Quibbles (PROBABLE SPOILERS!! Non-readers, play safe and stay out)

**kged** · May 10th, 2011, 08:27 PM

Maybe it's because I can't sleep, maybe it's because I'm just naturally curmudgeonly, but I feel a need for a griping thread. We are all (me included) gushing wildly over the show, and I instinctively want to balance that with a little corner of the board for complaints, queries, and general whiny piffle about the little (or big) things in the show which are not as we would like them.

Actually I may be letting myself down here by kicking off with what borders on a serious question - in the conversation in ep3 where Ser Jorah and Rakharo are swapping professional opinions, Ser Jorah says that a broadsword's main job is to pierce plate armour. Does that sound right to any resident sword buffs? I'm sure I've read recently that the general current school of thought is that swords were for cowing the populace (i.e. unarmoured civilians), and perhaps equally for simply showing that one was of the knightly classes and above, but that for combat against an armoured knight they wouldn't do much more than inflict bruises; the tool for the job of killing a man in armour being a warhammer, or poleaxe. Any thoughts?

Quibble 2: they say "Dothrakki", not "Dothrarki". Being from England may be in factor in this one...

Quibble 3: I don't like the pronounciation of "Hoe-dur" either. Too much like odour! In my head it was always "Hoddor", and even though that's clearly wrong it still feels right to me.

Come along, one and all, join in the snarkery! We need some antidote to the lovefest!

**columbob** · May 11th, 2011, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by kged

Quibble 2: they say "Dothrakki", not "Dothrarki". Being from England may be in factor in this one...

That's how I always pronounced it. There's no R after the A, I don't know how you ended up with that pronounciation. It's either long A or short A.

**Slynt** · May 11th, 2011, 08:20 AM

Ooooh, a thread for whining, just my kind of thing. Always pronounced it doth-RAH-kee, by the way.

1) King's Landing: Doesn't look like the city as described in the books at all. Far too mediterranean for my tastes.

2) Kit Harrington's performance in Episodes 1-2

3) Decrease of titties per episode

4) Winterfell establishing shots. Looks like a Star Wars town with those weird tower roofs.

5) Direwolves almost absent much of the time. Especially Ghost. So weird when he suddenly appears as if out of a portal through time and space in Ep 4.

6) I feel the directing isn't that interesting in the first two episodes for many reasons.

7) The whole prologue bit is off.

8) Pacing is occasionally off.

9) Feels like characters are teleporting between locations, no feel of the relative distances between places

10) Marillion

11) Renly

12) Dragon eggs look dodgy

13) Khal Drogo's eyeliner

14) Some awkward acting in a few scenes (not many fortunately); thinking primarily of Arya when she talks to her dead sitting on the chest in Ep 3, and Daenerys talking to Jorah about how crap her brother is in Ep 4 (the maester's path scene), Yoren

15) Bit unfair to complain about stuff that is not in there (like the direwolves) but ... I miss certain things. Simple as that.

16) The soundtrack...bland

17) Completely understandable from a technical point of view, but I miss the grandieur and scope of the novel; everything is so small, like the tourney of the hand

18) Petyr Baelish is far too wooden

19) Sandor Clegane is meh

I'll stop here lest you think I don't enjoy the TV series, 'cause I do. So for balance, here are 19 things I really dig as well:

1) Mark Addy as Robert Baratheon, really good performance

2) The swapping war stories scene in Ep 3 is perfect

3) Love the scene where Tyrion comes to break fast with his siblings at Winterfell (Episode 2)

4) Peter Dinklage owns even though the character isn't exactly novel-like

5) Sean Bean is great

6) The Syrio Forel/Arya scene in Ep3 is lovely

7) The series is highly entertaining

8) Lots of lovely nods to readers of the series that fly by non-readers

9) Strong performances almost all across the board

10) Daenerys naked

11) The Castle Black scenes in Ep 3 and especially Ep 4 really come close to the feel of the novel

12) Love that scene with Old Nan and Bran ("I know a tale about a boy...")

13) Episodes have exciting endings so far

14) Loved the Mycah/Joffrey/Arya/Sansa-scene.

15) The "new" scenes are for mostly improvements

16) Mixing up Bran waking up with Lady going down was clever

17) The banter between Jory Cassel and Ser Jaime in Ep 4

18) Scene decoration is often top-notch and detailed; Grand Maester Pycelle's office is a good example

19) Lots of dialogue straight from the book

**End Of Disc One** · May 11th, 2011, 08:24 AM

Sansa can't pronounce her sister's name.

**Slynt** · May 11th, 2011, 08:28 AM

Nobody can

They all say "ajja" or something.

**kged** · May 12th, 2011, 03:35 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAARRGGH

I am now aware that Bronn is played by Jerome Flynn.

JEROME FLYNN.

Yes, that one.

Overseas folk may be baffled here; let me explain that Jerome Flynn is half of one of the most execrable "double acts" of all time, Robson & Jerome. They were actors in a very low quality military soap opera together, and then started releasing records...yes, it really is as atrocious as that makes it sound. I mean, come on - BRONN doing this?

So now I already hate Bronn, after one line in ep4. Damn, he is going to have to be GOOD to win me round.

**Ornery Wyvern** · May 12th, 2011, 08:21 PM

Wow, I would have been a lot happier had the other half of Robson and Jerome been cast, because he was excellent - and rather Bronnish -in the latest series of being Human. But I'm not too worried, the casting has been excellent so far, I look forward to seeing how it plays out.

**Evil Agent** · May 12th, 2011, 09:33 PM

Re: Jerome Flynn as Bronn. Many people had the same reaction as you... until they saw him in character. Mark my words, he's going to be one of those bits of awesome surprise casting you never saw coming (kind of like how everyone doubted Mark Addy at first).

**Orbison** · May 14th, 2011, 10:57 PM

I'm unimpressed with the architecture of Winterfell and King's Landing too. Those weird towers in Winterfell are ridiculous, and I'm surprised GRRM let them go ahead.

Scale is another issue I have but at least it can be forgiven to an extent, given that it's a TV programme. The Dothraki Khalasar isn't nearly big enough, nor are some of the external scenes like the Tourney of the Hand. There are also a distinct lack of wide shots, or establishing shots when we focus on a different set of characters.

I think a bit of tasteful CGI would fix many of these problems.

**Evil Agent** · May 14th, 2011, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Orbison

I'm unimpressed with the architecture of Winterfell and King's Landing too. Those weird towers in Winterfell are ridiculous, and I'm surprised GRRM let them go ahead.

The choice was not GRRM's. It was made by the production designer, and I don't think GRRM was even asked for his approval on those sorts of details. He himself has said that the show looks different from how he imagines it, but still good.

**tragic** · May 17th, 2011, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by kged

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAARRGGH

I am now aware that Bronn is played by Jerome Flynn.

JEROME FLYNN.

Yes, that one.

Overseas folk may be baffled here; let me explain that Jerome Flynn is half of one of the most execrable "double acts" of all time, Robson & Jerome. They were actors in a very low quality military soap opera together, and then started releasing records...yes, it really is as atrocious as that makes it sound. I mean, come on - BRONN doing this?

So now I already hate Bronn, after one line in ep4. Damn, he is going to have to be GOOD to win me round.

No way! That's amazing. I'd completely forgotten about them. Don't be too harsh on the boy though; remember, Ian MacShane made his breakthrough in fecking Lovejoy.

My gripes:

1. Sean Bean. Controversial, I know, but I just don't buy him. He's not hard enough. Perhaps I'm just biased after his turn as the most irritating computer game character of all time in Oblivion.

2. The sex is a little bit Channel 5 (another Brit only reference I guess - C5 made a reputation for sticking low-brow US soft porn 'thrillers' and much loved 1970s British sex comedies on its late night slots).

3. Sandor Clegane's awesome - but not on screen enough!

4. A little too much Basil Exposition stuff.

**kged** · May 17th, 2011, 02:52 PM

I may have to eat this one. Still early days, but based on last night he seems to be an unexpectedly convincing Bronn. Evil Agent's prediction may be coming true.

It occurred to me on the way home tonight that if I hadn't read the books, I'd have no idea why Tyrion is called "The Imp". Dinklage's performance is superb - but I'm feeling more and more like he isn't performing the Tyrion we know from the page. He's got all the smart, and the witty, and the dreadnought-sized confidence, but where is the trickiness? That may be impending, given that we are now at The Eyrie and his silver tongue is going to be sorely needed soon, but he is definitely "nicer" than in the books. At least up to now.

Today's minor quibble - why do people keep calling Arya "boy"? She's cute as a button!

Oh yeah - am I the only person in the world who really likes exposition? I look forward to it; it makes any film or tv show deeper and richer, for me. I want to know why as well as what.

**Evil Agent** · May 17th, 2011, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by kged

Today's minor quibble - why do people keep calling Arya "boy"? She's cute as a button!

Girls in that world usually dress like Sansa (pretty dresses, fancy hair, etc.). Arya was wearing pants and a shirt (boy's clothing), and was filthy. She still looks like a girl to us, but I don't think it's that big of a stretch for someone to mistake her for a boy.

Did anyone notice she's suddenly sporting the same hairstyle as Sean Bean? She looked like a little mini-Ned, especially when standing next to him. I loved that!

**thirstyVan** · May 17th, 2011, 06:24 PM

I don't have much in the way of nitpicks. They gotta do what they gotta do, after all. I think it's all a little too rushed, but again... meh.

But srsly. What the hell happened Sunday night. Did they really need to shoehorn in the relationship between Renley and Loras? Where the heck did that come from? I mean, I vaguely remember it being subtly hinted at in the series. Maybe... I can't remember all the details that well.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Oh, and did they kill Jorry (sp?)? Cos wtf?!?! He's kind of important later on!