The Iron Druid Chronicles by Kevin Hearne

[AmethystOrator]

I certainly agree that thinking too hard about these books is a a mistake adn that they are not intended to be particularly deep. But those issues did stand out as big inconsistencies to me. This is probably because they deal with issues that I actually know quite a bit about (such as mining - Hearne has clearly never been on an active open pit mine) and the powerplant on the Navajo reservation that burns the coal at issue in the book (I've done consulting work there, I know people who work for that utility, and I'm friends with the NPR reporter who covers the Navajo reservation). From my perspective, Hearne (or Atticus if you must) only showed themselves to be completely ignorant.

The dislike of oil executives is something I didn't have a problem with (even though I also have personal connections there). One of my old college roommates and childhood friends is an executive at one of the big oil companies (I actually expect him to be CEO one day), and while we remain friends, the characterization of oil executives is not far off (and I could cite more examples, but that one is closest to me).

I can certainly understand your thinking. I know that I pay particular attention when a subject, or area, that I am familiar with is depicted in a story. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I met a VP of one of the big oil companies, but that was over a decade ago, and in a non-professional setting, so we didn't really speak much about work related issues. So I don't have any special insight about them.

[LaserWraith]

I was thinking, actually, of the way that Freyja was handled in the book. Particularly



I didn't see what Freyja had done to our "heroes" at that point other than be an obstacle in their way. And the text seems to indicate that a deal was being made to enslave her and make her a "spoil" (i.e. sex slave) for all the male frost giants. If Hearne was going to go there, I didn't see any of the male Asgardians being offered up as sex slaves for the female frost giants. And it's not like the "heroes" went to pains later on so as to cheat the frost giants and protect her from that fate.

Ultimately, I was thinking that having your heroes plan the sexual enslavement of an innocent woman seems wrong.

Well, it certainly seems realistic to some extent. The main characters are pretty old and amoral.

I'm not saying it was good to make that goddess a sex slave, but it made sense from a "would this happen" POV.

[AmethystOrator]

You would avoid a book because of a small hint of misogyny? Even though I have a big distrust of most environmentalist agendas, I still enjoy the books and would get the next ones.

As I said a couple of replies ago, I thought that it was more than a hint. YMMV.

Also, it really did seem to me that each book was a bit less interesting than the last. Prior to the last couple of years I'd only read a couple dozen fantasy books, so I feel like I have lots of catching up to do and there's only so much free time in which to read. So if a series (or author) isn't holding my interest well enough then I am comfortable moving on and trying something else.

Of course, I expected that as well. I just hoped the issues and positions would be more fleshed out, like the Native American traditions and religion. After all, Atticus had a huge amount of years to study the environment and the things that impact it.

I agree. Ideally, I'd have loved it if Hearne dealt with such things more fully. Perhaps going to greater depths with each successive book. For whatever reason that just wasn't the route that he took.

But he was quite willing to destroy a coal mine so he could have a gold mine. That just annoyed me.

I didn't like it either, but I was willing to chalk it up to a different value system. A conversation between a druid and an elemental is bound to contain some thinking that doesn't make sense, or that we don't like.

Being born a long time ago shouldn't make you think so shallowly about a topic that should be important to you. And yes, these books are not really that complex, but there was still room for more fleshing out.

Again, I agree that there is plenty of room for stronger characterization and deeper insight into these characters. I felt like we got a bit more of that in Book 4. So my feeling is that the situation is improving, if slowly. Still far from where I'd like it to be, but these books just don't seem to me that they'll ever be terribly deep.

[AmethystOrator]

Well, it certainly seems realistic to some extent. The main characters are pretty old and amoral.

I'm not saying it was good to make that goddess a sex slave, but it made sense from a "would this happen" POV.

True. I did consider that.

It still doesn't sit entirely well with me, but I didn't rush to condemn Hearne back when I read the book, and ultimately did give him another try.

[jackal912]

Honestly, the while mine thing makes well enough sense - if the rocky ground is actually a living being, then it's not too far-fetched to imagine that digging a giant dirty hole in it is extremely irritating, and you can easily go from there to think that the elemental might have been able to stand one, barely, two would have been just too irritating for him to handle. Even if it was a perfectly 'environmentally friendly' mine it could still be irritating or harmful to an elemental.

Atticus seems to have a pretty hands off policy in that trying to be Captain Planet is obviously going to accomplish nothing - remember that he had his arm twisted by Coyote AND an earth elemental into doing this thing. Plus, if Coyote was telling the truth, the mine's management was more of a problem than the actual mine insofar as the reservation profiting almost not at all from the huge mine on their land. The main goal of sabotaging the coal mine and replacing it with a the gold mine was to give the reservation a huge influx of cash upon which at some later point they might want to go all 'green' if they don't want huge, potentially loud/polluted/ugly mines in their back yard.

I don't know how coal mines actually work though so I couldn't offer an opinion on that either way, but if it was the kind of mine that was an ugly, polluting eyesore, it would also be reasonable for Atticus to be as sour toward the mine as he was, considering how much of a nature guy he is.

[sullivan_riyria]

I recently finished Hounded and really enjoyed it...fast-paced...funny...reminded me a great deal of Dresden, which I also had fun with.

[Lord Pendragon]

I bought and read Hounded, and I didn't really care for it. The writing is mediocre, and the author seems to be trying too hard to cram as many references to pop culture in as they can.

Now, I'm not a big fan of pop culture references in the first place. They date a story such that it's hard to go back to it years later, which I often do with my favorites. I can pick up the Belgariad today, and the story is as as good as it was when I first read it. Ten, heck even five years from now, and the "current" pop references in Hounded will just feel old.

But even if I didn't have a problem with pop culture reference in general, they felt forced and unnatural.

I also didn't really connect with the protagonist. He felt a bit too fake for me. Like many extremely long-lived fantasy characters, he seems completely unaffected by that extreme age, and the kinds of things it would do to one's personality. Basically, it felt like he was a 20-something college kid, that also happened to have awesome magical powers and a convenient backstory.

Meh.

[StoneBurner]

I bought and read Hounded, and I didn't really care for it. The writing is mediocre, and the author seems to be trying too hard to cram as many references to pop culture in as they can.

Now, I'm not a big fan of pop culture references in the first place. They date a story such that it's hard to go back to it years later, which I often do with my favorites. I can pick up the Belgariad today, and the story is as as good as it was when I first read it. Ten, heck even five years from now, and the "current" pop references in Hounded will just feel old.

But even if I didn't have a problem with pop culture reference in general, they felt forced and unnatural.

I also didn't really connect with the protagonist. He felt a bit too fake for me. Like many extremely long-lived fantasy characters, he seems completely unaffected by that extreme age, and the kinds of things it would do to one's personality. Basically, it felt like he was a 20-something college kid, that also happened to have awesome magical powers and a convenient backstory.

Meh.

How do you know what long-lived individuals are supposed to be like?

[Danogzilla]

How do you know what long-lived individuals are supposed to be like?

As a four thousand year old dragon I can attest that we long lived individuals are not always so hip to pop culture references.

edit: I enjoy these books a lot. Smart, fun and funny.

[Lord Pendragon]

How do you know what long-lived individuals are supposed to be like?

The same way you do?

You are free to believe that one can live for 2000 years and have the personality of a 20-year-old college kid. I tend to believe that 2000 years of life would weigh on a person's soul, and as such the main character in Hounded did not ring true for me. He feels like a Mary Sue, wielding a celtic supersword and having sex with goddesses left and right.

I'm fine with light fiction. Some of my favorite novels are in the same vein (I highly recommend Magyk by Accident, by Esther Friesner). But Hounded is a poor example of it, in my opinion.

[Lord Pendragon]

As a four thousand year old dragon I can attest that we long lived individuals are not always so hip to pop culture references.

Pure win.

[StoneBurner]

The same way you do?

You are free to believe that one can live for 2000 years and have the personality of a 20-year-old college kid. I tend to believe that 2000 years of life would weigh on a person's soul, and as such the main character in Hounded did not ring true for me. He feels like a Mary Sue, wielding a celtic supersword and having sex with goddesses left and right.

I'm fine with light fiction. Some of my favorite novels are in the same vein (I highly recommend Magyk by Accident, by Esther Friesner). But Hounded is a poor example of it, in my opinion.

I wasn't defending the books. I think they are entertaining, but I think Marquitz Demon Squad books are better at the same thing. There are moments in later books where Atticus shows the "wisdom" you'd expect of somebody of his age. Overall, I don't care so much about the college fratboy personality because it's possible we have expectations predetermined by other stories.

[algernoninc]

Want to see what a couple of millenia does to a personality, read the Kane books by Karl Edward Wagner (I just finished the 4th - Dark Crusade) . Want a fun romp for the beach - read the Iron Druid. There's a time and place for both.

[sullivan_riyria]

I bought and read Hounded, and I didn't really care for it. The writing is mediocre, and the author seems to be trying too hard to cram as many references to pop culture in as they can.

Now, I'm not a big fan of pop culture references in the first place. They date a story such that it's hard to go back to it years later, which I often do with my favorites. I can pick up the Belgariad today, and the story is as as good as it was when I first read it. Ten, heck even five years from now, and the "current" pop references in Hounded will just feel old.

But even if I didn't have a problem with pop culture reference in general, they felt forced and unnatural.

I also didn't really connect with the protagonist. He felt a bit too fake for me. Like many extremely long-lived fantasy characters, he seems completely unaffected by that extreme age, and the kinds of things it would do to one's personality. Basically, it felt like he was a 20-something college kid, that also happened to have awesome magical powers and a convenient backstory.

Meh.

I actually liked Hounded...I thought it is fast-paced and fun. There seems to be so little "fun" in fantasy these days that I'm drawn to it where ever it can be found. To me it reads very much like Jim Butcher's Dresden series which I also enjoyed.

[Lord Pendragon]

There seems to be so little "fun" in fantasy these days

I do agree with this sentiment. It feels like there isn't as much good light fantasy coming out as there used to be. Either that, or I'm just not finding it. That said, it doesn't make mediocre writing any better.

Out of curiosity have you read David Eddings or Esther Friesner? (Though Friesner's best stuff might be out of print. )

To me it reads very much like Jim Butcher's Dresden series which I also enjoyed.

Hrm. Not sure how I feel about this statement. I haven't read Dresden, but I've read Butcher's Codex Alera and he's a much better author. The only thing that's stopped me from picking up the Dresden books is that a friend tells me it's on a very dark trajectory and it doesn't look like Harry's going to end up in a good place, and I hate depressing endings.