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  1. #1

    Regarding the recent banning of ChrisW and the variety of things that led to it...

    I know this is in the wrong place to post this and, honesty, I don't give a damn.

    You want to make this site a better place to discuss SF and fantasy lit., then ban people like 3rdI (again), not ChrisW. Everyone here knows who the people that are ruining this forum are. Deal with them, why don't you? Until then, this forum has just become another place for assholes to be assholes, just like every other place online, and I have no interest in taking part anymore.

    For the longest time I have referenced this forum as island of sanity in the online world; as an example of how adults can act like adults online to discuss a common interest; contrary to most other forums or places online.

    SFFWorld is no longer that.

    Now days, because of a handful of people who claim to be adults but who act like children, this forum is no different than any other place on line and that makes me sad.

    The result is (not that I expect anyone to care) that I'm done with this place. I have been an irregular poster, but DAILY visitor for 6+ years and have considered this site an invaluable resource for info and opinions about fantasy lit. No longer is that true, as most threads seem to be inundated with childish bickering and arguments over topics such as the validity of the alpha-male (read "asshole") personality. Now days, I care less and less what what this site has to say.

    DAG, TAKE HEED. I KNOW I AM NOT ALONE.

    My screen name is Obtuse and you can deactivate my account or not, I don't care; I won't be visiting any longer.
    Last edited by Hobbit; March 20th, 2011 at 04:16 AM. Reason: email address removed.

  2. #2
    Jack Bauer Bastard's Avatar
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    Meh, I don't care one way or the other. Seems to me like ChrisW has a history of being part of the symptom, so I don't know why you're taking exception to ChrisW actually being banned. It's fine you seem to want a different person banned, but scratching my head as to why you have a problem with the ChrisW banning considering what you're complaining about in your post.

  3. #3
    To be clear, yeah, ChrisW has a history of stepping out of line here and there, but his occasional antics don't ruin the forum.

    Now that I think about this, I probably shouldn't have put his name in the title of the thread since this isn't really about him getting banned after all, it's about a subset of user ruining this forum.

    So perhaps I should have named the thread "Regarding 3rdI and assholes like him ruining SFFWorld."

    Now, if you don't mind, please stop responding to my post before I have chance to log off, so I can do what I said I would and leave.

  4. #4
    Saturn Comes Back Around Evil Agent's Avatar
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    Obtuse, I for one hope you don't leave. I know what you mean about threads degenerating into a lot of off-topic nonsense lately. I've heard the same thing from some other members, so you're definitely not alone. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'd hate to see an old member go because of recent negativity.
    Last edited by Evil Agent; March 20th, 2011 at 02:52 AM.

  5. #5
    Administrator Administrator Hobbit's Avatar
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    I think when these things happen, it is always difficult.

    I would like to think that we do what we can to create a bit of sanity.

    As ever on these things, the way around such issues, as you put them, is that you counterbalance such threads with comments that are witty, literate, intelligent and thoughtful and don't contribute to those which in your opinion are not.

    We live in a world where the Internet and blogs, not to mention Facebook and Twitter, mean that comments are short, abrupt and to the point, which can at times stand at odds to our broad meandering and obtuse Forum posts. (Unintentional pun made there, but I'll leave it!) This can mean that brevity can lead to apparent aggression, particularly when we are used to ramblings...

    There is a place for both but they will evolve, reflecting what's going on around them.

    I think there's a place for both.

    Obtuse: we're sorry to see you go, obviously. My personal response would be that if you're not happy then you would stay and do something about it, turning what you see as a negative into a positive. But that is (again obviously) a personal decision.

    As I've said elsewhere it would be wrong to explain the details of this particular example, especially as the member involved is not here to explain his position. I'm sure his view will be given elsewhere. But there were a number of things taken into account, not just the final post from ChrisW. And I would say that usually after two Strikes, most members do their best not to get a Third.

    Lastly: Dag is aware, as all comments and reasons have been passed on to him and we look at it as staff do, as we will the comments made above.

    Mark
    Mark

  6. #6
    the Thirsty thirstyVan's Avatar
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    I haven't been here long, so I can't comment on what the site "has become" or whatever. But there is one thing that I've found on my time here that I find both kind of strange, and really annoying. Some of the mods seemingly spend a lot of time actively arguing with forum members. This has gotten to the point where several threads have devolved into fights between certain members and certain mods. That is pretty absurd.

    I am not really one to complain, or lodge complaints against specific people. But it is frustrating, and effectively boots anyone not involved in the argument out of the thread. That, in turn, is going to run people off of the forums entirely.

    Anyway. It's just an observation.

  7. #7
    Jack Bauer Bastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirstyVan View Post
    I haven't been here long, so I can't comment on what the site "has become" or whatever. But there is one thing that I've found on my time here that I find both kind of strange, and really annoying. Some of the mods seemingly spend a lot of time actively arguing with forum members. This has gotten to the point where several threads have devolved into fights between certain members and certain mods. That is pretty absurd.

    I am not really one to complain, or lodge complaints against specific people. But it is frustrating, and effectively boots anyone not involved in the argument out of the thread. That, in turn, is going to run people off of the forums entirely.

    Anyway. It's just an observation.
    It depends on what fights are about. At times like these it's crucial to have a second mod to step in and just say this words "X needs to stop, get back on topic and any subsequent post off-topic will get deleted and user warned" or something along those lines.

    Keep in mind, that heated discussions are more than fine. It's normal dynamic. It's when they start fighting in an us vs. them mentality, about forum rules, and things of that nature that it gets disruptive.

    It's a bit hard to exhort mods who are involved in these kinds of fights to auto-moderate the situation since they're party to the fight, so usually another mod should step in. And if it happens frequently with X member, it's already a sign that something has to change.

    I for one think that the mods here need new blood, in the perspective that there seems to be too few of them, particularly active at one point or another. Seems to me that all of them are of the older variety, working people. There's a need of finding people with more time in their hands, maybe college people to help monitor. Not to replace them, but in addition to them. I know that I've recently haven't had much time to spend on the main forum I used to visit a lot, where I'm an admin/mod and had to promote 3 users to mod-ship and one user to admin even though the forum is well run and pretty much to a good extent auto-regulated.

    The community seems quite small at the moment though, and not many solid candidates that I can see that might be able to step up. If any.

    More thread merging, thread splitting, post deleting, thread moving is in order I think to keep the flow going I think.

    For example, I would've moved this thread already to the Feedback section. All this thread is doing is adding more drama to a section of the forum that needs no more drama, plus it's off-topic. It's being left here I would think maybe a bit out of respect to the OP who is a long time member, but ultimately I think the notion is a bit counter-productive since it is off-topic even if it's of interest to the community.

  8. #8
    Omnibus Prime Moderator PeterWilliam's Avatar
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    The mods have done a fine job, as testified to by the longevity of the site and amount of members/threads/posts here. While the style of moderation employed is occasionally, albeit vociferously, decried, it serves to keep things from descending into the realm of personal attacks and/or offensive/shock behavior.

    Truly, it's nothing more than the active enforcement of civility and maturity. It is neither covert (read the post about forum guidelines), nor is it capricious (the staff have been a model of consistency on such matters). If it does not appeal, there really are plenty of other forums on the same subject matter out there.

  9. #9
    the Thirsty thirstyVan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bastard View Post
    It depends on what fights are about. At times like these it's crucial to have a second mod to step in and just say this words "X needs to stop, get back on topic and any subsequent post off-topic will get deleted and user warned" or something along those lines.

    Keep in mind, that heated discussions are more than fine. It's normal dynamic. It's when they start fighting in an us vs. them mentality, about forum rules, and things of that nature that it gets disruptive.

    It's a bit hard to exhort mods who are involved in these kinds of fights to auto-moderate the situation since they're party to the fight, so usually another mod should step in. And if it happens frequently with X member, it's already a sign that something has to change.
    I'm not disagreeing with you, I just find it absurd that mods are getting into these arguments in the first place. You shouldn't need a second mod to come along and get in the middle of it. The first mod needs to fix the problem, not become a part of it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirstyVan View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you, I just find it absurd that mods are getting into these arguments in the first place. You shouldn't need a second mod to come along and get in the middle of it. The first mod needs to fix the problem, not become a part of it.
    I kinda agree, at most sites you are either a mod or a contributing member , but the mods here to play an active part in the community. However I do agree that if a mod decided to take an active part in a thread, they should take no part in moderating it and should be treated just like any other member.

  11. #11
    Jack Bauer Bastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirstyVan View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you, I just find it absurd that mods are getting into these arguments in the first place. You shouldn't need a second mod to come along and get in the middle of it. The first mod needs to fix the problem, not become a part of it.
    Ideally yeah, but it's really not that easy/simple. Some arguments that you mention really shouldn't be happening in the first place and taken care-off right off the bat. Still, when heated arguments occur it's just more simple, cleaner, and best for everyone involved if a different mod puts an end to it when it involves a mod.

  12. #12
    Administrator Administrator Hobbit's Avatar
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    Thanks again for all the points here. We may not agree with all of them but we are reading what's been said.

    For now, I'm happy to close this thread. Don't be too surprised if such posts are taken off the boards in future as part of our review.

    For now, should you wish to discuss it further, then feel free to PM me.

    Mark
    Mark

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