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  1. #91
    The epilogue will explain a lot.

    And Coltaine wasn't anti-climatic at all. The whole ordeal with Squint really did it for me. And what happened to Duiker sealed this as one of my all time favorite books.

  2. #92
    Coltaine was the very definition of climactic.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by End Of Disc One View Post
    Coltaine was the very definition of climactic.
    I guess. But his death was disappointing. My point was he was supposed to be something more, and he instead just died. In a very dramatized way, sure. Anyways I just read the epilogue. So I guess it's cool we will get to see him, in some form, again.

    And what happened to Duiker sealed this as one of my all time favorite books.
    From what I understand Quickben gave them a vial to use to take a persons soul so they do not die completely. And can be transferred back into a body. What did the Jaghut Tyrant have to do with that? The Gods laughter? Are you just happy he is not dead? I expected more.

    In conclusion.
    This was overall better than book1. It still started off really slow, and I hope book3 does not. I was just informed that ADWD was shipped, so I may take a break from Malazan to read that book. I also have Abercrombie's Heroes to read.

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by chris777 View Post
    I guess. But his death was disappointing. My point was he was supposed to be something more, and he instead just died. In a very dramatized way, sure. Anyways I just read the epilogue. So I guess it's cool we will get to see him, in some form, again.
    I would have thrown the book across the room and denounced Malazan and S.E. forever if that happened. The whole tragedy is that he did what was thought to be (and should have been) impossible, and yet fell due to the incompetence and cowardice of another man of his same rank. Sometimes life is not fair, but sometimes life is Coltaine.

    Also, seeing everyone dying around his was utterly heartbreaking for me. Uncle Bult, Corporal List who died all those times during mock battles, finally died, etc.

    From what I understand Quickben gave them a vial to use to take a persons soul so they do not die completely. And can be transferred back into a body.
    I was referring to the 10,000 who were martyred. For me, thats when Duiker's character finally became clear and the Chain of Dog's was finally done. I was actually pretty pissed off that Duiker had the vial, because that chapter had such a finality about it. Oh well, who knows what S.E. will do next.

    This was overall better than book1. It still started off really slow, and I hope book3 does not. I was just informed that ADWD was shipped, so I may take a break from Malazan to read that book.
    Book 3 starts slow. I am about 200 pages in, and nothing has really happened. But the good news is that Erikson's writing has visibly improved. It is not so much of a chore now.

    Have fun with DWD!

  5. #95
    the Thirsty thirstyVan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris777 View Post

    This was overall better than book1. It still started off really slow, and I hope book3 does not. I was just informed that ADWD was shipped, so I may take a break from Malazan to read that book. I also have Abercrombie's Heroes to read.
    I'm about a 3rd of the way into Memories of Ice and it's pretty good. Tragedy is right that the writing is improved. There are still a few things that get on my nerves but overall it's a pretty huge improvement over book 1.

    I enjoyed book 2 but wasn't in LOVE with it. Which was is pretty disappointing, I guess, since the impression I got pre-reading was that book 2 was amazing, possibly the best in the series. It was good, but my socks remain firmly on my feet.

    Something to look forward to in book 3, lots and lots of exposition. Yes, it's a little slow, but alot of things like warrens, ascendents and the nature of the Gods, the Crippled God, etc. is finally getting discussed and made a little clearer. And what (I suspect) is the overall plot of the series is finally becoming clearer as well. So that's good. Though it aggravates me that it took 3 books to finally get some of this info, that is really a failure on Erikson's part IMO.

    Caveat: As I've said before, I am listening to these on audio, not reading, so it IS possible that I may be more in the dark than I would be if I was actually reading. The narrator is awful, and I zone out sometimes. Though I do the same thing when actually reading so who knows.
    Last edited by thirstyVan; July 12th, 2011 at 01:08 PM.

  6. #96
    I would have thrown the book across the room and denounced Malazan and S.E. forever if that happened. The whole tragedy is that he did what was thought to be (and should have been) impossible, and yet fell due to the incompetence and cowardice of another man of his same rank. Sometimes life is not fair, but sometimes life is Coltaine.
    You would have thrown the book across the room if Coltain didn't die?

    Here is what I expected and what would have been awesome. I don't know how it would have been written into the story though.

    They said Coltain was fighting off hundreds of guys at once, and finally they just swarmed on him and you couldn't see him. Remember The Matrix, where all the Mr.Smith's swarm Neo? Then he just explodes with power and they all get thrown. I was hoping for that to happen, and Coltain to have Ascended, or finally grasped what power he had that was laying dormant. And he is able to barely escape limping back through the Aren gates, the lone survivor.

    If ADWD doesn't get here soon I'll have to start book 3. =)

  7. #97
    But that would have been cheesy Deus ex for no reason.

  8. #98
    The Hunter Rose Grendel.. Grendel's Avatar
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    I scanned the previous pages to see if anyone mentioned this and I didn't see it, so here goes!

    Tor.com has a great part of their site where they analyze, discuss, and recap chapter by chapter these (and other) books.

    Code:
    http://www.tor.com/features/series/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen
    If you click the Series at the top there are other books they do these with including A Song of Ice and Fire books. I have to say I gleaned alot of nuance that I missed in my 2 readings of GoT.

    Anyway, I plan on using this site chapter by chapter as a first time reader when I get around to these books.

  9. #99
    It's already been mentioned on the first page in the 2nd post.

  10. #100
    The Hunter Rose Grendel.. Grendel's Avatar
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    Lol. Guess I was looking for a coded link. Ah well. I feel suitably dumb. Should have known Rob would pounce on it. Always there with a quick answer.

  11. #101
    the Thirsty thirstyVan's Avatar
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    So i guess I get it now. Finally.

    I am about 2/3rds of the way through Memories of Ice. It's good. I like it. And over the course of the first couple books and this one, I've realized I really do like the world. It's very rich. And I like alot of the characters. And, even though it's pretty dark, I really like the story itself. It's interesting. I guess I'm finally invested.

    But I find I still have one small problem. THE problem, I imagine.

    Erikson is a terrible writer. Clearly he's very imaginative. Very creative. He has come up with a great story, in a great setting, populated with great characters. He's just awful at actually CONVEYING that story. And to an extent, the world itself.

    It's readable. For the most part. There are certainly parts of the books where I have literally NO IDEA what's going on, or who's who, or what's what. Treach/Trake Fenner? Warrens? Ascendents? K'Rul, Tisti Andi'i, Tilan Imass... I get it now, for the most part. It shouldn't have taken three books, and it's still not totally clear. But clear enough that I can get it. Alot of exposition occurred toward the beginning of MoI that cleared some things up.

    Just don't get me started on his names. Good god, the names. It's like, the Scooly wooly ran across a patrol of Bakalites, and the bakalites were reinforced with Scrumprumps. So the skooly wooly and the herumphadoos defeated the wigglypoops and what the **** just happened? i have no idea.


    A good epic like this NEEDS to take the time to build the world up for the reader, to introduce all the minutia that make up the world, to make the reader comfortable with those foreign concepts/characters/creatures. Erikson never took that time. He tosses the reader in head first and expects them to pick it up as they go along. Though I know people will disagree, I think it's sad that a reader needs to (essentially) takes notes to understand the basic plot, who the main cast is, etc. I have found myself spending alot of time of the Malazan wiki, just familiarizing myself with the world, or clarifying a character or race or what have you.

    Some people are going to be more willing to invest that kind of time and effort. Some aren't. That's not really my complaint. The complaint is, the reader shouldn't HAVE to. And it's a pretty massive failure on the writers part that they do.

    But, as I said, the story itself is good. The series has alot going for it. I'm invested, and I will almost certainly read it to its conclusion. I just needed to rant.

  12. #102
    Erikson said
    A general rule for the insertion of glottal stop apostrophes is that, in Imass language, it confers past-tense.
    Just a quick note that the names are weird, but a lot of them are weird for a reason. He has constructed a language for some of these. It's not just random thrown together names.

    I don't think SE is a bad writer. I think sometimes he tries too hard to be poetic in his writing, and it just comes across..corny. I also think throwing you headfirst into the world and forced to figure it out as you go along, was the whole point. It wasn't like he's not a good enough writer to do it how most Epic Fantasies do. It was more like, this was his PLAN. He wanted to to be exactly what it is. Enormous, Confusing, Exciting.

    Being forced to wiki things and lookup past info is a pain. And a lot of times, for me, it ends up that you see some spoiler you shouldn't have. Never read wiki's of a book you aren't finished with. But sometimes you have no choice if you want to continue reading w/out confusion.

  13. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by thirstyVan View Post
    Erikson is a terrible writer.
    Heh. Comparatively, yes. But he stands strong on his own merits I do think.

    My biggest gripe with Erikson is that I have to swade through cardboard characters who have no personality, in order to tell a story, and it takes me some good amount of effort to try and piece the shreds of characterization together so I understand a character.

    This was why GotM was such an failure in my eyes. There are characters who I dont give 2 shits about, and alot of magic and fighting and big explosions. At the same time Erikson makes me feel stupid for not understanding the world, and tries to please me mockingly with this childish stuff. At no point in the ****ing book could I feel smart.. Either I had no idea what was going on, or I felt like I was reading a DnD novel....

    This problem is popping up again in MoI. In DG he managed to characterize Felisin and co. really well, and some people in Chain of Dogs actually had a personality. It is always the ****ing bridgeburners that are 2D and it is annoying as hell.

    His writing is also really fast paced and doesnt allow you to absorb the settings and characters and feel of the world. I am doing a 5 day crush session of FFC/DWD and I can see why GRRM is so treasured. His writing fits so perfectly with his story. Sure, he takes 20 pages to do something that Erikson could do in 3, but it allows you to care for the character, and immerse yourself in the setting. Thus lies the fundamental problem (IMO) of Erikson's writing - its too big. It is just too much. But lets save that rant for another day.

    I am invested in the series, and DG is one of my all time favorite books (mostly carried by the Chain of Dog's sequence), but I cant help but often face-palming whilst reading Erikson.

  14. #104
    This series burnt me out, to the point I couldn't find that extra bit of energy to finish it off. Which is pretty sad since I'm in the middle of Toll the Hounds, with only the rest of that, plus two other books to go. But I just can't do it.

    It was great to start, but eventually there just seemed to be way too many POVs, and way too many plots to follow. I think the former more than the latter soured me on finishing the series.

  15. #105
    I think that having to publish a book year has taken a toll on Erikson. The last three book in the series could have really benefited if they had taken longer to write. I remember reading that Erikson's father had died while he was in the middle of writing the eight book in the series. If he had taken the time off, that book would have been much, much tighter.

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