Star Wars: The Old Republic, MMO discussion

[hippokrene]

Well, I've finally been invited into the beta of the new Star Wars MMO this weekend. Against my better judgement, I'm going to give it a try (and hopefully get my wife hooked too). It's either this, or go back to WoW (for the 4th time), and I just can't take that again.

I've been in beta for several months now. I hope you enjoyed yourself.

What class did you play? How did you like the storyline? Was there anything you found frustrating, or didn't understand?

It'll be 2012 at least by the time they're implemented.

It'd be great to have, but in a way I'm not actually sure I'm going to bother. It might be a case of too-little-too-late, but I'm not sure I particularly want to support it. LucasArts (and the Lucas estate in general) have been very obtuse when it comes to same-sex relationships in the Star Wars universe (I believe you can count the canonically gay characters from any medium on one hand), and the fact it's been "cut for post-release" in order to improve the release features is annoying - why couldn't they cut opposite-sex too? I'm not suggesting it's done to slight people, but there's many, many, many instances of content being cut, the publisher/developer announcing it'll appear and then it doesn't.

I'm not going to be holding my breath, and after I saw this from one of the writers of The Secret World (he also wrote The Longest Journey and Dreamfall, two of my favourite games), I think I'll go with the game that is more open from the start.

1. Will you please stop saying they 'cut' same sex romances? You can't cut something that's not there.

2. BioWare created Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, and Knights of the Old Republic, all of which had same-sex romances for the player character.

3. There have been no romances at all announced for the Secret World. You seem to be suggesting that because BioWare is open about its plans for same-sex romance and Tornquist says nothing about it, the Secret World is going to have them on launch. This despite the fact that Tornquist has never worked on a game where the PC could actually have a same-sex romance.

I have been off MMO's for a few years now. Nothing ever compared to Everquest.

SWTOR might pull me back in.

TOR is nothing like Everquest. It's very much a linear theme-park game with a nice story, but IIRC Everquest was far more open world.

[fluffy bunny]

A friend who's part of the beta did comment:

Played DCUO, seems the lag problem is fixed. I'm not so bothered for DCUO, but I was quite worried about Guild Wars 2, as it will follow a similar reaction based system. Lag simply kills those systems, so hopefully GW2 will be able to react to problems as the developers have done in this case. While playing my quick blast, I was reminded why I like SWTOR so much, and since the non-disclosure agreement has been lifted, and you seemed interested in the game, I can give you a lowdown.

In DCUO, and indeed many MMOs, the 'quests' that you are given are in text format with some lame arse reason why you need to go and kill 10 rats. Levelling in those games is a chore that you have to go through to practice using your character so that you can either play endgame PvP or trawl through endgame dungeons for ever more powerful loot. Not so in SWTOR. Each class, of which there are 8 in total, 4 Republic, 4 Sith, has it's own voice acted, cutscene driven story similar to what you would expect in a Bioware single player game. Now, I'm not saying the stories are 'Babylon 5 seasons 1-3' good, but neither are they 'Star Wars prequels' bad. I haven't played any past level 18, but they're certainly decent for a video game, they feel Star Wars, and are of a similar standard to the story from KOTOR, though none have yet had the amazing twist that story had. They're perhaps more personal than many single player game stories (after all you're one among many, rather than being a galaxy saving hero) but still many times better than the stories in other MMOs, even Guild Wars which I thought was a good effort.

So, you get cutscenes, and a decent story to drive you forward. Side quests too are voice acted and avoid, for the most part, the annoying 'kill 30 gorillas' grind quests common in other games. (One reason I only played DCUO for a few minutes tonight was when I got my quest and saw I had to kill 30 gorillas, 10 gorilla lieutenants and destory 10 gorilla generators). There are a certain amount of fetch quests, or destroy item quests, but because the quest is given in a cutscene you feel you're doing so for a reason (looking for someone's kid brother, stealing holorecordings for Imperial Intelligence etc.). It's very, very easy to immerse yourself in the roleplaying aspect of this game. Another good aspect is that certain quest areas are instanced for your party only, avoiding the problems that can be caused if lots of players are doing the same quest and need the same mobs or items.

There are also harder quests for skilled single players or groups called Heroics (2+ and 4 indicating number of players required). These Heroic quests are usually quite quick to complete, 10-15mins or so. The SWTOR equivalent of 'dungeons' are called Flashpoints. These are meant for parties of 4 people, have their own self-contained story, and are usually completeable in 60-90 mins. They're also a blast.

SWTOR has 4 basic classes for each faction, and each basic class has 2 advanced classes. The factions are balanced since there are direct equivalents on each side, that is to say mechanically, their abilities are identical, but stylistically they're very different, and have different story arcs. e.g. the Republic Commando has a Mortar attack with it's huge assault cannon, and the Bounty Hunter has the attack 'Death from Above' where it flies into the air then shoots wrist rockets. Both do the same AoE damage but look massively different. One nice thing is that nearly all the classes are 'dual-role' and can spec into two of either damage, healer or tank, meaning you can switch due to what your party needs, or indeed just what you feel like playing.

You pick your basic class at the start, and then your advanced class at level 10. You cannot change your advanced class once you've picked.

Classes
Basic - Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior - melee focused force user. Uses the force mainly for melee attacks or defence.
Leads to Advanced Classes -
Jedi Guardian/Sith Juggernaut which is a single saber heavy armour tank/melee damage class or
Jedi Sentinel/Sith Avenger(?) which is a dual saber wielding DPS class

My highest character is a Jedi Guardian. Good fun.

Basic - Jedi Consular/Sith Inquisitor - focused on using the force mainly from range.
Leads to advanced classes -
Jedi Sage/Sith Sorceror which is the 'caster' class ranged force damage/healing class. Sorceror is the one if you want to toss lightning around like the Emperor. Sage is not quite so appealing to me since the light side equivalent of force lightning is a load of pebbles.
Jedi Shadow/Sith Assassin which is a double bladed lightsaber user (a la Darth Maul) that can use stealth and is a tank/melee damage character.

Basic - Trooper/Bounty Hunter - heavily armoured ranged blaster damage dealer.
Leads to advanced classes
Commando/Mercenary which is a heavily armoured healer or ranged damage dealer. They do an awesome amount of AoE damage.
Vanguard/Powertech which is a tank/damage character.

Basic - Smuggler/Imperial Agent - only class I haven't played. Medium armour, only class that can take cover behind objects (like Gears of War)
Advanced Classes
Sniper/Gunslinger which is 100% ranged DPS or
Scoundrel/Operative which is a melee DPS/healing character


You also get to collect companions, similar to KOTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate etc, but you can only ever be accompanied in combat by one of them. I think this works out nicely, as it felt in Guild Wars as if the game was playing itself sometimes when you had 7 heroes and henchmen with you, but at least you can have a pet to tank, heal or DPS as you see fit. The other companions don't just sit around though, they can be sent to gather materials, or craft new items while you're off questing, taking some of the tedium away from that aspect of the game.

There's also a ton more stuff that I won't mention now since it would spoil that particular experience in the game - I've tried to keep it as generic as possible .

[Loerwyn]

1. Will you please stop saying they 'cut' same sex romances? You can't cut something that's not there.

No, I won't, because it was a cut. They cut that content in order to meet release. Why just same-sex? Why not opposite-sex, or the romance structure as a whole? Why that one kind? I'm not - and will never - imply they're doing it to slight the LGBT population, nor those interested in same-sex relationships in games, but it is a worrying prospect. Many times has content been cut, or in order to please yourself, been creatively delayed before release but has never seen the light of day. That is what I fear will happen with TOR.

2. BioWare created Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, and Knights of the Old Republic, all of which had same-sex romances for the player character.

Your point? They're different games, the last of which was part of an established franchise that BioWare had little to no control over. Juhani is a lesbian, and she is one of the few openly gay characters in Star Wars. With the other three games, so what? They're BioWare's own games, and actually same-sex has only been possible for the female Shepard in ME2 with Kelly (it's really confusing as to whether being with an Asari would count as same-sex or not due to conflicting information in-game), whereas a male Shepard has gone without and will continue to do so until Mass Effect 3 next year.

3. There have been no romances at all announced for the Secret World. You seem to be suggesting that because BioWare is open about its plans for same-sex romance and Tornquist says nothing about it, the Secret World is going to have them on launch. This despite the fact that Tornquist has never worked on a game where the PC could actually have a same-sex romance.

Ragnar has been open to different sexualities in games for years. The Longest Journey has two openly-lesbian characters in it, and that fact was never glossed over. That attitude, to me, is one I am much more willing to support, plus I think Ragnar is a better writer than many in the industry. I don't need playable romances to enjoy a game, but if they're being added then I expect - especially from a company like BioWare - for them to cater for those of us who happen to enjoy those of the same gender as us. If a writer says there will be gay characters in a game or that sexuality may come into it somehow, then I'm all for it. To me, that is better than just "tacking" same-sex content on post-release.

[NickeeCoco]

How about we discuss the game and not about whether or not you want to see same sex partnerships in a game? We're here to discuss an MMO, not gender politics.

Another good aspect is that certain quest areas are instanced for your party only, avoiding the problems that can be caused if lots of players are doing the same quest and need the same mobs or items.

This. There are also areas which are for you only. They pertain only to the character you are playing. So, even if you're grouped up with another Smuggler, let's say, only you can go in there. If the other person is a Smuggler and they have that quest too, they can go in, but you're in separate instances, doing your own thing. These are usually only 5-10 mins areas. It is nice, because then you're not waiting for things to respawn.

[Jon Sprunk]

I just got an email today saying that the early access period will be 7 days instead of 5. There is no sane reason I should be as eager as I am.

[NickeeCoco]

I just got an email today saying that the early access period will be 7 days instead of 5. There is no sane reason I should be as eager as I am.

From what I read it said that 7 days was a possibility, not an actuality, or have they decided for sure?

[Jon Sprunk]

Yes, it depends on how early you pre-ordered the game. I'm hoping I was among the first wave.

I mean, it shouldn't matter to me. It's just a game. But, man, I'm already salivating for it, emailing guildies about it everyday.

[Jon Sprunk]

I got in yesterday. Wow, I'm loving it so far.

The cut-scene-style questing really sucks you into the story. I hope it's as polished through-out the game.

[NickeeCoco]

/sigh I Pre-Ordered the Collector's Edition, but haven't finished paying it off. I won't have access until. . . the actual launch.

[Ocajnik]

you should have gotten a code to redeem on the sw:tor site when you pre-ordered for early access. You didn't need the actual game code.

[Jon Sprunk]

After a few days, I'm just loving this game. Not perfect, but probably the best mmo launch I've ever seen. My biggest complaint right now are the long queue waits, but I understand they are temporary.

[Glelas]

So far so good. Pretty solid MMO. A bit linear for the first 10 levels but once you hit 10/11 the game really opens up.

I am running a jedi consular and when I got my lightsaber and earned the title of jedi it was actually pretty cool. That is also when the "tutorial" ends (at level 10) and the game begins.

[PeterWilliam]

So far so good. Pretty solid MMO. A bit linear for the first 10 levels but once you hit 10/11 the game really opens up.

I am running a jedi consular and when I got my lightsaber and earned the title of jedi it was actually pretty cool. That is also when the "tutorial" ends (at level 10) and the game begins.

What's the current max level in that game?

[Glelas]

What's the current max level in that game?

I believe it is 50 right now.

[Luya Sevrein]

It's a single-player game with instances and a monthly fee.

...And the most hallerious cut scene action graphics ever.

In it's defense, the trailers were more interesting than the actual movies. =D