HBO's Game of Thrones Season Two [SPOILERS for EVERYTHING ASOIAF!!]

**Loerwyn** · May 2nd, 2012, 06:06 AM

I think Luya stepped on it, there. Brienne's been in it for, what? 3-4 episodes now? Total screen time maybe 20 minutes if we're being generous. That's not enough time on any level to really build anything for her beyond She Is Tall And Blonde And A Lady But Not So Oh Wow She Is Good With A Sword and what have you, let alone She Loves That Beardy King Bloke With The Devo-Inspired Wife.

For me it would have been simpler and more appropriate if Brienne didn't cry over Renly as someone she loved, but instead lamented her inability to protect him? That would, in terms of the redux stories for the show, make more sense - at least for now. It gives her motivation to avenge Renly, and thus bring closure on her self-perceived failure to fulfil her duties.

Edit: Not to mention the fact that EVERYONE EVER loves Renly. Except Stannis.

**Daddy Darth** · May 2nd, 2012, 08:33 AM

Epsiode #5 was amazing - watched it twice! I can't believe it is half way over already. It looks like the ratings have been excellent as well. Truly this is the definition of must watch tv!!!

**chris777** · May 2nd, 2012, 09:22 AM

I believe I need to read book 2 again. I feel like they are doing a few things differently.

1) Where is all the talk about how amazing swordsmen Jamie Lanister is? So when he loses his hand soon, it will be all that much more devistating.
2) I agree with Luya about the lack of the secondary character development. But also that it's pretty obvious they don't really have time to do it all.
3) Didn't Tyrion think of using the wildfire to defend against Stannis? I seem to remember it was Cersei's idea to start making it, but Tyrion's idea on how to use it?

**algernoninc** · May 2nd, 2012, 01:04 PM

Cersei planned to use it in catapults. It is explained both in the book and in this episode how bad that idea is - one fumbled bottle and the whole stock goes boom inside the city walls.

I also need to re-read the books. I keep expecting to see Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr and their Merry Men of Sherwood Forest, but apparently it's in the third book.

**chris777** · May 2nd, 2012, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by algernoninc

Cersei planned to use it in catapults. It is explained both in the book and in this episode how bad that idea is - one fumbled bottle and the whole stock goes boom inside the city walls.

I also need to re-read the books. I keep expecting to see Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr and their Merry Men of Sherwood Forest, but apparently it's in the third book.

Haha. Same. But that is why Gregor's people are torturing everyone. Asking questions about that group.

Also where is Bran's friends Jojen and Meera Reed. The Green Seer? Aren't they supposed to be involved by now?

**Evil Agent** · May 2nd, 2012, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by chris777

Haha. Same. But that is why Gregor's people are torturing everyone. Asking questions about that group.

Also where is Bran's friends Jojen and Meera Reed. The Green Seer? Aren't they supposed to be involved by now?

The Reeds are cut from this season. Maybe all seasons.

**AuntiePam** · May 2nd, 2012, 10:25 PM

Could there be any significance to Arya telling Gendry to stand "side face" and then correcting herself and saying "sideways"?

**KatG** · May 2nd, 2012, 11:13 PM

I don't have the problems with Brienne that others are having. She seems to me to fit very well with the book Brienne. And her feelings for Renly were in fact laid down in the tournament scene and her conversation after it with Cat. There is also an aspect of discovery. In the book, Cat realizes that Brienne actually loves Renly and in the scene in the tent, because Brienne is crying over Renly, Cat realizes that she loved Renly romantically and says something to that effect. That's when she realizes she has to knock some sense into Brienne as if Brienne was one of her children. And that's why Brienne swears her loyalty to Cat after talking about her mother. Yes, it is condensed, but they cannot spend endless screentime on that character. She doesn't receive it in the books, except for a bit in Feast of Crows, and more and more new communities will be opened up as the series goes on -- the slave cities, Dorne, etc. You cannot spend more than a few scenes on characters like Brienne and Sandor unless you want to completely change the story and make the series about them. My main problem is that the prostitutes and such don't move the story forward so large scenes get shortened in scope and length (although that's partly a CGI issue too.) I'm a good bit more dissatisfied that numerous important battles have been axed than I am that Brienne does not have an entire episode devoted to her. That's simply not going to happen. But Brienne will have considerable screen time in aggregate over the next five-six seasons.

What they have done instead is subtly implied things that are overt or implied in the book -- Arya and Gendry's connection, Sandor's attraction to Sansa, John's muddle parentage, etc., and blatantly thrown others into dialogue -- the conversations with Littlefinger and Varys where info that pov characters eventually learn is instead delivered in a block to the audience. Sexposition is tough, people!

Originally Posted by Chris

1) Where is all the talk about how amazing swordsmen Jamie Lanister is? So when he loses his hand soon, it will be all that much more devistating.

They talked about what an amazing swordsman he was all last season, and when Rob talks to Jamie, it's lightly mentioned, but he's a prisoner now, so he's not doing a lot of sword-fighting. I frankly am just as glad they gave it a rest. They'll have a good fight sequence about it, I'm sure, but that's next season.

3) Didn't Tyrion think of using the wildfire to defend against Stannis? I seem to remember it was Cersei's idea to start making it, but Tyrion's idea on how to use it?

What would be the point of making it if you weren't using it for war? Cersei planned to use it, but poorly. Tyrion has the idea of how to set up the trap and use it effectively.

Originally Posted by Loerwyn

Not to mention the fact that EVERYONE EVER loves Renly. Except Stannis.

Stannis loved Renly. They spoke about that love several times in the series. But Renly committed betrayal to Stannis' mind -- not standing with him, taking his troops, being a usurper, etc. The series Stannis is more grasping and sly than the book Stannis, but they aren't making Stannis a monster. (Well, he's a monster for committing fraticide, but again, he sees it as an execution for treason.)

Originally Posted by Auntie Pam

Could there be any significance to Arya telling Gendry to stand "side face" and then correcting herself and saying "sideways"?

It's a fencing term. Arya slipped up using a term her dancing master taught her and then corrects herself.

I do hope they don't cut the Reeds. I don't see how you can lose them entirely -- it's not possible for Bran to get where he needs to go with just Hodor, wolf and Coldhands and survive. The Reeds and the fen folk clearly have a further role in the series. I hope they do not replace them with a prostitute character.

**Luya Sevrein** · May 3rd, 2012, 07:11 AM

I don't know how the Bran/Reeds story is going to come off. It always seemed like a random children's adventure story ruining this amazing book I was reading, or an infodump chapter. xD

Anyways - I hope Wildfire will burn green, because it the trailers it appears there’s just normal fire. I know this doesn’t seem inportant, just… everything about that scene is forever tinted green in my mind. :C

I think the real reason I get nitpicky is because I love the show, it's a much better adaption than I could have hoped for. I just want it to be perfect. Some things are me being fussy or worrying like mad, and other things... I just think... 'How could you not do that? QQ'

**Loerwyn** · May 3rd, 2012, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by KatG

I don't have the problems with Brienne that others are having. She seems to me to fit very well with the book Brienne.

But this isn't book Brienne, this is a new Brienne. As I've said before, if you've read the book(s) it likely makes more sense, but if you haven't then it doesn't.

**DailyRich** · May 3rd, 2012, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Evil Agent

The Reeds are cut from this season. Maybe all seasons.

Judging by what we've seen so far, it wouldn't surprise me if Osha takes on the role the Reeds played in the book.

**Riothamus** · May 3rd, 2012, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Luya Sevrein

I think they are seriously not developing minor characters that well. Brienne, for example, Sandor - so that when those characters come to huge points of their stories, no one quite gets why they've made the choices they've made. But this isn't their fault, it's just a time thing I guess. They've only got so much, which is why the prostitute scenes and non-book characters annoy people, I guess.

Also, Charles makes me LOVE Tywin. I know I shouldn't, but gosh that guys good.

I also prefer ShowCat to BookCat. I want her to by my mum. >C (Sorry, Mum.)

I'm just the opposite.The more I see or read of the character, the more I hate him. Just like the other Lannisters with the exception of Tyrion. Tyrion's the only one of them I would spare in the end if I were writing the story.

**KatG** · May 3rd, 2012, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Luya Sevrein

I think the real reason I get nitpicky is because I love the show, it's a much better adaption than I could have hoped for. I just want it to be perfect. Some things are me being fussy or worrying like mad, and other things... I just think... 'How could you not do that? QQ'

I have a lot of those moments too. But they really have done a good job and also fit it for what HBO likes to have. My outside worry now is that HBO took a huge bath on "Luck," because of the horse deaths shutting down production. Granted, they won't then be feeding more money into that series, but it might also mean that they make the Thrones budget for Season 3 tighter again.

Originally Posted by Loerwyn

But this isn't book Brienne, this is a new Brienne. As I've said before, if you've read the book(s) it likely makes more sense, but if you haven't then it doesn't.

They did lay the groundwork for it in the earlier Brienne scenes, but then again, that might be easier to pick up on when you've read the books. Anyway, she gets over him.

Originally Posted by Daily Rich

Judging by what we've seen so far, it wouldn't surprise me if Osha takes on the role the Reeds played in the book.

That would mess up Osha's also important storyline, so I hope they don't do that and don't see how that would work either. Osha has resources and contacts on the north side of the Wall and knows how to survive there. The Reed children don't. So Osha joining Bran up north would be a very radical departure.

**Leeny** · May 3rd, 2012, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Evil Agent

The Reeds are cut from this season. Maybe all seasons.

They do seem to be cut. In the books Jojen has the dream of Winterfell flooding, but in the episode Bran tells the Maester he had that dream. But I hope they do come in later...or at least their people. I'm reading Clash of Kings for the first time and the Reeds' people seem as though they will be significant later in the books.