November 23rd, 2011, 09:35 AM
Seems I'm pretty inconsistent and incoherent with my thoughts lately. I kind of hoped he'd be a monster with a few redeeming qualities not the other way around, a good guy, with a monstrous past and a nasty streak
November 23rd, 2011, 09:52 AM
It lasted two, totalling 44 episodes. That's not exactly a bad run. It wasn't even terrible, it was just really, really cheesy.
Originally Posted by TooNice
November 23rd, 2011, 11:57 AM
The New ... MARK LAWRENCE
You might know how sales and publishers affect decisions like this... but I certainly don't.
Originally Posted by thrinidir
I wrote the book I wanted to write without the least consideration for sales or publishers. I didn't have any expectation that it would be published or sold, and I had no plans to send it to a publisher. The book in print is 99% the book I wrote, with most of the 1% being punctuation.
I find the most interesting characters to be ones built around contradictions that pull them in varying directions. To write a psycopath who just killed for no reason other than gratification and who never gave a second thought to alternative approaches would get old pretty fast for me. Might be great fun for three chapters though
November 24th, 2011, 01:55 AM
No, I don't claim I know how publishing business works, I merely speculate on the basis of what I do know about modern economy, general tastes and morals.
The short answer to my question woud be no then. The novel nevertheless steered my thoughts into uncharted directions and dared further than most novels I've read, which is definitely a big plus for me.
November 24th, 2011, 01:56 AM
Which is why it was terrible...
Originally Posted by Loerwyn
November 24th, 2011, 03:15 AM
Not really. Xena and Hercules were really cheesy too, but they were very popular and good in their own ways. Legend of the Seeker did have potential, but it really lost it in the second season. It's pretty much the same as what happened with Goodkind's books - they started off relatively well, but went bad.
Originally Posted by TooNice
November 24th, 2011, 03:48 AM
Lol....no really. Terrible shows. And Legend of the Seeker took itself much more seriously than them, so while it may not have been a problem for them it was definitely a problem for Legend of the Seeker. But whatever.
Originally Posted by Loerwyn
December 7th, 2011, 03:51 PM
arrived today - looking forward to starting it later! Nothing better than a new series, new world and coming recomended!!
December 9th, 2011, 07:28 AM
The New ... MARK LAWRENCE
Let me know how you get on with it! Sometimes too much anticipation can be a bad thing
Originally Posted by silvercue
December 13th, 2011, 12:50 AM
Prince of Thorns had been added to my "to be read" list. However comments here & reviews elsewhere have piqued my interest so much so that it'll be moved toward the top of the aforementioned list.
December 14th, 2011, 04:04 PM
I got it in the mail a few days ago. Some 200ish pages into it, not that that is saying a lot since the font is massive and there is like a page of white every 3 pages.
I really don't like this book so far. Ill finish it because something has to be utterly god awfull to not get me to finish it but...just...wow.
I think it's the main character more then anything. He's just so bland. Yeah i get it, he's angry all the time, does he have any other emotions?
For some reason in this world 14 year olds have little trouble curb stomping literally everyone that gets in their way. I am not sure if the author is actually aware that at 14 years old it's physically impossible to overpower anyone but the most out of shape 20-30 year olds.
But not Jorg the prince of angry, he just goes about being angry and punching if not stabbing people for little other reason then he's angry.
People also take suprisingly well to being bitch slapped by a 14 year old. One castle guard in particular seemed to be very much convinced to join a 14 year old's side after a threat that wouldn't scare a...well 14 year old.
All the other characters have names but i doubt anyone would be able to distinguish them. Their spectrum of emotions varies from angry to mean.
Frankly it feels like a fantasy book. And no i don't mean as in the fantasy genre. I mean that it feels like i am reading someone's fantasy. The narative being written in the I-form doesn't help ease that feeling either.
The main character just goes about being a dick to everyone and for some reason everyone loves it. He has but one emotion and people love it. Only in a fantasy do people gravitate so blindly to a character that can only be discribed as angry all the time.
Meanwhile this book falls into the trap of confusing insight with name dropping. Various names like Plato keep being brought up, hinting that this world is our world. The problem is though, just naming Plato doesn't really mean anything.
The character reads it but never in the book does any of Plato's actuall philosophy come back. Like i said, this book confuses insight with name dropping. Just saying "Plato, Socrates, Locke" doesn't mean anything other then the fact that you can remember their names. Actuall philosophy is nowhere to be found.
I am reminded of one book more then any other when reading this. "The left hand of god" by Paul Hoffman.
Much like this book i picked it up after having read few reviews and mostly being interested by the nice artwork on the cover. They do always say, don't judge a book by it's cover, but i suppose i am a sucker for good artwork.
The left hand of god also takes place in a world which appears to be our world.
It also has a leading character that can only switch between the emotional state of a zombie and a berserker. It's leading character also posses far more skill and credit then he realistically should. Maybe that book influenced this book, who knows.
If i had to point out what i think the major flaw is, it's motivation.
I can actually deal with dark brooding characters that have revenge on their mind. Characters that do morally questionable things. But for a character to "earn" that brooding and violent nature he needs to have proper motivation.
So what motivation does Jorg have? His mother and brother got killed infront of him. We get told this and supposedly we should care? These characters have not even had a single emotional scene together and the writer just tells us "It's his mother and brother, just assume he loves them".
A side-character in a book can have such a shallow motivation, but a main character?
We just get told that he loves his mother and his brother so greatly that it sends him off the deep-end when he dies, but since we never ever see any scenes between them, we don't have a clue as to how deep that relationship actually was.
A writer can write a single sentence in which every character in existence dies. Is that sad? Events in stories do not automatically carry the same weight as events in the real world.
If the writer does not create emotional attachment to things, places and characters in a story then what happens is just hollow.
We don't know anything about Jorg's past. We are just told to assume that he loved his mother and his brother so much that he turns into prince-angry-all-the-time. If someone loses a mother and a brother in real life, that is sad. If we just get told this in a story without any emotional attachement? Hell i wouldn't care if they played a puppet show with the corpses.
Ill be finishing the story soon enough but these first pages are not a good sign. The next big thing after GRRM? This ain't it.
December 15th, 2011, 09:23 AM
Not to disagree with your sentiment of the book, but it seems to me like you're overlooking and making a lot of assumptions at your convenience. For starters, you are aware that we're talking about a sociopath/psychopath right? And you want emotions?
As for motivations, well I won't go into that as I might spoil, but seems to me like you're not getting all that is in the book to me.
December 15th, 2011, 10:16 AM
Maybe he is a psychopath. That would explain the 1-dimensional character and utter lack of any emotion. That said i haven't actually read anything that defines him as either a psycho or just a bad guy with a poorly written spectrum of emotions (angry and really angry).
Originally Posted by Bastard
I am not against a psychopath character, albeit i would call it questionable how interesting such a character is as a main character. Psychopaths are not exactly known for their expansive emotional range.
But if a character is a psychopath, he needs to be either an antagonist or just a 'fun' psychopath.
By fun i mean he has to embrace the outright depravity of being what he is. What has Jorg done so far in the book? Raped some people, killed some people, and that's about it.
Even for a psychopath character he seems run of the mill. Is he as depraved and scary as "The mountain" from "Song of ice and fire"? Is he as emotionally hollow as Ikurei Conphas from "The Prince of Nothing"?
So even as a psycho he seems boring when compared to other psycho's.
I am at the part where Jorg is gonna set out with 200 people to capture the red fort which everyone says might even fail if you have 10.000 people.
Considering the self indulging fantasy that has been dominant so far i assume that he will probably end up face-raping the entire castle on his own.
Jorg feels like insanity wolf.
Guard shows you around the castle? Threaten to kill him.
Leader of the forest watch welcomes you to the team? Throw him off a cliff.
People say you need 10.000 soldiers? Go with 200.
Who knows, maybe the story will pull a 180 somewhere along the lines. I doubt it, but we shall see.
Last edited by Zalz; December 15th, 2011 at 10:30 AM.
December 15th, 2011, 01:48 PM
I'd personally call him a sociopath more than a psychopath, but that's a debate over definitions.
Originally Posted by Zalz
If you read the whole book, you'll find out one of the real reasons why he is both as sociopathic as he is, and why he is able to be so successful. Don't assume that you know the whole story at this point.
December 15th, 2011, 02:08 PM
There do seem to be two types of readers of this book. Those who get what Mark is trying to do w/Jorg and those that don't. I'm not sure either of us are right or wrong, but the book is solely dependent on Jorg working for you. If he doesn't, the book doesn't work.
Worked for me.