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  1. #106
    Cranky old broad AuntiePam's Avatar
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    The impression I had about Dany's early life was that she and Viserys were treated like highborn expatriates -- they were without power but they weren't beggars. They lived in relative comfort, had enough to eat, clothes to wear, and were kept in a certain station to give credibility to their claims. Dany has fond memories of the house with the red door -- she doesn't remember wondering where her next meal was coming from.

  2. #107
    Registered User Werthead's Avatar
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    Yeah, in the books it's clear that Dany and Viserys were effectively treated by the rulers of the Free Cities a bit like Jalabher Xho in King's Landing: a curiosity, possibly of future tactical use, and certainly worth spending a small amount of money now on clothing and feeding them which could be repaid handsomely down the line if they (somehow) take the Iron Throne (or in Xho's case, if he allows greater Westerosi influence in the Summer Islands).

    Plus (spoiler from the books):

    Spoiler:
    We know now that Illyrio and the Archon of Tyrosh both conspired with the Martells to have Arianne marry Viserys later on, so both of them knew that Viserys and Dany's chances of reclaiming their birthright were not totally non-existent. The assurance of Dorne's future support means that Illyrio wasn't - for once - lying when he said he knew there'd be support for the Targs in Westeros.

  3. #108
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    They weren't beggars in the usual sense of living in gutters, no. But the refuge they were given was always tenuous and removable, varied in kindness and was tinged with threat. Danys did not grow up as a spoiled, petted princess who ordered around her own servants and thinking herself the sun in the sky, which is what I was explaining to Loerwyn. She grew up scared and uneasy, having to keep a regal face, abused and belittled by her angry brother, who would sell her in a heartbeat, with no other resources, money, friends, and no one believing she had any worth as herself, just her name and her body when she was old enough. The show did manage to show that with Viserys and a number of lines of dialogue were about that situation, and her changing circumstances as khaleesi were also explored in the show.

  4. #109
    Cranky old broad AuntiePam's Avatar
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    Good points. I have to remind myself that insecurity is stressful. You're right. Dany might not have been a beggar, but even that might be better than being a pawn.

  5. #110
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    1. Yay more Game of Thrones yay
    2. Very strong language from the outset?
    3. Oh, a Blackberry advert. Yeah, *censored* off.
    4. First voice in the recap - Chinfluff. ARGH. *Censored*
    5. Noooo, the Ravens!
    6. Ugh, Chinfluff scene time.
    7. Let me dance around you from upon my 'orse.
    8. Yara. Yay.
    9. Um... she has heels. Oh dear.
    10. HAHAHAHA! YES. YOU GO YARA! Swear at him loudly!
    11. Look at me! I have chinfluff therefore I'm the best! I had that lady there! See her? I had her!
    12. THIS SCENE IS TOO DARK
    13. GUT IM
    14. GUT IM
    15. "I'll do it meself". <3 Ygritte <3
    16. But Jon has no stones to cut off.
    17. Rob(b) talking about HONOUR in indirect terms. HONOUR.
    18. HOW?!
    18b. 'cus he's a manipulative, evil git, that's how.
    19. Uh oh, Catelyn is not making people happy.
    20. Wait, I thought he was recaptured at the end of the last episode?!
    21. Yay Brienne.
    22. No, she definitely seems slightly awkward.
    23. What the f**k was that little bit? Jamie and Brienne going for a little boat ride? I mean, did we need to see them go off towards the sun?
    24. Tywin massively underestimating Rob(b) there.
    25. Brotherhood?
    26. OH LOOK WE CAN USE THE C WORD
    27. How did the fat kid (sorry, but that's his only identifier) and blacksmith kid escape being ratified? Is it 'cos the executioner diedified?
    28. Ygritte is not stupid. Not at all.
    29. Lol Tyrion & Bronn(?!) - Awesome.
    30. Hahaha. "It's just the unknown thieves we need to worry about"
    31. Very, very good points made there, actually.
    32. "We could throw books at his men!"
    33. Sam! Yay!
    34. Oh look at how convenient that was.
    35. Man walks into Arya, tells her to mind where she goes, he hits her. Barsteward.
    36. Arya is very, very clever and sneaksy.
    37. Not very honourable, eh?
    38. Lawl. Willy talk.
    39. Oh, ouch. Owies. Cersei, you're horrible.
    40. SERIOUSLY WHY THE C WORD CONSTANTLY.
    41. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh.
    42. Did Cersei outwit Tyrion or did he outwit her? Hmm...
    43. Wow, Tyrion... being undone here. Wow. This is a little sad
    44. Oh, it's the (not-quite-s)exposition nurse appearing again.
    45. Story about her being careless, she smiles all the way through. Girl's all kinds of screwed up.
    46. Rob(b) reverted to scowly-face, his default setting.
    47. and again
    48. and again.
    49. Oh look a Grimm-esque story of peasant saving highborn so she goes all Lawful Good and airy-fairy and blergh. B-O-R-I-N-G
    50. OH NO YOU DI'N'T ROB(B)
    51. Vomit.
    52. Why does she get naked first? Oh, sideboob and bum shots, of course.
    53. Ewwww. Get a room!
    54. That was gross *flails*
    55. Fat kid talking about food. Seriously?
    56. Shut up. Sigh.
    57. There we go, explanation of the Onion Knight thing. Simples.
    58. EW JOFFREY
    59. Strut strut strut strut
    60. Hahaha. Awesome. They just slapped Joffrey down there behind his back.
    61. "A most highborn plumber" Ohhhhh, it's a pun, yes?
    62. Hahaha. "God of tits and wine" Awesome.
    63. Daenerys showing... things again. Sigh. WHY?
    64. Vomit again.
    65. Yes, I still don't like her.
    66. Ew Chinfluff.
    67. OSHA <3
    68. *Sniffle*

    Weaker episode, in my opinion. Was just lots of people saying the C word and lots of showings and talks of boobs. The last scene with Osha et al was good, though.

    Also, this. And sorry for the spelling mistakes (I didn't make it!).

  6. #111
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    You're now the official SFFWorld recapper.

    3. Oh, a Blackberry advert. Yeah, *censored* off.
    4. First voice in the recap - Chinfluff. ARGH. *Censored* -- See, this is why you should not stop writing.

    9. Um... she has heels. Oh dear. -- Those are her riding boots.

    16. But Jon has no stones to cut off. -- LOL, you're so mean to Jon!

    20. Wait, I thought he was recaptured at the end of the last episode?! -- He was, but because Robb's bannermen were threatening to kill him for the murder of the boy guarding him and because Littlefinger told Cat at Renly's camp they'd do a secret swap, Cat sends Brienne to take Jaime back to King's Landing to try to get her daughters back. When Robb gets there, Jaime and Brienne are gone.

    21. Yay Brienne.
    22. No, she definitely seems slightly awkward. -- She's awkward unless she's fighting because she's uncomfortable with how people regard her. Jaime tries to exploit that with his insults but mostly she snorts at him.

    23. What the f**k was that little bit? Jaime and Brienne going for a little boat ride? I mean, did we need to see them go off towards the sun? -- Brienne knows they can't go on the roads or they'll be captured. So she's taking them down river. It's also good for keeping Jaime contained -- he's less likely to jump out of the boat when he's trussed up than he is to try to attack her on land.

    25. Brotherhood? -- The Brotherhood Without Banners. They are a group that has been protecting villagers from the armies (mostly the Lannister armies.) The Lannister forces at Harrenhal were torturing villagers and prisoners at Harrenhal with the rats and other means to get information about where the Brotherhood might be and who they are because they want to stop them.

    26. OH LOOK WE CAN USE THE C WORD -- Yes, they used it a lot this episode, which was either deliberate regarding some over theme they're building or really, really bad script editing.

    27. How did the fat kid (sorry, but that's his only identifier) and blacksmith kid escape being ratified? Is it 'cos the executioner diedified?

    -- The "fat" kid is Hot Pie, one of the other Night Watch recruits/conscripts from Yoren's caravan. (So called because he stole a pie.) The blacksmith is Gendry, King Robert's bastard son, who was escaping King's Landing to go to the Night Watch, because men were hunting for him as Cersei was having all of Robert's bastard children killed. Sir Loch attacked Yoren's caravan because they were looking for Gendry. Arya managed to convince them that another boy in the caravan who was killed in the attack was the one they were looking for because that boy happened to have Gendry's horned helmet. When they got to Harrenhal, Gendry was about to be tortured and killed with the rats, with the rat master -- the Tickler -- asking him about the Brotherhood Without Banners which Gendry knew nothing of -- but then Tywin showed up and told them to stop. When he found out that Gendry had blacksmith skills, he put Gendry to work as a smith at Harrenhal and the other boys and men who survived the attack on Yoren's caravan were put to work as servants or soldiers. Jaquen, Rorge and Biter, the three men in the afire wagon whom Arya freed despite Rorge threatening her (which are the three lives she saved and so gets three deaths in return from Jaquen,) went to work as guardsmen. Hot Pie and Arya became servants with Arya becoming Tywin's cup bearer. And yes, Arya also had the Tickler killed by Jaquen as her first kill, because she didn't think he really could do it.

    42. Did Cersei outwit Tyrion or did he outwit her? Hmm... -- Tyrion outwitted Cersei, but it was mainly by luck. Her spies are not very good.


    54. That was gross *flails* -- That seems to be the general consensus. Although she is a lovely woman.

    55. Fat kid talking about food. Seriously? -- It's his signature trait.

    57. There we go, explanation of the Onion Knight thing. Simples. -- Yes, but it was very late in the season. Worked well with the you'll be my Hand part though. Also, clearly why Stannis has a lot of anger towards both Robert and Renly.

    63. Daenerys showing... things again. Sigh. WHY? -- She's wearing the Qarthian clothing, and she's trying to manipulate Jorah into helping her do what she wants -- rescuing her dragons.

    65. Yes, I still don't like her. -- Well, she's being manipulative here, so she's not very likable that way, but hey, Ygritte did the same thing. Jorah could just flip her over his shoulder and take her off to the ship he arranged, so she's being sneaky.

  7. #112
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KatG View Post
    You're now the official SFFWorld recapper.
    &
    See, this is why you should not stop writing.
    Official? Eeep.

    Those are her riding boots.
    Oh. Right.

    LOL, you're so mean to Jon!
    Jon Snow knows nothing of my meanie-pants-ness.

    He was, but because Robb's bannermen were threatening to kill him for the murder of the boy guarding him and because Littlefinger told Cat at Renly's camp they'd do a secret swap, Cat sends Brienne to take Jaime back to King's Landing to try to get her daughters back. When Robb gets there, Jaime and Brienne are gone.
    Oh. So he escaped, was caught, and then kinda-not-quite escaped again?

    She's awkward unless she's fighting because she's uncomfortable with how people regard her. Jaime tries to exploit that with his insults but mostly she snorts at him.
    I was thinking more about how she moves. It just doesn't seem "right", but then again I doubt I'd be any more graceful in armour.

    Brienne knows they can't go on the roads or they'll be captured. So she's taking them down river. It's also good for keeping Jaime contained -- he's less likely to jump out of the boat when he's trussed up than he is to try to attack her on land.
    Oh, I gathered that, it's just the seemingly endless shot we got of Brienne and Jamie rowing off into the sun. Totally a waste of time. It could have cut off from Brienne pushing the boat away from the embankment.

    The Brotherhood Without Banners. They are a group that has been protecting villagers from the armies (mostly the Lannister armies.) The Lannister forces at Harrenhal were torturing villagers and prisoners at Harrenhal with the rats and other means to get information about where the Brotherhood might be and who they are because they want to stop them.
    Oh, right. I have a memory like a sieve.

    Yes, they used it a lot this episode, which was either deliberate regarding some over theme they're building or really, really bad script editing.
    I'm going with bad script editing.

    -- The "fat" kid is Hot Pie, one of the other Night Watch recruits/conscripts from Yoren's caravan. (So called because he stole a pie.) The blacksmith is Gendry, King Robert's bastard son, who was escaping King's Landing to go to the Night Watch, because men were hunting for him as Cersei was having all of Robert's bastard children killed. Sir Loch attacked Yoren's caravan because they were looking for Gendry. Arya managed to convince them that another boy in the caravan who was killed in the attack was the one they were looking for because that boy happened to have Gendry's horned helmet. When they got to Harrenhal, Gendry was about to be tortured and killed with the rats, with the rat master -- the Tickler -- asking him about the Brotherhood Without Banners which Gendry knew nothing of -- but then Tywin showed up and told them to stop. When he found out that Gendry had blacksmith skills, he put Gendry to work as a smith at Harrenhal and the other boys and men who survived the attack on Yoren's caravan were put to work as servants or soldiers. Jaquen, Rorge and Biter, the three men in the afire wagon whom Arya freed despite Rorge threatening her (which are the three lives she saved and so gets three deaths in return from Jaquen,) went to work as guardsmen. Hot Pie and Arya became servants with Arya becoming Tywin's cup bearer. And yes, Arya also had the Tickler killed by Jaquen as her first kill, because she didn't think he really could do it.
    Right, I think I got that. So, basically, Hot Pie exists to do nothing but be fat and eat?

    Tyrion outwitted Cersei, but it was mainly by luck. Her spies are not very good.
    In that case, yay Tyrion.

    That seems to be the general consensus. Although she is a lovely woman
    I wasn't looking. I was too busy being disgusted in my list!

    It's his signature trait.
    See above a few points.

    She's wearing the Qarthian clothing, and she's trying to manipulate Jorah into helping her do what she wants -- rescuing her dragons.
    But he's already a creepy creepy "I WANT YOU KHALISI" person. She doesn't need to flash some cleavage (such as it is) at him.

    Well, she's being manipulative here, so she's not very likable that way, but hey, Ygritte did the same thing. Jorah could just flip her over his shoulder and take her off to the ship he arranged, so she's being sneaky. [/QUOTE]
    At least Ygritte has charm and charisma and cutsieness and attitude and fun and stuff.

    As you can tell, I like Ygritte.

  8. #113
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    Oh. So he escaped, was caught, and then kinda-not-quite escaped again?

    -- Yes.

    Oh, I gathered that, it's just the seemingly endless shot we got of Brienne and Jamie rowing off into the sun. Totally a waste of time. It could have cut off from Brienne pushing the boat away from the embankment.

    -- Well, it's kind of symbolic.

    Right, I think I got that. So, basically, Hot Pie exists to do nothing but be fat and eat?

    -- No, he has a minor role. Think of him as part of Arya's posse. Also, I mixed him up slightly with another minor character -- Hot Pie was a baker's apprentice and that's how he got his name.

    But he's already a creepy creepy "I WANT YOU KHALISI" person. She doesn't need to flash some cleavage (such as it is) at him.

    -- She does because he wants her to leave Qarth and not go in the House of the Undying to try to rescue the dragons. She's also wearing the outfits of that culture to please Xho because they are trying to keep themselves from being thrown in chains after he and the wizards killed the Council.

    As you can tell, I like Ygritte.

    -- You're of the Highlands, lass.

  9. #114
    Saturn Comes Back Around Evil Agent's Avatar
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    Hot Pie is a very minor character, and yet somewhat of a fan favourite in the books. The show cut out one of his best moments (during the brief battle when Yoren was killed and they were taken to Harrenhal, Arya was supposed to shout her war cry "Winterfell!" while killing a guard, and Hot Pie gets caught up in the excitement and yells "HOT PIE!" while doing the same. Hilarious little book moment, sadly not in the show).

  10. #115
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KatG View Post
    -- You're of the Highlands, lass.
    I think ye've got yerself confused wi' bonny Scotland in yer wee heid there, ye ken?

    Too much Nac Mac Feegle influence for me, then...

  11. #116
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    They can't do the whole story just up in the North. (Well, an author could do that, but not Martin.)

  12. #117
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    One can dream.

  13. #118
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    1. So, this is apparently titled Blackwater. Wonder what this could be about...
    2. Another flipping recap.
    3. "Jars of pig*silence*" "Our order does not deal in pig*silence*!" Good censoring there.
    4. Yup, it's the Georgie ep.
    5. Everything is so flipping dark.
    6. Ewww vomit
    7. Poor Tyrion
    8. Was that the song everyone's raving about?
    9. "Poor nose..." with boobs.
    10. And naked lady.
    11. "There's women in the ground" etc - AWESOME lines.
    12. Saved by the bell... Literally.
    13. Tyrion vs Whatshisface. The eunuch. Fun.
    14. A double-headed axe? Um... bit "dwarfy", right?
    15. DRUAMSSSSZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    16. "Oh, are we friends now?"
    17. **** OFF AND DIE JOFFREY.
    18. Sorry, but I hate him.
    19. YOUR KING RIDES OFF TO BATTLE
    20. LOOK AT ME OVERCOMPENSATING FOR A SMALL NONFUNCTIONING PENIS
    21. Hehehehehe, Sansa kicked him in the shin with words. You go girl.
    22. Looks like she's... realising how bad he is, and saying so openly. Eep.
    23. Bloody circular arguments!
    24. Lol, Tyrion rocks.
    25. Is that long haired bloke the one who was sleeping with Cersei?
    26. RED FLOWER WHAT EW NO ARGH *flails*
    27. Cersei you're a horrible person I hate you but I want your too-literal breastplate.
    28. Holy cod.
    29. FSWHOOSHBOOMSPLOSIONS
    30. Amazing SFX there, it was beautiful.
    31. BOOM HEADSHOT
    32. That's horrible now. All that screaming...
    33. Stannis' troops have lost most of their morale. Oopsie.
    34. CERSEI YOU STILL SUCK (on your brother lol)
    35. Cersei is horribles.
    36. And a vile drunk.
    37. Yep, Cersei sucks.
    38. She's basically saying PREPARE TO BE RAPED.
    39. Oh, no, she DID say that.
    40. Why do I get the idea Cersei would be the first to rape her?
    41. Why am I even discussing this oh gods
    42. Joffrey is pissing his little kingly pants.
    43. This makes me squeal with glee.
    44. One terrible extra actually shouted "Ow!". Oh dear.
    45. BOOM HEADSPLAT
    46. More rape comments. Jeez, Martin, pull the other one for once. You're almost at the level of Alan Moore.
    47. Lol he squealed when he got hit with an arrow.
    48. Advert for the latest Game of Thrones vidjagame there. Oh dear.
    49. Oh might have missed a moment there. Now Cersei talking about stuff.
    50. She needs to stop drinking.
    51. Stop drinking a LONG time ago.
    52. She found out Tyrion's companion.
    53. Uh oh, I think that guy is gonna die.
    54. Well that guard was a happy git.
    55. The Hound looked dazed and confused there.
    56. He just went up in my estimation for what he said to Joffrey, too.
    57. Awww widdle Joffwey wants to go wunning off to mumsywumsy
    58. Tyrion's quite the orator once he gets going.
    59. SHALL WE SING A HYMN?
    60. No, 'cos I don't want him to survive.
    61. Bloody miserable guard again.
    62. Why did the Hound? What?
    63. Creepy git.
    64. BAM! YOU GO TYRION!
    65. Lol @ Tyrion's line.
    66. NOOO TYRION NOOOO (I know he's not dead)
    67. Tywin saves the day! Sort of!

    Well... as for that episode? It wasn't bad, but it was way too dark for me, as in visually dark. I couldn't see a thing most of the time.

  14. #119
    It never entered my mind algernoninc's Avatar
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    I see you noticed the Sansa moment : 21 - this was an excellent example that she is not the sap everyone thinks of. She's practically goading Joffrey to be killed, deliberately.

    For me this episode was dominated by the Hound. He got the best lines. Even for those who have not read the book, I hope they notice half his face is horribly burned. It follows he has a problem with fire, and his cracking up under pressure is not so surprising. Neither is his insulting Joffrey, after all the crap he had to put up with as his bodyguard.

  15. #120
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    5. Everything is so flipping dark. -- That was the problem of the night shoot. But I did enjoy little comic bits they did about providing light on scenes. And with it being dark, the rocks didn't look too styrofoamey.

    8. Was that the song everyone's raving about? -- Apparently so. It is the iPod generation, after all.

    9. "Poor nose..." with boobs. -- It's nice that they got the boobs in during the battle episode. Wouldn't want an HBO show slacking there. She's the third of the three regular prostitute characters and it was nice that she got a bit.

    18. Sorry, but I hate him. -- But you've got to love the actor for making you hate him so well.

    25. Is that long haired bloke the one who was sleeping with Cersei? -- Yes, that's Lancel, Cersei's cousin. Lancel was King Robert's squire and killed him at Cersei's direction. For that deed, he was made a knight. Tyrion, when he found out that Lancel was Cersei's lover, threatened Lancel into being a double agent spy for Tyrion. In the battle, he turns more battling Lannister, gets wounded by an arrow, stands up to Cersei over Joffrey and she shoves him in the chest, causing him to collapse because it hurts his arrow wound.


    33. Stannis' troops have lost most of their morale. Oopsie. -- But he rallies them and they are still a horde.

    35. Cersei is horribles. -- -- She's terrified for her children. And bitter. Oh, so very bitter.

    52. She found out Tyrion's companion. -- Shae is also saved by the bell, sort of.

    55. The Hound looked dazed and confused there. -- The soldier he's facing is on fire and fire is all around him. He's pathologically scared of fire, because he nearly died from it and still bears the burn scars. So he decides to leave, because he hates them all anyway.

    62. Why did the Hound? What? -- He's crushing on Sansa, but she's placing bets on Stannis breaking through and that being better for her.

    66. NOOO TYRION NOOOO (I know he's not dead) -- Don't spoil it for the people who don't know.

    67. Tywin saves the day! Sort of! -- Littlefinger made a deal with the Tyrells after Renly's murder. And little Tommen lives to see another day.

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