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  1. #301
    Fulgurous Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Agent View Post
    1) The lack of weasel soup (one of the BEST moments of the entire book). Her whole casual escape from Harrenhal felt very anticlimactic.
    Okay, I'll bite. How exactly in the set-up of the show would they have used weasel soup in any logical manner, especially when it only got called weasel soup afterwards in the book, when the Northmen called it that to Bolton and in the show there are no Northmen prisoners who are freed and no Bolton? (Plus, is Arya boiling men alive -- with the help of Jaquen, whose idea it is, Gendry, Riger and Biter -- with hot liquid really a best moment? When did Arya only get interesting if she's killing people?)

    2) The Talisa/Robb scene was brutal. Downright painful. I don't even know if I'll be able to re-watch it. It was excruciatingly boring, and infuriatingly overlong. I got so annoyed that I had to leave the room for a bathroom break, and was stunned to find her still talking when I returned.
    Oh, her talking the story was the best part, if conventional. You just went for the sex. I did actually like the look the two of them gave each other in the middle of the sex part, the kind of can you believe we're doing this thing, but I was awfully distracted by the open tent flap.

    You might be presuming too much. Many people (myself included) are starting to think the chain has been cut out completely...
    Well that's possible. But I seem to remember in interviews, the boys saying that part of the money they got from HBO for the battle was so they could do the chain. I would argue that, instead of weasel soup, the chain is one of the best things in the series, along with the dragons' birth and Jon organizing the defense of the Wall. So I hope that they keep it, but it was clear from a recent interview they did with EW on the Blackwater episode that money is still a really big problem for the show. That's why they are cutting or minimizing characters right and left, including simplifying Arya's saga at Harrenhal and not getting into Hoat and the Northmen prisoners, or at least not yet.

    I think if they cut some big things, that we just have to shrug and say oh well, they didn't have the cash. But this is going to become a huge problem with Storm, even if it is two seasons -- it's a lot of huge action pieces -- the razing of Winterfell now, the battle with the wights, the battle for the Wall with mastadons and giants and Stannis' army showing up, Dany's trail of conquering in the east with the Unsullied and getting to Mereen, and the Red Wedding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Werthead
    Mance Rayder has not been cast, and I doubt very much we'll get to him before next season.
    They'll still kill Halfhand and get Jon accepted in for episode 10.

    As for Ramsay, I'm starting to think he will appear before the end of the season. He hasn't shown up in casting sides for S3 and Roose mentioning him several times in succession suggests to me he'll appear soon. Against all of the odds, he must have been successfully cast in secret without the fans cottoning on.
    But you all said that was impossible. And if it's possible for Ramsay, it would be possible for Mance as well, I would think. I think we'll probably get no more than a glimpse of either of them or none, but we'll see what they do.

    However, this makes zero sense considering Littlefinger's journeys. Even assuming Renly's 'camp in the Stormlands' was in the northern Stormlands, fairly close to King's Landing, it is impossible for Littlefinger to have travelled there from KL, up to Harrenhal, down to Highgarden and then (presumably) back to KL with the Tyrell army in so short a period of time.
    We don't know that he's in Highgarden yet. He went to Storm's End (which they didn't map out in the map credits or talk about the castle much or even mention the name Storm's End much, but they seem to stick to the maps more or less so lets assume it's in the same place,) and then he went from Storm's End to Harrenhal to talk over the deal with Tywin. Tywin was at Harrenhal for weeks, it's been indicated that several weeks have passed since Renly's death, and it has to have been weeks for Cat and Brienne to make it back up to Robb's army in the Riverlands. If you believe that Cat and Brienne made it to Robb's army, and Littlefinger left Storm's End slightly after they did, then it's buyable that Littlefinger made it to Harrenhal. Then he leaves for Highgarden or Kings Landing, but not both, I don't think. Did they say that he already was in Highgarden and I missed it? In any case, I agree with that they covered a block of time of several weeks in the last three episodes, at least two, and that works with Theon's timeline, King's Landing and sort of Dany's. This of course, though, does not jive with Jon's saga in the North. You can give them say a week of Jon ranging with Halfhand before encountering Ygritte, maybe a tiny bit more, then Jon's saga with Ygritte is two days, then maybe another day marching him to the Lord of Bones, then maybe several days of marching with Halfhand, so that's barely two weeks, which doesn't match up. But in order to string out Jon's storyline, they're hoping we don't notice. It's not perfect, but it is a common tactic in t.v. shows and at least in Southern Westeros the staging is reasonably consistent.

  2. #302
    Registered User Werthead's Avatar
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    But you all said that was impossible.
    It should be. There are people who work as extras and crew who let tidbits out. There are people who check casting websites, Google searches and actor bios every single day (seriously). It should not be possible for a major character to be cast and for that info to slip past us. It didn't happen in Season 1 and hasn't happened so far this year.

    The possibilities in descending order of likelihood are:

    1) He's not been cast and Ramsay will show up for 10 seconds in the final episode as a glorified extra who can be recast for S2 proper (like Rorge and Biter in the S1 finale).
    2) An existing character is actually Reek in surprise (i.e. Dagmer, which I think would break any sense of credulity in the situation).
    3) He's been cast and has filmed scenes in secret which have not been leaked out.

    And if it's possible for Ramsay, it would be possible for Mance as well,
    As I said, casting sides - basically job descriptions - for Mance have been sent out for Season 3. Nothing for Ramsay has been seen. That means Mance is almost definitely out for Season 2 and will not appear until Season 3. Ramsay could go either way (unlike what's going on on set, the show-followers don't see many of the casting sides, so one for Ramsay could have slipped past very easily).

    We don't know that he's in Highgarden yet.
    Assuming the battle goes like in the books, he has to be. I think Episode 9 will end with the Tyrell army attacking Stannis from the rear, Tywin arriving from the front and Stannis's force being defeated (sort of as in the novels) between them. Then in Episode 10 we get big hugs and the announcement that Margaery will be marrying Joffrey (I don't put it past them to have Sansa looking thrilled, then it being announced that she'll be marrying Tyrion instead, moving up that element from Book 3). Otherwise the whole Margaery storyline in S2 doesn't make sense, they could have just held her back for Season 3. So the Tyrells need to be on the move already. It's possible they had decided to move up their army anyway and met Littlefinger on the way, which would make a lot more sense.

    EDIT: Done some checking and here's the score on casting for Season 3. Some casting sides have been seen that could apply to Ramsay but are ambiguous

    Announced: None.
    Definitely, 100% confirmed as being auditioned: Daario Naharis, Edmure Tully, Mero (aka the Titan's Bastard, commander of the Second Sons).
    Rumoured: Mance Rayder, the Reed children, Oberyn Martell (ambiguous), Shireen Baratheon, Tormund Giantsbane (ambiguous), Ramsay Snow (ambiguous).

    So far no word on Mace, Olenna and Garlan Tyrell (I wouldn't be surprised to see Garlan cut, but the other two are more important), Randyll Tarly, Val, Varamyr Sixskins or Thoros of Myr. However, I know there was a question mark over the actor who played Beric Dondarrion from Season 1 continuing in the role. The lack of casting sides or other info hopefully means that the same actor has kept the role (he seemed fine and recastings can be jarring).
    Last edited by Werthead; May 23rd, 2012 at 01:20 PM.

  3. #303
    Humble Grifter Luya Sevrein's Avatar
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    Episode 10's summary begins;

    'Tyrion wakes up...'

    So, surely, episode 10 will see Littlefinger returning with the Tyrells and everything being flipturned upside down-

    Nearly broke off into Fresh Prince there, but I'm good.

  4. #304
    Fulgurous Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    Assuming the battle goes like in the books, he has to be.
    Not necessarily, no. They've got ravens. Littlefinger doesn't have to go to Highgarden. And we already know that some of the battle doesn't go like the book because it wasn't possible for them. They had to make some significant changes when they were shooting it, as I'm sure you've already read about:

    The Blackwater stuff was so much fun. I mean, it was miserable. Forty-two degrees and raining and mud up to your ankles.

    It was partly budgetary. But there are certain elements of the battle we always thought will look so much more intense at night.

    On the resources we have, youíre never gonna be able to compete with that level of spectacle. It really has to become more about pulling into the characters and making it more about their personal experience of this event rather than giving us the giant birdís eye view.

    As weíve mentioned before, we went pleading to HBO for more money. We made our case why we needed the battle and they obliged. That allowed us to do a battle. It did not allow us to do the battle from A Clash of Kings. It would be difficult for a $200 million feature to do justice to the battle from the book. We didnít have a chance; there just wasnít enough time on the schedule or money in the budget (even after our Blackwater bonus).
    So all that toing and froing, they'll cut that down as much as they can. That's why Arya's whole Harrenhal sequence was slimmed down. And I imagine we'll end up with only two slaver cities instead of three, but maybe not. The big question is did they go for the visual effect of the chain, which was the most significant part of the battle?

  5. #305
    Gloriam Imperator kged's Avatar
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    I was about to say they have to have the chain, it's a key moment, the hated Imp saving the city, etc etc - and then it occurred to me that we haven't seen any build-up. It's been a while, but I seem to remember the book having several mysterious references to Tyrion having smiths diverted from swords and armour to work on some great project, before the revelation of the strategic genius he's displayed. Wouldn't they have thrown in at least one of those establishing scenes by now? Oh dear, losing the chain would be a change too far for me.

  6. #306
    It never entered my mind algernoninc's Avatar
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    I think they will replace the chain with the sewers and that is why we needed the conversation atop the wall in this episode. Somehow the fire will spew from the exit canals instead of being carried down by the river flow.

  7. #307
    Registered User Werthead's Avatar
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    American band The National's version of The Rains of Castamere. It will appear on the GoT S2 soundtrack and should appear before the end of the season (as well as over a certain scene in S3, obviously).

    Wow.

  8. #308
    Fulgurous Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    My daughter is learning the Game of Thrones theme on guitar.

    What we do know is that Stannis' ships do sail into the bay, that wildfire and flaming arrows will be used, that the battle will occur at night, and presumably since they bothered to have Podrick, that Podrick will save Tyrion. Everything else is up in the air.

  9. #309
    Humble Grifter Luya Sevrein's Avatar
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    Does this mean Bronn's sigil is going to be pig ****, not a chain? :P

  10. #310
    Cranky old broad AuntiePam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KatG View Post
    What we do know is that Stannis' ships do sail into the bay, that wildfire and flaming arrows will be used, that the battle will occur at night, and presumably since they bothered to have Podrick, that Podrick will save Tyrion. Everything else is up in the air.
    And they didn't just use Podrick, Tyrion said his name. Same with Ser Mandon -- Cersei calls him by name in this episode. So when he attacks Tyrion, we can all go "Ahhhh, that's Cersei's work!"

  11. #311
    Humble Grifter Luya Sevrein's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if they've cast Rhaegar or Elia for the Undying? I don't really know what's going on casting wise or if we have a thread for it?

  12. #312
    Registered User Werthead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luya Sevrein View Post
    Does anyone know if they've cast Rhaegar or Elia for the Undying? I don't really know what's going on casting wise or if we have a thread for it?
    No. But if they're extras who don't speak (or even have their words dubbed by other actors) that information wouldn't have come out (I'm actually wondering if this could be how Ramsay got by us, if he does show up).

    I'm very curious as to how they're going to do this on the TV show. The foreshadowing for future events (like the RW) will probably still happen, but it may be they'll show a lot of Rhaegar and Lyannar or absolutely nothing of them at all. They're clearly reluctant to start pressing buttons on the Jon's parentage issue, presumably as it wouldn't take as long (from a visual image) for people to start working possibilities out as it did in the books. But this is the next logical place for them to start addressing the issue.

    I'm also pondering how the dragons burn the place down given that Drogon could barely spit out enough fire to toast a tiny piece of meat just a few weeks back. They were a bit bigger by this point in the books.

  13. #313
    Cranky old broad AuntiePam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werthead View Post
    I'm also pondering how the dragons burn the place down given that Drogon could barely spit out enough fire to toast a tiny piece of meat just a few weeks back. They were a bit bigger by this point in the books.
    I'm guessing specially formulated dragon food. Or magic. Or both.

    Or proximity to something really flammable.

  14. #314
    Fulgurous Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    I think on the visions, we're going to have the most stripped down set up they can get away with. And there are three dragons now and its been a few weeks before they were captured, so if they all spit and eat, it probably will work. Or maybe they'll get rid of the heart and have something else, but I hope it's the heart because that will be wonderfully gross.

  15. #315
    Registered User Werthead's Avatar
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    It's worth noting that the House of the Undying theme from the soundtrack is more than 5 minutes long, which is quite significant from a soundtrack perspective (most tracks are between 1 and 3 minutes). That suggests the scene will be quite long.

    This is a key scene (for me, maybe even moreso than the Blackwater) and one that could be brilliant or they could balls it up spectacularly. It's also unclear if it's going to be in Episode 9 or 10. We know that 9 is not going to be purely the Blackwater (the previews show that Arya's storyline will be continued as well) so it's possible it will be in 9 as well.

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