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  1. #1
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    I LOVE ASoIaF ... but...

    I am an old grumpy guy and have really enjoyed the writing and stories of GRRM every since I read Fevre Dream so long ago I can't remember when it was exactly. I found Game of Throne about 4 or 5 years ago and books 1-4 were already written and I was able to pour through them. I loved them! It is an amazing story with a lot of depth and different points of view. This quickly became my favorite series I have ever read, but not to the point that I dote on the the guys every written word (unlike some of the more doe-eyed lovers of Rothfuss' every word for example). Here is what has begun to drive me crazy as I read ADWD (and admittedly enjoyed it a great deal!).

    In another thread someone mentioned the phrase "Words are Wind" as being used a bit too much in ADWD. I remember thinking... it's a good phrase... I like it. I began to think of it as I listened to members of Congress talk about the national debt. Then I began to read ADWD. After a long and frustrating wait, I have really enjoyed the book but since someone planted that seed I am stuck hating Martin's overuse (IMO) of these things..
    1) "Words are wind"
    2) "Little and less"
    3) "Much and more"
    4) "useless as nipples on a breastplate"
    My problem is the number of times these are used, but also the wide variety of people... of different parts of that world... of different backgrounds ....different dialects ... high and low born alike.... who use these same phrases. Not saying this should bother anyone else, and I liked the book, just saying these were used too much and that I may not have even noticed if one of you jackwagons here hadn't planted the seed in my mind!

  2. #2
    Lemurs!!! Moderator Erfael's Avatar
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    Can't say most of these bothered me. I did notice 4 happening a few times, but did it come from any non-Lannisters? I remember it in a Tyrion and in a Cersei, but not otherwise.

  3. #3
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    None of them bothered me until someone pointed out the frequent use of "Words are wind" by so many characters in so many different places and situations. I could be mistaken but I think Dany used the "Nipples" phrase once a world away and before coming into contact with any Lannisters. I will need to re-read that though because I'm questioning myself on it since you asked.

    Incidentally, none of them bothered me enough to make a dent in my enjoyment of the story and the book in general.

  4. #4
    Analyze That
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    Yeah. Everyone seems to have their own little catchphrase that they use over and over and over again:

    Like:
    Jon: "You know nothing, Jon Snow." It was cool when Mel said it, but then it kept on coming over and over and over again.

    Dany: "If I look back, I am lost." I can't even remember where she got that from.

    Tyrion: "Where do whores go?"

    Jaime: "She's been %^&#$%@ Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy, for all I know."

    Everyone: "Dark wings, dark words."

    There's probably way more. It's just part of Martin's writing style. I can see how it gets annoying though.

  5. #5
    the Rake
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    these bothered me as well. I understand the repetition of some for thematic and/or plot purposes but the degree often seems heavy handed. I also get that he's trying to establish idioms to flesh out the world-building but I feel it's overdone. My only real complaint with his writing.

  6. #6
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    I guess these two:

    Tyrion: "Where do whores go?"

    Jaime: "She's been %^&#$%@ Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy, for all I know."

    don't bother me (yet) because they are words that are rattling around in the minds of these two characters and have a direct impact on their decisions and actions in some ways. But they do recur...

    I feel a little silly for bringing these things up since I enjoyed all the books so much, just a pet peeve I guess. I can live with it since it means I get to enjoy such interesting and complex characters as I read such a good story.

    So let me end by saying two things....

    "Hodor Hodor Hodor Hodor Hodor Hodor Hodor Hodor" and
    "Corn Corn Corn Corn Corn Corn"

    Neither of these two bothered me at all when I read them myself, but when I listened to the audio versions they sounded way different that when I read them. I guess I just skipped over the repetition and moved on while Roy Dotrice has to read every word out loud.

  7. #7

    In the spirit of this thread...

    I, like Twinner caught on to TSoIaF after they were written and loved the character development and point-of-view writing style. Now that I have to wait for the last book (or two) to come out I want more of that style!

    The one thing I didnt like throughout the series was the graphic detail that GRRM went into while describing the sex scenes and twisted violent acts (Reek and the two boys in ASOS). Dont get me wrong, I like the dark aspect of these characters, I just wish it could be more left to the reader's imagination. Can anyone out there help me find such a series?
    Last edited by heapdogg; August 6th, 2011 at 12:22 AM. Reason: misspelling

  8. #8
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    Dark characters, shady dealings, terrible things happening but not right out in the open but left to the imagination.... When I want that I turn on C-Span to watch the House of Representatives here in the US.

    When I went looking for things fill the gap after I had read all the Ice and Fire that had been written the things that filled the void best for me were:

    Anything by Joe Abercrombie, but I liked Best Served Cold the best.
    Lynch's The Lies of Locke Lamora.
    I also really enjoyed The Name of the Wind but don't really count it as being in the same style. Martin is more meat and less flowers while to me Rothfuss is more flowers and less meat. (I realize that this last statement might only make sense to me.)

  9. #9
    Gloriam Imperator kged's Avatar
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    I would have no objection to "words are wind" or "the hour of the X", if they'd been in the books from the start. It's perfectly reasonable for this world to have its own proverbs and cliches - "a game of thrones" rather leaps to mind - but to suddenly introduce new ones feels a bit off. It breaks continuity. "Dark wings, dark words" goes back to the earlier books IIRC, and is a perfectly acceptable phrase for me.

    You what I am sick to death of? Summer Islanders being described as having "skin as black as coal/midnight/maester's ink", and wearing a cloak of coloured feathers. It seems like it's every single time one of them crops up, even the most fleeting peripheral character, he wheels that one out again. WE KNOW. BLACK, WITH FEATHERS. GIVE IT A REST.

  10. #10
    Lord Of Mejik Vooloc's Avatar
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    wow heres one i cannot believe yous havnt all jumped on, as i was reading adwd every time a charcter thought to themselves "hes not wrong" i was mentally screaming, ffs just say "he was right" once in a while.
    i definetly agree with whoever said it above me that this book is almost all filler too. no where near enough true story progretion, George just needs to get back to a few core charcters.

  11. #11
    I lifed ASOFAI well enough, but I'm trying to forget it now. Otherwise, the wait for book 6 would be impossible. He supposedly isnt even turning to it until 2012.

    As for the repetetive phrases, some of them did get to be a little much. Not so much Tyrion or Jamie, as those were rattling around in their head, but the ones all characters over-use.

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