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  1. #361
    Finished this a few days ago, overall enjoyed it a lot, prob more than I enjoyed Prince. Some parts, like the disturbing part discussed above were so engaging it was impossible to put the book down, in fact a few time's I missed my stop on the MRT cause I was so engrossed. Great stuff.

    There were a few things I wish had been gone into more though:

    Spoiler:
    The Prince of Arrows fate at the hands of his brother, I had been really enjoying the way Jorg was being played against the Prince, almost classic good vs. evil but with a lot more depth. I was psyched for their rematch only to have it revealed that Egan had killed his brother and now Jorg had to face him, essentially an evil vs. evil showdown. I felt his character was thrown aside after a lot of character building and would've liked if this showdown between the brothers (even if it was a stabbing in the back it could've been fleshed out) had been given more page-time, either in Katherines diary or through the dialogue between Jorg and Egan. I loved the colt 45 gunning down though, very reminiscent of that scene in Indiana Jones where Indy shoots the big guy after he does all his posing with his sword skills


    Spoiler:
    One thing that didn't quite hit home with me was the death of Degan at Jorgs hands, the way the memories sealed in the box were being played up throughout the book I was really expecting something super nasty to come out in the end and found the death of the baby due to Jorgs necromancy a bit of a letdown. I'd been bracing myself for something truly horrible, in comparison to the justice scene it just didn't have the same visceral impact, for me anyway. I did however LOVE how the box was used to hide Jorgs plans from other players and really enjoyed how his well laid schemes were revealed to such devastating effect!


    Great book though, looking forward to the conclusion of Jorgs journey next year,thanks for the journey Mark!
    Last edited by Redpred; October 5th, 2012 at 04:13 AM.

  2. #362
    The New ... MARK LAWRENCE Mark Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redpred View Post
    in fact a few time's I missed my stop on the MRT cause I was so engrossed.
    Now that would make a good cover quote

    Quote Originally Posted by Redpred View Post
    There were a few things I wish had been gone into more though:

    Spoiler:
    One thing that didn't quite hit home with me was the death of Degan at Jorgs hands, the way the memories sealed in the box were being played up throughout the book I was really expecting something super nasty to come out in the end and found the death of the baby due to Jorgs necromancy a bit of a letdown. I'd been bracing myself for something truly horrible, in comparison to the justice scene it just didn't have the same visceral impact, for me anyway. I did however LOVE how the box was used to hide Jorgs plans from other players and really enjoyed how his well laid schemes were revealed to such devastating effect!


    Great book though, looking forward to the conclusion of Jorgs journey next year,thanks for the journey Mark!
    Spoiler:

    I think the dog/baby issue will depend on the reader. The dog impact is very 'visual' and comes from a mixture of mechanical and immediate description. The baby impact is more psychological and comes from the roots of the character and his defining moments. Some readers will care more about the shattered bones of a dog - some will care more about the lost potential of a human child - and all will care in varying degrees about the types of harm those separate acts inflict upon Jorg as the author of them.

  3. #363
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    Essentially decided on this book for the setting, but I was surprised just how good it was. Seems like every time I'm ready for a long break from fantasy some author comes along, kicks me in the butt and drags me back. Jorg's a fascinating character.

  4. #364
    The New ... MARK LAWRENCE Mark Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokipokilo View Post
    Essentially decided on this book for the setting, but I was surprised just how good it was. Seems like every time I'm ready for a long break from fantasy some author comes along, kicks me in the butt and drags me back. Jorg's a fascinating character.
    Well that's very cool to hear! I read almost no fantasy for almost a decade and then along came GRRM and hauled me back in. Nice to do a small bit of dragging back myself

  5. #365
    The New ... MARK LAWRENCE Mark Lawrence's Avatar
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    w00t! King of Thorns is a nominee for the Goodreads best fantasy of 2012!

    http://www.goodreads.com/choiceaward...5-Best-Fantasy

    some stellar authors on the list - Stephen King, Robin Hobb! Also our own Michael Sullivan & those Brent Weeks & David Abrahams fellows. Terry Goodkind's there too - still shifting books off shelves at a huge rate of knots!

    How many of 'em have you read?

  6. #366
    Registered User Snowy's Avatar
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    Currently? King of Thorns only!

    May pick up some of the others at some stage, although I have just finished Mssr Abercrombie's latest before launching into the second in Justin Cronin's 'The Passage' series, and that is a bit of an epic so they may have to wait...

    EDIT: That means you got my vote by default, I even signed up to the site to do so.

    /wanders off muttering...
    Last edited by Snowy; October 31st, 2012 at 11:03 AM.

  7. #367
    The New ... MARK LAWRENCE Mark Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowy View Post
    Currently? King of Thorns only!

    May pick up some of the others at some stage, although I have just finished Mssr Abercrombie's latest before launching into the second in Justin Cronin's 'The Passage' series, and that is a bit of an epic so they may have to wait...

    EDIT: That means you got my vote by default, I even signed up to the site to do so.

    /wanders off muttering...
    Very much appreciated! Makes a huge difference to us little guys. Stephen King ... not so much!

    Actually the Stephen King book is the only other nominee book I've read and it was excellent. (Read Sullivan & Hobb but not the books on offer).

  8. #368
    Challenge Assumptions Pluvious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Lawrence View Post
    Great to hear the books were a hit with you.

    I've never read him but I hear (a lot) that Joe Abercrombie's work has some similarities, particularly in having protagonists who might feature as villains in other books.
    My two favorite current authors as a matter of fact...Abercrombie and Lawrence. I just heard about you recently and picked up the first book and read it last week. I bought the new hardcover of Kings yesterday.

    As far as the main character...he could be even more dark and it wouldn't bother me. As long as the character motivations make sense and interesting things are happening bring it on. In reality most of us "don't do bad stuff" because we can't get away with it really...or because its too hard to live that way. We need others. If you don't need others then not as much is stopping you and its interesting to explore that.

  9. #369
    200 pages in, i cannot remember the last time i was so fascinated with a lead character. probably kellhus.

    I can see why people would make comparisons to abercrombies world building-ish qualities. i find the pacing and voice really similar to richard morgan's kovacs books.

    this is excellent stuff sir.

  10. #370
    The New ... MARK LAWRENCE Mark Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andols View Post
    200 pages in, i cannot remember the last time i was so fascinated with a lead character. probably kellhus.

    I can see why people would make comparisons to abercrombies world building-ish qualities. i find the pacing and voice really similar to richard morgan's kovacs books.

    this is excellent stuff sir.
    Many thanks! I must read this Abercrombie person one day

    I saw the full cover for the final book today. 268 days to go! http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.co.u...-that-man.html

  11. #371
    New cover looks good mark i picked this up in BIG W in Australia (which is like k mart). Kudos to you as there's never... ever... any real fantasy in stores like this its mainly all YA fantasy and vampire books (I hate this Stuff).

    Congrats.. I havent read it yet but i really enjoyed Prince of Thorns so no doubt i'll enjoy this

  12. #372
    I like it, Mark! The first cover is still my favorite, but this one will be a worthy addition to the trilogy. :-)

  13. #373
    Cranky old broad AuntiePam's Avatar
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    Hadn't heard about the book(s) until I saw the nominations at Goodreads. I'm about halfway through Prince and enjoying it immensely. I was also having trouble with Jorg's age, but I've chosen to believe that a year in the Empire's world is longer than our year. Heck, the kid in The Walking Dead is supposed to be 12. Can anyone see Carl (even with burly friends and a bit of magic) doing what Jorg does? Sometimes the real world intrudes, even in fantasy, and if I'm enjoying everything about the book but this one little thing, it's best to find a work-around.
    Last edited by AuntiePam; November 23rd, 2012 at 06:47 PM. Reason: add a comma

  14. #374
    The New ... MARK LAWRENCE Mark Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuntiePam View Post
    Hadn't heard about the book(s) until I saw the nominations at Goodreads. I'm about halfway through Prince and enjoying it immensely. I was also having trouble with Jorg's age, but I've chosen to believe that a year in the Empire's world is longer than our year. Heck, the kid in The Walking Dead is supposed to be 12. Can anyone see Carl (even with burly friends and a bit of magic) doing what Jorg does? Sometimes the real world intrudes, even in fantasy, and if I'm enjoying everything about the book but this one little thing, it's best to find a work-around.
    A wise choice, ma'am! And directly in line with my own advice/thinking on the subject.

    From this interview: http://efjace.wordpress.com/2012/06/...mark-lawrence/


    Q2.I’ll be honest, one of the things that really made it difficult for me to get into the story was Jorg’s age (for our readers who don’t know, 14 for the majority of the book). Not because of the things he did but more so that he was able to lead a group of adult men and keep them in line. For others it was what they really loved about the book. How did you decide on Jorg’s age and did it present any difficulties in writing certain scenes? As you wrote the book, what sort of reactions did you anticipate getting in regards to his age?

    This one crops up quite a bit It surprises me, but then I’m surprised people like marmite or jazz. What surprises me most is that readers who accept fireballs, men who can fly, elves, dragons and unicorns (portly or otherwise) hit a brick wall when confronted by a boy who acts slightly older than advertised. Some even cite typical fourteen year old behaviour and limitations as if some law compelled me to pluck a fourteen year old at random off the shelf rather than select an extraordinary one to tell my tale about . . . And moreover in this genre where the reader is continually asked to exercise their imagination in rather dramatic ways . . . the obvious remedial steps seem quite beyond them. If his age offends you . . . tell yourself he’s older, tell yourself this race is slightly different from ours and matures earlier, tell yourself their years are longer than ours . . . jeeze, tell yourself whatever it is that makes you accept the teleporting intelligent elephant in the last book!

    With all that said it seems redundant to offer up real world present day examples of bandit gangs being led by children or an entire empire being built and ruled by a celebrated sixteen year old in our own history, or even that there is an iron-clad magical get-out clause in the book to sidestep and avoid every single thing I’ve just set out.

    But yes. At the end of it all, regardless, people have and will continue to stick on this point. I have no idea why.

    The reasons for the choice are simple and several-fold. Firstly the inspiration for the book was Burgess’ A Clockwork Orange wherein the violent protagonist is of a similar age leading a gang of older reprobates. Secondly, and for quite possibly similar reasons to Burgess, I chose a young age to cloud the issue of guilt in his crimes, to highlight the matter of nature vs nurture, to place the protagonist close to the events that have shaped him, to give him potential for growth, to explore the changes that are wrought in us through experience in contrast to those that occur through simply growing, and to focus on the business of moving from childhood to adulthood even when the former has been stolen rather than discarded.

    And to answer the question: no, it didn’t make any scenes more difficult to write.

  15. #375
    Cranky old broad AuntiePam's Avatar
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    Thanks, Mark. Those are good reasons.

    One thing in particular I like about Prince is that when Jorg is philosophizing, it's because he wants to be understood, or because he's trying to understand himself. In other novels (e.g., Bakker's Prince of Nothing), the philosophizing is more like pontificating. The author wants us to know what he thinks, but it's not for understanding -- it's for show. Your way is better, IMHO.

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