be interesting and well created. I have read both Dart and Chosen and am looking forward to Avatar. As Caldazar stated, the S&M aspect of our main character's activities was well presented and not overly graphic or descriptive. In this case, the story was the main focus and the sex was just one element of the plot.

  10. #10
    Witch of the Woods Miriamele's Avatar
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    I don't know why people go on about the S&M so much? It's not like there is heaps of it or that it's graphically described. It plays a small but important part of the overall story.
    I don't think that anyone was "going on" about it. I and one other person just mentioned that it wasn't really our taste. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, right? If you don't enjoy reading scenes like that then you're probably not going to like the book very much, because there certainly is a lot of it and I'm not entirely convinced that it was all really necessary to the story.

    That having been said, the rest of the book I still found boring. I can't help it if I simply didn't like the characters and couldn't get into the book. It's just not my type of book.

  11. #11
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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, right?
    Umm silly question.

    IMO you were going on about it, and that it was a major part of the books which IMO it isn't. I have a right to voice my opinion just as you did without you saying that i'm against you having an opinion. Ofcourse you may disagree with me but heh thats just your opinion.

    So yeah silly question.

  12. #12
    \m/ BEER \m/ Moderator Rob B's Avatar
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    Phedra was basically a sexual servant/prostitute who did enjoy and was used for S&M. So while it may not be graphically described, it is an important part of the story and Phedra herself. Moreso, pain and endurance, I'd say are overriding themes in the book, and S&M is an illustration of pain and endurance.

  13. #13
    Witch of the Woods Miriamele's Avatar
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    Umm silly question. IMO you were going on about it, and that it was a major part of the books which IMO it isn't. I have a right to voice my opinion just as you did without you saying that i'm against you having an opinion. Ofcourse you may disagree with me but heh thats just your opinion
    Duh, it was a rhetorical question.

    Hey, I only meant that everyone will have a different opinion about a book like Kushiel's Dart, and no one is necessarily right or wrong. It's just a matter of taste. I just seem to have different tastes than you, which is fine, I respect your opinions and also I realize that there are some redeeming qualities in the book.

    But I still don't like it very much.

    Okay, I've said enough in this thread, I'm starting to repeat myself.

  14. #14
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    Phedra was basically a sexual servant/prostitute who did enjoy and was used for S&M.
    Wrong. Phedra is Kushiels Chosen. She was born to enjoy it and use it in service to Kushiel. She was used as a spy/weapon not a prostitute or sexual servant. The fact you used those terms shows that you did not accept/understand the religion that is in the books. Which if you couldn't/didn't then that would be a good reason for not liking the books.

    I guess it just depends on how you look at it.
    Last edited by Caldazar; September 30th, 2002 at 08:08 PM.

  15. #15
    \m/ BEER \m/ Moderator Rob B's Avatar
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    I know she was Kushiel's Chosen, but part of that role is the whole sex/S&M thing as part of her religious stature. My interpretation is that she was chosen to be a high class prostitute and a spy, and by saying that I don't mean that she is to be looked down upon, it is just how I saw the facts. She had many roles, all related. I know that is a trivilization of how well Carey handles the situation.
    The fact you used those terms shows that you did not accept/understand the religion that is in the books.
    I understood the relgion/Chosen one, I simply chose the wrong words.

    I've said before, I really did like about the first half of the book, I was compelled and interested and genuinely cared about her. The sex DIDN'T bother me at all, I thought it was handled well. When Jocelin (Sp?) became more of a prominent character is when I began to lose interest. I did not like his character.

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