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Thread: Utopia

  1. #1

    Utopia

    Hi there,

    Are there any recent books (>1990) on this subject? I can't seem to find anything that provides insightful ideas.

    People are no longer dreaming about what it is possible and what not...

    Thank you.

    Regards,
    Ovidiu Anghelidi
    Last edited by nickang; January 11th, 2012 at 07:33 PM.

  2. #2
    I started writing a book on the subject. Here it is:

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Utopia

    January 11th, 2012

    by Ovidiu Anghelidi
    Ovidiu is an independent scientist. He ran the world's largest brain simulation on over 14,000 computers, see the following Discovery Channel article:
    http://news.discovery.com/tech/cat-b...uter-hype.html


    Is Utopia possible? This fundamental question needs an answer and it needs it now. The answer to this question will shape the future of our society, the present billions of lives living on this planet and the future of our species.

    The entire world is sitting on the threshold, before the dawn of the Artificial Intelligence (AI). Once AI will be discovered there would be no turning back. The entire human society can be quickly transformed and it can reach Utopia or it can go abruptly in the opposite direction, towards Dystopia.

    This is a humble attempt to present a comprehensive point of view on how a society can reach utopia and a guide on how to move safely towards that close-to-perfection future.

    Unfortunately most of the Utopian societies described in books or articles present an incomplete view of the society, they focus on a just a few aspects of it, like economic utopia, where people will not have to work and there would be an abundance of resources and objects to posses, or living forever utopia, where people will never get sick and will be able to live along with their loved ones.

    Artificial Intelligence is by far the single most important technology that we, the human species, will build in the near future. Why is that? Because it would allow control of vast amounts of computing devices and will also allow for automated research.

    .................................................. ..................

  3. #3
    Live Long & Suffer psikeyhackr's Avatar
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    Just because an intelligence is artificial that does not necessarily mean it will understand anything. Why should an AI be any less confused than normal intelligence?

    How many of our problems are simple the results of people giving each other bad information? How will an AI anymore now when it is being fed bullsh!t than anyone else?

    And since it would not have to eat why should it care how many humans starve? I don't see what AI has to do with Utopia. This is just another example of humans engaged in projection.

    psik

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
    Just because an intelligence is artificial that does not necessarily mean it will understand anything. Why should an AI be any less confused than normal intelligence?
    You need to wait to read the next few pages. I describe in there the difference between conscious and unconscious AI systems.

    How many of our problems are simple the results of people giving each other bad information? How will an AI anymore now when it is being fed bullsh!t than anyone else?
    A regular human-brain (a couple of pounds of brain) AI would be more or less like us. A 100 ton AI would be different. It would have more time to research each piece of information. Imagine having 100 sub-AI systems verifying each sentence in the amount of time someone needs to answer it.

    And since it would not have to eat why should it care how many humans starve? I don't see what AI has to do with Utopia. This is just another example of humans engaged in projection.
    That is precisely the point of this book. To show that a super-intelligence can safely reach us to Utopia.

  5. #5
    Couch Commander Danogzilla's Avatar
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    I would feel it my duty to raise an army and subvert the utopia. Nothing personal.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Danogzilla View Post
    I would feel it my duty to raise an army and subvert the utopia. Nothing personal.
    It wouldn't be that simple.

  7. #7
    Couch Commander Danogzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickang View Post
    It wouldn't be that simple.
    I've seen the terminator movies. I know how it's done.

  8. #8
    Utopia

    January 11th, 2012

    by Ovidiu Anghelidi
    Ovidiu is an independent scientist. He ran the world's largest brain simulation on over 14,000 computers, see the following Discovery Channel article:
    http://news.discovery.com/tech/cat-b...uter-hype.html

    Introduction
    Is Utopia possible? This fundamental question needs an answer and it needs it now. The answer to this question will shape the future of our society, the present billions of lives living on this planet and the future of our species.

    The entire world is sitting on the threshold, before the dawn of the Artificial Intelligence (AI). Once AI will be discovered there would be no turning back. The entire human society can be quickly transformed and it can reach Utopia or it can go abruptly in the opposite direction, towards Dystopia.

    This is a humble attempt to present a comprehensive point of view on how a society can reach utopia and a guide on how to move safely towards that close-to-perfection future.

    Unfortunately most of the Utopian societies described in books or articles present an incomplete view of the society, they focus on a just a few aspects of it, like economic utopia, where people will not have to work and there would be an abundance of resources and objects to posses, or living forever utopia, where people will never get sick and will be able to live along with their loved ones.

    Artificial Intelligence is by far the single most important technology that we, the human species, will build in the near future. Why is that? Because it would allow control of vast amounts of computing devices and will also allow for automated research. Scientific research performed by machines will ensure orders of magnitude faster developments in any or all fields (e.g. mathematics, physics, chemistry, neuroscience...).

    Artificial Intelligence implementations can be of two types: unconscious and conscious. Unconscious systems may have limited value, they will be able to recognize or execute only simple commands. Their numbers will be large and they will posses no danger. Conscious systems on the other hand will be able to think and act the way we do. There is the potential for them becoming out of control and for this reason precisely we will need to strictly control them.

    All AI systems will be mostly based on brain. I say mostly because brain models and theories are incomplete. Brain simulators that run faster, or shall we say think faster, than the average human brain have already been implemented. A regular human-brain has a couple of pounds of brain. An AI of similar capacity would be more or less like us. On the other hand an AI system of comparable 100 ton capacity and faster processing speeds (i.e. thinking) would be different. A lot different.

    Such difference in thought can be used for considerable problem-solving to our advantage. Imagine smaller size systems that will take care of each person's job. A system assigned to replace each person's job. That will free everyone from work. Forever. No more work. A person would work only if they would like to. This replacement must be done rapidly otherwise it would lead to unforeseeable problems. One reason that the society is going to have massive problems in the near future is because this problem has not been studied thoroughly. The drive towards technological innovation leaves many people behind while the social system is unable to help them. This leads to conflicts. People unaffected by this trend tend to think that is acceptable, because it doesn't happen to them but the tipping point will soon be reached when their jobs will be on the line too. It will no longer be the case that blue-collar jobs will be on the line, these AI implementations will affect white-collar workers too, from the worker in a small cubicle office all the way to the president. The moment an AI system would have human level capacity, everyone's job will be on the line. The solution would be to replace the entire workforce very quickly (i.e. days) with a strong social system in place. Once that is done the AI systems will pay taxes and the economy would continue. By increasing the number of AI systems the increase in productivity would be much greater. That would translate in an drastic increase of quality of life for the entire world population.

    Increases in productivity would lead to increases in consumption and rapid resource depletion. The problem would be to increase scientific research to find new solutions to problems. Alternative energies can be used instead of or along with conventional energies. Changes would be faster because humans would no longer be affected. If a company with 1 million automated workers would have to be dissolved so another one can take its place, there would be very little complaints.

    Most of the problems affecting our world are related to competition and thus solutions can be found that would not affect everyone. Competition generates waste and must be eliminated. Two companies competing with one another need to have the same workers doing the same things (i.e. two presidents, tow vice-presidents, two division managers). If one large company will remain in each field a lot of waste and effort duplication will be removed.

    Artificial Intelligence Control and Security
    An increase in AI systems would also guarantee an increase in safety. If the quality of life in the society would be drastically increased the need for theft, lies and violence would decrease significantly. A police force would need to be maintained because there are always individuals that may feel the need to
    misbehave even if they will have as much liberty, resources and free time as they would need.

    The critical question is who would control the massive AI system, the 100 ton artificial brain. It must be a large group of people (i.e. one million) from every creed, nation and place on this planet. All members of the group will supervise its functioning in the same time and all of them will be equal against one another. If a problem arises they will all vote on how to deal with the problem.

    Schopenhauer said: “My liberty starts where yours ends”. All people must be equal to one another.

    Beliefs and Conflicts
    Different beliefs generate conflicts among people. Conflicts tend to turn violent if unresolved. Freedom of expression must be guaranteed for everyone. Society can not function when people have different beliefs yet they live among one another. Separate communities must be formed along belief lines. Each community must make its own rules of living. If a community would not want among them a group of different people they should be able to do so. But if someone should want to leave a community for another one, they should also be able to do so.

    If there would be people that like to wear green, living among those that like to wear blue, in time conflicts may arise between them.

    The main problem in our society is that people of various beliefs live together, due to economical constraints. If economical constraints are removed there is no reason why that should not be the case.



    Question: How would a large AI differentiate the truth from falsehood when someone feeds it information?
    Answer: It would have more time to research each piece of information. Imagine the large AI system having 100 sub-AI systems verifying each sentence as it gets processed.

    Question: What if someone is going to try to take over control of the AI?
    Answer: It would not be that simple. When everyone's lives are at stake AI control will be strict.

  9. #9
    Society can not function when people have different beliefs yet they live among one another. Separate communities must be formed along belief lines. Each community must make its own rules of living. If a community would not want among them a group of different people they should be able to do so. But if someone should want to leave a community for another one, they should also be able to do so.
    Why can't society function when people have different beliefs while living amongst one another? A great deal of excellent political philosophy has been written about this topic, most (if not all) of which maintains that society can function perfectly well if people have different beliefs. John Rawls's famous article "The Idea of Public Reason", in particular, not only maintains the opposite of your main thesis, but explains how it is possible for people who have different comprehensive world-views to live together.

    You also say "[s]eparate communities must be formed along belief lines". Given what you say elsewhere, this is presumably to avoid intra-societal conflict. What is going to prevent inter-societal conflict on your view?

  10. #10
    Registered User Pennarin's Avatar
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    Studies I've seen referred to mention that a multitude of languages also makes a civilization stronger. A lot of SF postulates one language to humanity, unity instead of diversity in that regard. It would not bode well for such a people.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysippus View Post
    Why can't society function when people have different beliefs while living amongst one another?
    Let me make myself clear. I am not saying separation should be imposed on everyone. What I am saying is that people of different beliefs that found it hard to live among others should separate and create their own communities. And they should be allowed to that as part of an equal social framework.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennarin View Post
    Studies I've seen referred to mention that a multitude of languages also makes a civilization stronger. A lot of SF postulates one language to humanity, unity instead of diversity in that regard. It would not bode well for such a people.
    Your are right. The idea of freedom and liberty is to have each person choose for himself/herself how it should live his/her life.

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