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  1. #16
    Live Long & Suffer psikeyhackr's Avatar
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    Space Opera is bad by the original definition.

    The usage seems to have changed

    http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/2...rnCD/index.htm

    http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/

    psik

  2. #17
    \m/ BEER \m/ Moderator Rob B's Avatar
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    Hey psik,

    Is it safe to assume what you are pointing out on the Cryoburn CD link is this Space Opera, Miles, and Me?

  3. #18
    The books I'm looking for are large-scale epics. That's the way I view Space Opera. Think Star Wars.

    I looked up Pushing Ice, and it sounds like a lot of dry technology information... Maybe I'm interested in the wrong genre...

    I'm willing to look into other Sci-Fi books, as well. It doesn't just have to be Space Opera. Really, anything with 3-dimensional characters and well-written. I know the first request is a rarity in SF (seems especially rare in Space Operas), but do you guys know of any?

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Danogzilla View Post
    I was looking at his House of Suns, have you read it/have any thoughts on it?
    It's good but as far as Reynolds goes it's one of his weaker entries. He seems to be in a bit of a funk as his last two, House of Suns and Terminal World are my least favorite. Pushing Ice has to be the easiest Reynolds to start with. It's a standalone and reminds me alot of the Rama books. Lots of people start with Revelation Space since it begins his main universe. I loved it but its a mixed bag for some people and I can see why others are turned off. I started with the three Revelation Space books which I liked alot, then read Chasm City which sealed the deal with me and I will read anything Reynolds puts out. I wouldn't start with Chasm City though as it refers to things that happened in the main trilogy.

  5. #20
    Live Long & Suffer psikeyhackr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob B View Post
    Hey psik,

    Is it safe to assume what you are pointing out on the Cryoburn CD link is this Space Opera, Miles, and Me?
    Actually, I hadn't read it.

    http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7...and%2520Me.doc

    I tend to think in terms of the original meaning of Space Opera. I would not apply that term to Bujold's work. She makes characters more interesting than the Big Three but it takes more writing to do that. More words, fewer ideas.

    psik

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderCrawler View Post
    The books I'm looking for are large-scale epics. That's the way I view Space Opera. Think Star Wars.

    I looked up Pushing Ice, and it sounds like a lot of dry technology information... Maybe I'm interested in the wrong genre...

    I'm willing to look into other Sci-Fi books, as well. It doesn't just have to be Space Opera. Really, anything with 3-dimensional characters and well-written. I know the first request is a rarity in SF (seems especially rare in Space Operas), but do you guys know of any?
    Pushing Ice isn't really Space Opera. The whole book takes place on a single spaceship that has virtually no contact with the outside world. I didn't find it to be dry or full of technology information, though it seems Reynolds does try and be faithful to physics, and I was at no point bored. Has some very strong characters, his books tend to be character centric which sometimes make his more space opera books seem less like a space opera.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Michigan View Post
    Pushing Ice isn't really Space Opera. The whole book takes place on a single spaceship that has virtually no contact with the outside world. I didn't find it to be dry or full of technology information, though it seems Reynolds does try and be faithful to physics, and I was at no point bored. Has some very strong characters, his books tend to be character centric which sometimes make his more space opera books seem less like a space opera.
    Good to know! Would Pushing Ice be a good book to start with?

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderCrawler View Post
    Good to know! Would Pushing Ice be a good book to start with?
    I think it would be the best Reynolds book to start with. It's a standalone and not in his Revelation Space universe but that's ok. It's an easier read then Revelation Space which tends to turn off many people(not me).

  9. #24
    Registered User odo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigan View Post
    I think it would be the best Reynolds book to start with. It's a standalone and not in his Revelation Space universe but that's ok. It's an easier read then Revelation Space which tends to turn off many people(not me).
    I agree completely.

  10. #25
    FYI, Reynolds tends to inspire more mixed feelings on here than a few of the other oft recommended authors. I cant say more than that that, since although I definitely read it (book 1 is in my library, and dog eared), I seem to have forgotten Revelation Space entirely.

    I would go with Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep if you want something less overwhelming than Hamilton.

  11. #26
    Live Long & Suffer psikeyhackr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderCrawler View Post
    The books I'm looking for are large-scale epics. That's the way I view Space Opera. Think Star Wars.
    That is the problem right there.

    In the Olde Days, "Space Opera" meant bad science fiction.

    But in 1977 the producers of Star Wars admitted that it WAS NOT SCIENCE FICTION!

    http://blogs.starwars.com/danwallace/15/comments

    So it is as though Star Wars has been a major factor in changing people's attitude about that word. In 1977 10 year old kids did not care what was and was not science fiction and what was and was not "Space Opera". So now anything with space ships can be called space opera. The term doesn't really mean anything any more. It just no longer has an automatic negative connotation.

    What good are words without meaning?

    I remember the first time I saw the movie. (2001) The year was 1981, and this country was in the post-Star Wars, early VCR era. Because of the rampant success of George Lucas' space opera, science fiction was once again in vogue.
    http://www.reelviews.net/movies/t/2001.html

    That sentence kind of implies that Star Wars was science fiction but it could mean that it was so similar to science fiction that SF got dragged along. The Majority of People do not care that much.

    So for me if it is GOOD science fiction then it is not "Space Opera". I am not saying that space opera cannot be very enjoyable but it is different genre with superficial similarities to science fiction.

    psik

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ArtNJ View Post
    FYI, Reynolds tends to inspire more mixed feelings on here than a few of the other oft recommended authors. I cant say more than that that, since although I definitely read it (book 1 is in my library, and dog eared), I seem to have forgotten Revelation Space entirely.

    I would go with Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep if you want something less overwhelming than Hamilton.
    I like Vinge but he tends to be slow at times. There were huge sections in Deepness in the Sky where virtually nothing happened. Great character development though, and I definitely liked the books.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
    That is the problem right there.

    In the Olde Days, "Space Opera" meant bad science fiction.

    But in 1977 the producers of Star Wars admitted that it WAS NOT SCIENCE FICTION!

    http://blogs.starwars.com/danwallace/15/comments

    So it is as though Star Wars has been a major factor in changing people's attitude about that word. In 1977 10 year old kids did not care what was and was not science fiction and what was and was not "Space Opera". So now anything with space ships can be called space opera. The term doesn't really mean anything any more. It just no longer has an automatic negative connotation.

    What good are words without meaning?


    http://www.reelviews.net/movies/t/2001.html

    That sentence kind of implies that Star Wars was science fiction but it could mean that it was so similar to science fiction that SF got dragged along. The Majority of People do not care that much.

    So for me if it is GOOD science fiction then it is not "Space Opera". I am not saying that space opera cannot be very enjoyable but it is different genre with superficial similarities to science fiction.

    psik
    Come on, man. I saw you in all the other threads doing the same thing. I didn't mean for this thread to become a discussion on the meaning of the words. Call it whatever you want, I'm looking for large-scale epic Sci-Fi stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michigan View Post
    I like Vinge but he tends to be slow at times. There were huge sections in Deepness in the Sky where virtually nothing happened. Great character development though, and I definitely liked the books.
    Oh?! I'll have to check that out.

    So right now, I've discovered Pushing Ice and A Fire Upon the Deep. Those have some strong characters, yes? Also, how is Warrior's Apprentice?

  14. #29
    \m/ BEER \m/ Moderator Rob B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderCrawler View Post

    So right now, I've discovered Pushing Ice and A Fire Upon the Deep. Those have some strong characters, yes? Also, how is Warrior's Apprentice?
    Pushing Ice is indeed quite solid, I read it a year or two ago and really liked it. House of Suns by Reynolds is quite epic, too.

    Warrior's Apprentice by Lois McMaster Bujold, right? It is the third book in the overall series, but the first to feature the main character Miles Vorkosigan. Funny you should ask about that one since I just got back into The Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold today (about 7 years after initially reading Young Miles, the omnibus containing Warrior's Apprentice). Don't let the long lag between me reading the books be an indication of their quality because they are very solid in many ways - plot, setting, character, pace.

    So yes, give it a shot.

    I probably mentioned it in one of the threads I linked initially, but Helix by Eric Brown is solid epic SF/Space Opera, too.

  15. #30
    Registered User odo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderCrawler View Post
    Also, how is Warrior's Apprentice?
    I didn't like it all. In fact, I still don't get why the Vorkosigan Saga is so popular. The protagonist, Miles, is not especially intelligent or resourceful, but his "enemies" are always sooo dumb that he gets his way by the end. And the scope is not very epic, at least in the 4/5 books I've read (yes, I keep coming to it to try and understand why people loves it so much).

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