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  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter View Post
    I love breasts as much as the next guy and I am far from a prude, but they went a bit overboard with the nudity. It feels like this show should be airing on late night Cinemax.
    Did you watch Rome? Way more nudity there. And considered by most to be one of the best shows that's been on HBO. It's just real and gritty, that stuff was described in the book, so they did it on TV.

  2. #47
    and I like to party. Seak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Agent View Post
    I still feel like it was a little rushed, and full of incredible amounts of complex exposition... but I'm going to re-watch the episode later today, and I expect I may enjoy it more the second time.
    I thought it was rushed as well. It was like, let's throw out as many characters as we can in one episode (I know, they were actually holding back) and get to the infamous "The things I do for love" scene, then we'll have them hooked.

    That's true, but it also seems like maybe they should have done a 2 hour long opening (like 24) to keep people involved with the immense amount of characters.

  3. #48
    Gloriam Imperator kged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Agent View Post
    This blows my mind. Rubbish? Most people are raving about them! I think they're some of the coolest titles I've ever seen.

    Maybe they'd have been better without the gears/clockwork, but it's still cool. Instead of a fully realistic map, they went with a highly stylized map. So, so good!
    Now you say that, I realise that it is indeed the clockwork element that I didn't like. It just vaguely reminded me of the titles some kids' TV shows from my far-off youth, and it jarred with my expectations and with the anticipation I was feeling. If the map was static, with the models in place, I would have preferred that greatly.

    Thoroughly subjective, I know! And I got over it, it didn't ruin the show for me or anything.

    On a similar design-related note - I was unimpressed by Winterfell. Not nearly as imposing and monolithic as I had it in my minds eye, and those rounded towers really didn't work for me. I thought King's Landing looked fabulous, though, and I can't wait to see Dorne (especially the Sunspear tower thingy) and The Twins and the other notable landmarks. I also liked the way the luxury and opulence of Pentos really threw the Stark lands into sharp relief, as being grim and hard and reet northern, like. ( And I really *LOVE* how all the good guys so far have accents like mine, and the baddies are all southerners. "I am a Northman..." )

  4. #49
    and I like to party. Seak's Avatar
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    I realize I've been complaining too much. Loved the show! ...and I'm sticking with this. (I just really want it to get picked up for the rest of the series)

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter View Post
    I love breasts as much as the next guy and I am far from a prude, but they went a bit overboard with the nudity. It feels like this show should be airing on late night Cinemax.
    FTW? Have you ever watched late night Cinemax?

    The sex was tame. It is part of the book as such it should be part of the show.

    I only have one problem. How old is the chick that plays Dany? Part of me wants to say....DAMN she has a nice body....but if she isn't 18 I would feel awful for saying it. In the books she is much younger. But I assume with legalities and such the woman playing Dany has got to be at least 18. She certainly looks older than she is in the books.
    Last edited by 3rdI; April 18th, 2011 at 08:46 PM.

  6. #51
    Dazed Rambler Winter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdI View Post
    FTW? Have you ever watched late night Cinemax?

    The sex was tame. It is part of the book as such it should be part of the show.
    Obviously, else I would have gone with a different reference. I am referring to the amount of nudity in and out of the sex scenes.

    I'll go ahead an disagree with the whole "part of the book, part of the show" opinion. There is no harm in cutting down the amount of nudity, especially where it is not needed, like the dance scenes during the Dothraki wedding.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter View Post
    Obviously, else I would have gone with a different reference. I am referring to the amount of nudity in and out of the sex scenes.

    I'll go ahead an disagree with the whole "part of the book, part of the show" opinion. There is no harm in cutting down the amount of nudity, especially where it is not needed, like the dance scenes during the Dothraki wedding.
    Is there such a thing as too much nudity? As long as it is female nudity of course. I am a liberal atheist so it doesn't bother me any. I was laughing when Jaime brought all those women in for Tyrion. I can already tell Tyrion is going to be one of my favorite characters. Great actor and he is playing that part superbly.

  8. #53
    Dazed Rambler Winter's Avatar
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    Hey, you can't be choosy in these matters. If there is going to be a lot of female nudity, then there should be an equal amount of male nudity. I am also a liberal atheist. The Tyrion introduction was a good scene, no complaints from me there.

  9. #54
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksbane
    I'll keep watching, but my expectations aren't nearly as high anymore.
    As soon as I saw the Wall, I was happy. Because they just really were clearly committed to the books.

    Quote Originally Posted by sdelu
    But honestly the thing that really shocked me was that after all the breasts we did get to see, they kept Cersei's locked up tight.
    Cersei and Cat have nudity clauses in their contracts. You will only see their breasts for very special occasions, if at all. The onus will be on Danys, who, being not as big career-wise, has to strip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Werthead
    Hodor is standing next to Bran and Sansa when they welcome the royal party to Winterfell.
    Oh well, honestly! I'll have to see if we still have it in the DVR and look then. Couldn't they simply have had him give out one Hodor in the background at an earlier point? We'd have known who he is and newbies wouldn't have cared. But as long as he's there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Agent
    I also didn't mind the change with Dany's sex scene (this felt more realistic than the book version, to me).
    Well the book version is rather critical to the plot. It's not a matter of thinking that big D is a nice guy -- he's not -- but it's what he teaches Danys to be -- a queen. She is not a queen until he shows her how to be one, and that starts with him treating her as not just a body to use, not just a girl. He makes her a partner in his plans, instead of just a slave. In the t.v. show, he treats her as just a slave. So they're going to have to change that in the next few episodes, or the whole Danys plotline of her becoming a queen who can become the Mother of Dragons isn't going to work very well. So while I don't mind or even am going to necessarily notice minor changes from the books, condensing plot stuff, or mild character changes, this was a biggie and it just was off. I think that's the problem some had with the Dorathki initial portrayal -- little too cartoonish, not getting the subtleties. But they'll have more time for that during the season.

    The guy who plays Drogo is great; that's not the problem. They just got a little too much into the "let's make it gritty" mode. But you don't have to make it gritty because Martin has already built it in to the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by kged
    And the titles are indeed rubbish.
    I thought it was an excellent gambit. You show all the new people -- look, here's King's Landing and here to the north of it, is Winterfell, the Wall, and then across the sea from it is Davos -- so you had all the names of places right there going in. We who read the books got the maps (not to mention the appendices; ) this is an easy way to provide a map to viewers. You can put in the other places each time for each episode. And the pop up castles made it not boring for those who are not into maps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris777
    It's just real and gritty, that stuff was described in the book, so they did it on TV.
    There are naked people in the books at points. But not so many breasts popping up on a regular basis. Again, I think this will settle down a bit now that they've launched. But it's an HBO requirement, and given that they've paid for everything, I do not begrudge them what they feel is vital to keep their male viewers. It's certainly not as much as True Blood.
    Last edited by KatG; April 18th, 2011 at 10:28 PM.

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by KatG View Post
    There are naked people in the books at points. But not so many breasts popping up on a regular basis. Again, I think this will settle down a bit now that they've launched. But it's an HBO requirement, and given that they've paid for everything, I do not begrudge them what they feel is vital to keep their male viewers. It's certainly not as much as True Blood.
    As a male viewer as I was just saying to Winter the more nudity the merrier but the Dany thing is weird. I just looked up the actress who plays her and she is of age (Emilia Clarke) but it creates a strange dynamic. As a man I obviously find her attractive but at the same time I think back to the books and wasn't Dany way younger? That creates a feeling of discomfort. I wonder if HBO did that on purpose as well.
    Last edited by 3rdI; April 18th, 2011 at 10:11 PM.

  11. #56
    Illustrious Gambler saintjon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KatG View Post
    There are naked people in the books at points. But not so many breasts popping up on a regular basis.
    ... no that was pretty much how the wedding was described in the books. If anything they toned it down a lot. There's no point by point breakdown of "and then off to the left there was another topless savage undulating wildly whose nipples were slightly larger than the former..." but what is described is a wedding feast of barbarians where people are fighting, drinking and screwing for all to see. Do you really think there wouldn't a lot of nakedness going on? Martin goes over again and again how the Dothraki really don't give a crap about privacy or decorum like we do. I really don't care one way or the other but to say that the books don't have nudity on a regular basis is just not accurate. What about in book 3 where Dany basically goes around with one breast out at all times? Not only is there nudity there's descriptions of really graphic stuff like

    Spoiler:
    Tyrion performing cunnilingus until his beard is literally dripping. Or how about when Jaime banged his sister in a church during her period?


    I mean really this isn't exactly Narnia we're talking about now. ASoIaF is not sanitized, I thought that was one of the good things about it. People crap, masturbate, get naked, do nasty things and die. Just like in real life.

    The Dany age thing is supposed to be jarring too. I think it's a way of driving home that although there are familiar trappings this is not your world or your time you are witnessing, especially where the Tagaryens are concerned.

  12. #57
    Registered User murf99's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure they aged some of the characters up for the tv show. In the book Bran is 7 and in the show he's 10. Jon and Rob are 14 in the book but they appear to be around 18 for the show. Also Dany is 13 in the book. Not sure how old she's supposed to be for the show, but I would guess they're trying to potray her as 17 or 18.

  13. #58
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintjon View Post
    ... no that was pretty much how the wedding was described in the books.
    They weren't screwing in the show -- they were mock screwing at the wedding, which made it again a bit strange and cartoonish, rather than wild. It was like a dance troupe for The Lion King that suddenly got bloody. They didn't quite pull it off like the book did, but it wasn't that big a problem for me.

    It's not that there's no nudity in Martin's books, or sex scenes. He just uses them judiciously, mostly as plot points. It's not that I don't think the show shouldn't show bare breasts in it. But they kept throwing them into the first episode in large numbers, which made it a bit comical, and this is a HBO specialty. (Be interesting to see if they do go True Blood in showing us more male flesh.) I know you like them, but we don't need bare breasts all the time. And I don't think we'll see them as often herein.

    The Danys age thing is supposed to be jarring too. I think it's a way of driving home that although there are familiar trappings this is not your world or your time you are witnessing, especially where the Tagaryens are concerned.
    You misunderstood what I meant by "girl." It's not her age, it's her disposability. Drogo shows Danys that she can be a queen, not disposable. (Not his equal, obviously, but not disposable.) They changed the sex scene from the book and it was off. And it effects her brother's death scene. It was important. It's not an unfixable thing, but it was the one part of the first episode that I didn't think worked because of plot issues.

  14. #59
    Saturn Comes Back Around Evil Agent's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Watched it a second time. This time at home, on my nice TV, without the interruptions and talking that happened at the premiere party I went to.

    Wow! I think I liked it a lot more the 2nd time. Small changes were less jarring, and I was better able to enjoy it for what it was. I noticed a lot more of the visual details as well, and got a far better sense for the feel of the show. It is really excellent! I have a feeling that every episode will need more than one viewing, to fully enjoy it.

    I'm really happy right now, because regardless of critics/ratings/etc., I have realized that as a fan of the book, I'm personally going to really, really enjoy this show.
    Last edited by Evil Agent; April 18th, 2011 at 11:28 PM.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Agent View Post
    Watched it a second time. This time at home, on my nice TV, without the interruptions and talking that happened at the premiere party I went to.

    Wow! I think I liked it a lot more the 2nd time. Small changes were less jarring, and I was better able to enjoy it for what it was. I noticed a lot more of the visual details as well, and got a far better sense for the feel of the show. It is really excellent! I have a feeling that every episode will need more than one viewing, to fully enjoy it.
    LOL Dude your enthusiasm is infectious.

    Tyrion and Ned are both great. Going to be a shame when Ned gets peaced out though. Sean Bean is a damn good actor.

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