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  1. #1
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    Team Kit or Team Josey (SPOILERS! For all three books!)

    This started a while back on Twitter, and anyone who follows me will know I go on about Team Kit. Lemme explain for those who don't know.

    Caim's got the two love interests - Kit and Josey. Kit's the ethereal playful girl, Josey's the orphan(?)-turned-Empress. Just as Meyer's controversial Twilight series has two teams, it ended up with Jon's series also having two - Kit and Josey. I think the idea of Team Kit and Team Josey came about when discussing t-shirts, but it's been a while

    I'm, personally, on Team Kit - She's fun, hilarious, arguably the second most important character in the series, and her optimistic outlook both compliments and contrasts that of Caim.

    Why don't I like Josey? Well, she does that schoolgirl crush thing on Caim. She'd be the kind of girl following him around like a bad smell. He cares for her, sure, but I think she likes him a little too much considering that they didn't know each other for long. Her obsession (as it were) with him grates with me a little, at times bordering on a little creepy. Caim's got his own baggage and she has a world to rebuild, as it were, yet all she can do is go "Oh, Caim, where is my letter?"

    So yes, #TeamKit representing

  2. #2
    Shadow's Lure (June 2011)
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    Out of respect to both ladies, I will deign to choose a team. But I will say that it has tickled me to no end that you've invested so much thought into this subject, Loerwyn.

    If it makes any difference, Mrs. Sprunk is definitely on Team Kit, too.

  3. #3
    and I like to party. Seak's Avatar
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    This was a tough one for me. I really like Josey, especially from her showing in Shadow's Lure...but I'm definitely leaning toward Team Kit. She's just fun and gets on Caim's nerves half the time.

    #teamkit

  4. #4
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Sprunk View Post
    If it makes any difference, Mrs. Sprunk is definitely on Team Kit, too.
    Awesome

  5. #5
    It could be worse. ~tmso Moderator N. E. White's Avatar
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    Okay, I'm in Josey's camp.

    Team Josey All the Way!

    I'm only half way through Shadow's Lure (damn, Caim can fight), so I will remove myself for further discussions so you all don't spoil things for me. But I'll be back!

  6. #6
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by tmso View Post

    Team Josey All the Way!
    Team Josey aswell

  7. #7
    It could be worse. ~tmso Moderator N. E. White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethalador View Post
    Team Josey aswell
    Yes! Now I have someone with whom to talk smack about Kit (awkward sentence, I know). I can't stand her. Has anyone noticed that when she might be the most useful, she's gone or can't do anything?

    Josey, on the other hand, seems to be doing well in her circumstances and actually learning how to be a queen, though I think she's using Hubert as a crutch a little too much (love Hubert!).

    I couldn't care less who Caim ultimately shacks up with, either is fine, but I'm rooting for Josey to stitch the realm back together. She can do it!

  8. #8
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmso View Post
    Yes! Now I have someone with whom to talk smack about Kit (awkward sentence, I know). I can't stand her. Has anyone noticed that when she might be the most useful, she's gone or can't do anything?
    That's kinda the point of her

    If she was around all the time, life would just be a cakewalk for Caim. She's almost like a literal deus ex machina, so I think Sprunk had to limit her influence in order to keep Caim doing things for himself.

  9. #9
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    Cool

    @Tmso and @Loerwyn

    to be fair you do need to read the 3rd book towards the back(not saying anything more to not spoil anything )

    EXCEPT that Hubert get engaged to Anastasia

  10. #10
    Shadow's Lure (June 2011)
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    Regarding Kit/Caim/Josey, I have a question for all of you. Well, actually two questions.

    (A) Do you think Caim is a misogynist jerk?

    (B) Do you think Josey is a doormat?

  11. #11
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Sprunk View Post
    Wow! Your first post on these boards is in my author forum? I'm touched.
    That's a bot, sadly. I'll report it after this post. Creepy bugger's been following me around (or it's merely coincidental that I saw it on another site).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Sprunk View Post
    (A) Do you think Caim is a misogynist jerk?
    No. I don't think he's a jerk at all. No doubt Josey wasn't his first, and I don't think having multiple sexual partners over the course of your life (or getting your rocks off then going) is particularly "misogynistic" or even "jerky".

    If you're referring to how he's treated Kit, I think it's more to do with Kit (no, not in the "she chose to wear that skirt!" way). She seems the kind to throw a strop over the smallest things if her mood is that way, but at other times be able to dish it out equally well. It's like she flits from acting like she's 6 to 16 to 26 in terms of her behaviour, so any issues between Kit and Caim are, well, because one of them's in a bad mood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Sprunk View Post
    (B) Do you think Josey is a doormat?
    No. I think she's very much a young girl with romanticised notions of love, life and even sex. Considering her arguably pampered life, she adjusted very quickly (and very well) to her new and stressful role, but she never fully shook off those slightly rose-tinted glasses, I think.

    But her scenes in the last half or so of Shadow's Master prove beyond any doubt that she is not a doormat nor a stupid girl. She's a strong, capable and independent young woman and she knows it.

    Whilst I must confess I'm not on Team Josey, I do think that she improved massively towards the end of Master, so much so that she could easily be a major character in a spin-off series about Caim's daughter (well, come on... how badass would that be?) where she guides the child through life, but also uses them as a weapon of sorts. I'm thinking a bit like Hobbs' Farseer trilogy - that sort of dynamic with Fitz and his true family - but that's obviously not for me to decide.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Sprunk View Post
    (A) Do you think Caim is a misogynist jerk?
    not a chance given his vocation, altho i think his FINE(Freaked out, Insecure, Neurotic and Emotional) about Josey and the way in which she touched him, deep down his probably a masochist at heart rather then misogynistic, in trying to not let others be hurt/harmed for actions or injuries that he might cause or to let them be the victim of any reprisals.

    If it's about Kit, i agree with Loerwyn on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loerwyn View Post
    If you're referring to how he's treated Kit, I think it's more to do with Kit (no, not in the "she chose to wear that skirt!" way). She seems the kind to throw a strop over the smallest things if her mood is that way, but at other times be able to dish it out equally well. It's like she flits from acting like she's 6 to 16 to 26 in terms of her behaviour, so any issues between Kit and Caim are, well, because one of them's in a bad mood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Sprunk View Post
    (B) Do you think Josey is a doormat?
    No and Loerwyn does say it very well i must admit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loerwyn View Post
    No. I think she's very much a young girl with romanticised notions of love, life and even sex. Considering her arguably pampered life, she adjusted very quickly (and very well) to her new and stressful role, but she never fully shook off those slightly rose-tinted glasses, I think.

    But her scenes in the last half or so of Shadow's Master prove beyond any doubt that she is not a doormat nor a stupid girl. She's a strong, capable and independent young woman and she knows it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loerwyn View Post
    Whilst I must confess I'm not on Team Josey, I do think that she improved massively towards the end of Master, so much so that she could easily be a major character in a spin-off series about Caim's daughter (well, come on... how badass would that be?) where she guides the child through life, but also uses them as a weapon of sorts. I'm thinking a bit like Hobbs' Farseer trilogy - that sort of dynamic with Fitz and his true family - but that's obviously not for me to decide.
    not having read the Farseer series that is a cool idea i must admit, not the usings as a weapon because i really don't see it in josey, and jon i think that's a gauntlet being thrown down at you

  13. #13
    Shadow's Lure (June 2011)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethalador View Post
    and jon i think that's a gauntlet being thrown down at you
    Indeed it has. Someday I would like to return to Caim's story, either in a what-comes-next series or a prequel. Alas, I'm a wee bit busy starting a new series right now. But it's definitely a future possibility.

  14. #14
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    You know, I have to admit that unless it was about a younger Caim, I just don't think he could carry another story. It's not a slight against yourself, Jon, but to me - as a reader - it seems like Caim's story is done.

    I'd like to see these, however:
    1. Kit Kit Kit Kit Kit Kit Kit
    2. Josey/Caim's child w/ Josey continuation
    3. Kit Kit Kit Kit
    4. Kit
    5. Maybe something about pre-Caim? A distant relative or something
    6. Kit.

  15. #15
    Shadow's Lure (June 2011)
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    Hmmm, I'm sensing a theme here...

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