Am I doing something wrong? (Query help, again)

[pennywise86]

So I wrote a book, spent years polishing it, got it to where I think it needs to be. Worked on my query and got it critiqued and made the necessary changes. A couple months ago I finally started sending it out to agents. I bought the 2012 GLA and basically went through the agents page by page, e-mailing those I thought would be a good fit. I'm halfway through the listings and so far nothing but rejections. Only one or two requests for samples followed by rejections.

I know this is typical of the process and to be expected. My main concern is going through that entire damn GLA book and getting only rejections. So I have to wonder if I need to change my query around, even after I thought I had it down.

So please provide any feedback, and ways I can improve it. Thank you.



Dear ______,

I am seeking literary representation for my 98,000-word Young-Adult Fantasy novel Child of Dreams.

Every single night Adrian Moor watches his mother die before his eyes. In tortured dreams he relives the moment of her death, helpless but to watch as she is beaten and burned alive during a genocide that occurred before he was born.

Adrian’s life is further uprooted when three Legionnaires, fabled gunslingers, arrive at his uncle’s inn and reveal to him that he is a descendant of the Ascillians, an ancient people despised due to their strange magic. This revelation shatters the bond between Adrian and his cousin Connor, who suddenly regards him as something vile and abnormal. The Legionnaires tell Adrian that the king has need of him, and that the he means to make use of Adrian no matter what. For in the dead lands known as the Ruins rests the Source of Light, slowly dying, and only an Ascillian’s touch may revive it.

As Adrian sets out on this perilous mission he must come to terms with not only what he is but also the immense weight of the duty expected of him. All the while uncertainty eats at him, and he wonders if he should truly help save the people who slaughtered his race.

Thank you for your consideration.


Sincerely,

[tmso]

Hey Penny,

Did you put this up here some time ago? I remember it! That must be good, right?

Now the bad news:
There are a few sentences that are clunky and there's a typo. Also, too many 'as' sentence constructions. And, keep in mind this is coming from a comma-happy gal, there are a few places that need a comma.

But, overall, I think it is fine.

However, I'm in the same boat as you. Worse, really. I haven't queried yet. All I can say is keep trying and good luck.

[pennywise86]

Yeah I did post this here a little while ago. I think my problem is the third paragraph, it sounds a little too cliched but I can't think of another way to express the MC's reservations about what he is being asked to do.

[tmso]

Okay, I thought you might want specifics, so here it goes:

Dear ______,

I am seeking literary representation for my 98,000-word Young-Adult Fantasy novel Child of Dreams. The intro is a bit on the boring side...but serviceable, I guess. Might want to think of personalizing this for each agent?

Every single night[comma] Adrian Moor watches his mother die before his eyes. In tortured dreams[comma] he relives the moment of her death, helpless but to watch as she is beaten and burned alive during a genocide that occurred before he was born. The bold bit makes no sense. How on earth could she die before he was born? I imagine them pulling his crying, infant body from her mangled body? Also, it is very clunky. Read it out loud. Maybe we need more context about his magical abilities in this sentence?

Adrian’s life is further [why further? consider cutting] uprooted when three Legionnaires, fabled gunslingers, arrive at his uncle’s inn and reveal to him that he is a descendant of the Ascillians, an ancient people despised due to [cut 'due to', use 'for'] their strange magic. This revelation shatters the bond between Adrian and his cousin Connor, who suddenly regards him as something vile and abnormal. The Legionnaires tell Adrian that the king has need of him, and that the [cut 'the'] he means to make use of Adrian no matter what [consider cutting 'no matter what']. For in the dead lands known as the Ruins[comma] rests the Source of Light. Slowly dying, only an Ascillian’s touch may revive it. Not sure about that last sentence. I just wanted to make a new sentence out of that because it is so important. It needs to have more of an impact.

As Adrian sets out on this perilous mission[comma] he must come to terms with not only what he is[comma] but also the immense weight of the duty expected of him. All the while uncertainty eats at him, and he wonders if he should truly help save the people who slaughtered his race.

No short story publications?

Thank you for your consideration.


Sincerely,

Actually, I think your third paragraph is the strongest. We get a sense of who Adrian is in this paragraph and the personal struggles he will go through.

[pennywise86]

Thanks for the feedback, tmso! I'll make some changes and re-post it in a bit.

[pennywise86]

I don't know how I keep messing up that "genocide occurred before he was born" line. It's been pointed out to me before, but some part of my brain convinces me I've made the change and then I look back and it's the same. Aghh! Is it better if I change it to "began before he was born"?

I don't have any shortstory credits. The short stories I tend to come up with don't seem to be what most magazines are looking for.


Dear agent,


I am seeking literary representation for my 98,000-word Young-Adult Fantasy novel Child of Dreams.

Every single night, Adrian Moor watches his mother die before his eyes. In tortured dreams, he relives the moment of her death, helpless but to watch as she is beaten and burned alive during a genocide that began before he was born.

Adrian’s life is uprooted when three Legionnaires, fabled gunslingers, arrive at his uncle’s inn and reveal to him that he is a descendant of the Ascillians, an ancient people despised for their strange magic. This revelation shatters the bond between Adrian and his cousin Connor, who suddenly regards him as something vile and abnormal. The Legionnaires tell Adrian that the king has need of him, and that he means to make use of Adrian no matter what. For in the dead lands known as the Ruins, lies the Source of Light, slowly dying. Only an Ascillian’s touch may revive it.

As Adrian sets out on this perilous mission, he must come to terms with not only what he is, but also the immense weight of the duty expected of him. All the while uncertainty eats at him, and he wonders if he should truly help save the people who slaughtered his race.

Thank you for your consideration.


Sincerely,

[KatG]

I remember this one too. I remember that it had a complicated plot.

While the letter seems fairly strong, I think two issues may be problematic. First off is that the intro to the character is very brutal:

"Every single night, Adrian Moor watches his mother die before his eyes. In tortured dreams, he relives the moment of her death, helpless but to watch as she is beaten and burned alive during a genocide that began before he was born."

There's not a lot of context to it and it may not particularly appeal to some agents and others may think it's a horror novel and not therefore something they are interested in. The other issue is that the world -- which is a secondary world, not Earth, is not very clearly delineated, again removing context. While you get across the gist of the main conflict for the main character, the "where" Adrian is in is confusing. You have mention of interesting things -- horrific visions, gunslingers, deep stakes ethical issues -- but they don't really know what's going on.

So one different way you could do it is to start with the world, a few key sentences to establish the setting, and then move into Adrian. Another is to start with Adrian, but establish him in the setting -- he lives and works at his uncle's inn, in a frontier town or whatever it is and then move into his visions and such. You could start with the Legionaires coming to the inn as one way to do it. I definitely think you need to explain a tiny bit more what the Source of Light is exactly. Is it a Sun? A magic spell? Will the kingdom go dark without it, or what?

I think you can also get out the info about the visions without quite so much repeated emphasis on the torture. (It's also not clear if his dreams are his mother's memories -- he relives the moment of her death; or if he sees her killed -- watches his mother die before his eyes -- I think we talked about this the first time.) And began before he was born is still confusing, I think. What you seem to be indicating is that the genocide took several years, during which Adrian was born. But since we really don't know anything about this, it still sounds as if Adrian was born after his mother was killed.

[tmso]

...it still sounds as if Adrian was born after his mother was killed.

Glad you chimed in, KatG. I was beginning to think I just couldn't shake that feeling because of the earlier versions.

Good ideas on adding a bit more setting.

However, I personally like the idea that he was pulled from her womb as she died (charred and all). Not sure if that's true in the story, but that's what came to my mind. I suppose it is all about what sort of tone you are interested in using.

[EricaW]

I'm struggling to complete a query also, and so I feel your pain. I've found a blog called Query Shark where an agent rips apart people's query letters in the interest of getting them to the point where she would want to read pages of their novel. Of course, she's only one agent (and I don't think she does fantasy in particular), but it is interesting to see what kinds of things grab peoples' attention. She says keep queries to 250 words (I think you're okay there) and to start out with the protagonist's name near the beginning of the first sentence (and to avoid to be verbs). So you're doing well in that department, at least.

Here are my completely inexpert thoughts.

(maybe you can include some interesting bits in your bio as long as it doesn't take the thing over a page. Agents seem to vary greatly as to whether they want this part first or at the end and whether they want any personal information, so be sure to tailor this info to the particular agent's guidelines). If you do toss something personal in, keep it light and humorous. From what I understand, agents get alarmed by anything that makes someone sound egotistical or needy.

I am guessing at some content here, of course, so take my ideas with a grain of salt. I'd guess that your plot catalyst is the three legionaries turning up and commandeering Adrian's services?

How about something like (I know this still needs smoothing): Every single night, in his tortured dreams, Adrian Moor must watch his mother die in the genocide that has torn the kingdom of _____ apart since before his birth. Only his bond with his cousin Conner lends him the strength to endure his helpless terror and shame.

or

Every night, in his tortured dreams, Adrian Moor watches his mother die at the hands of the genocidal ______ soldiers who have occupied his homeland since before his birth.

Adrian’s life is uprooted when three Legionnaires, fabled gunslingers, arrive at his uncle’s inn and reveal to him that he is a descendant of the Ascillians, an ancient people despised for their strange magic. This shatters the bond between Adrian and Connor, who suddenly regards his cousin as something vile and abnormal. The Legionnaires tell Adrian that the king of _____ means to make use of Adrian's magical talent no matter what, for in the dead lands known as the Ruins, the Source of Light is slowly dying. Only an Ascillian’s touch may revive it.

As Adrian sets out on this perilous mission, he must come to terms with what he is and with his conflicted loyalties. His assistance of the ________ is a betrayal of his mother's memory that makes it impossible for him to ever reconcile with his surviving relatives. But if he refuses to use his magic, everything he has ever cared about could be in danger.

Okay, I'm guessing a bit here at the end, since I haven't read it ... might be good to be a bit more specific about who and what is at stake if he refuses to use his magic.

If the bit about the cousin is part of the plot resolution or if Connor is a major character in the story, then I'd keep it in, but if it is just one of many side-plots and if Connor disappears from the story after Adrian starts out on his journey, then maybe not.

[pennywise86]

wow, thank you all for the great and very helpful feedback. Sorry it took a while to reply, been busy with work. But I have re-edited the query, taking in your suggestions, so please let me know what you think.

Kat, I understand what you're saying about giving some exposition to the world he lives in and his surroundings, but I just can't seem to think of a way to do that without it looking like an info dump or just slowing things down right from the start. We're constantly told that you need to hook the agent's attention within the first sentence, and I just don't know if I could do that by putting too much emphasis on the setting.

Anyway, here's the re-write, let me know what works and doesn't.



Every night, in tortured dreams, Adrian Moor must watch his mother die at the hands of the Mad Emperor’s soldiers in a genocide that raged for thirty years. He is raised with his cousins at his Uncle’s inn in Port Hope, oblivious to his ancestry or the truth about his parents. His cousin Connor is the only one he confides in about the dreams, fearful that he is going mad.

Adrian’s life is uprooted when three Legionnaires, fabled gunslingers, arrive at his uncle’s inn and reveal to him that he is a descendant of the Ascillians, an ancient people despised for their strange magic. Their revelation shatters the bond between Adrian and Connor, who suddenly regards him as something vile and abnormal. The Legionnaires tell Adrian that the king of Grandal means to make use of him and his potential magical talent, for in the dead lands known as the Ruins, the Source of Light is slowly dying. If the Source dies, the Ruins will spread like a cancer on the land and sink the world of men into a lasting darkness. Only an Ascillian’s touch may revive the Source.

As Adrian sets out on this perilous mission, he must come to terms with what he is and the immense weight of the duty expected of him. Meanwhile his conflicted loyalties make him question if he can truly help save the very people that killed his mother and slaughtered his race.

[EricaW]

I think the story sounds interesting ... like something that might be fun to read and with an interesting protagonist and backstory. I am no expert on query writing, but it seems like this version does a better job of establishing the nature of both the inner and external conflicts Adrian is going to be experiencing and the nature of the world he lives in. It still needs some smoothing--some of the sentences are a bit awkward, but you may be on the right track here.

The only thing that's jumped out at that I didn't mention before is the use of the terms 'gunslingers.' From the rest of the query, your story sounds like a sort of high fantasy (kings, ancient magic, spreading ruins, the protagonist being the last of an ancient race and what not) but gunslingers make it sound a bit like a western.

Having said that, I know that fantasy worlds can plausibly have all kinds of technologies, including gunpowder, and there are all kinds of ways to blend tropes in fantasy (for all I know, there's some kind of wild west punk type fantasy subgenre now), but the term 'gunslinger' makes me think of saloons, steam engines, cowboy hats, the OK corral and Wyatt Earp. Is this the type of world the story is taking place in (If so, you'll want to mention that it's a western style fantasy along with the young adult designation and length descriptions, I think)?

If not, and it really is a more traditional high fantasy setting where there happens to be gunpowder, then maybe don't mention the term 'gunslingers' in the query, even if you use it in the book ... perhaps mention that they are famed warriors or consider using some other way of describing them that conjures up images of the world and social backdrop of your story (musketeers, soldiers, outlaws)?

You'll have time to establish your premise and introduce your terminology in a way that makes them seem plausible in the novel itself, but I'm thinking having something that doesn't look like it meshes with the other tropes you're alluding to in your query could be an issue for some readers.

[goldhawk]

What are you doing wrong? You are expecting a publisher to buy your first novel. Average number of novels written before first sale: 10. Average length of time a novel spends with a publisher before they decide to buy: 2 years. Average length of time a novel spends with a publisher before they turn it down: forever.

The publishing industry just isn't a fast one.

[kmtolan]

What are you doing wrong? You are expecting a publisher to buy your first novel. Average number of novels written before first sale: 10. Average length of time a novel spends with a publisher before they decide to buy: 2 years. Average length of time a novel spends with a publisher before they turn it down: forever.

The publishing industry just isn't a fast one.

Yes, actually it is once you expand your view beyond the traditional publishers.

Your average wait time with a reputable indie (e-pub) publisher can be anything from a couple weeks to four months, with around two months being the average, I bet (disclaimer, I haven't sent in anything "cold" in a while, but my own acceptance was two weeks some eight years ago).

Less (a few days) if you publish it yourself.

Kerry

[goldhawk]

Yes, e-publishing has changed all the rules and nobody is sure where it's going.

[KatG]

Kat, I understand what you're saying about giving some exposition to the world he lives in and his surroundings, but I just can't seem to think of a way to do that without it looking like an info dump or just slowing things down right from the start. We're constantly told that you need to hook the agent's attention within the first sentence, and I just don't know if I could do that by putting too much emphasis on the setting.

Yes, I am apparently going to have to deal with people who are passing on inappropriate marketing speak to authors because they don't understand what agents actually do for years to come. That unfortunately includes a number of literary agents who are really bad at communicating what it is they need from authors.

Agents need information, not style. They don't need you to tell them how a book should be pitched. That's their job -- to pitch things. What they need to know is what it is they would be pitching. They can't do that, or speculate as to whether they'd be interested enough to do it for you to ask for chapters without information from you because they cannot read your mind. If you won't tell them about the setting, then they don't know what the book is about and they won't be interested. (And if you won't tell them about the main character, etc...)

In a fantasy novel, setting is very important and the main way the query letter reader can understand your story. Providing the key information doesn't necessarily require a lengthy ramble. It can be done in phrases and sentences. But authors are not practiced in how to do this, so they freak out, obsess about query letter length, keep trying to write cover copy and produce really uninformative cover copy that sounds generic. The things that might be interesting about their particular book go missing because someone told them that the important thing is that the query is 250 words, not what those words actually say.

No literary agent or anyone in their office will ever, ever count how many words you use in a query letter. Is it one page and not too cramped? Then peachy. When they say try to keep it to this length, the hope is that you will deliver the info they need as quickly as possible. And information about the world is information they need. So, since I can't read your mind either, let's play twenty questions again.

1) What was the name of the Mad Emperor? What was he emperor of? How old was Adrian when his mother was killed? Was he still a fetus and got cut out of her? Or was he a baby, toddler, etc.?

2) Was Grandal once part of the empire, now an independent kingdom when the empire broke apart? Or was Grandal separate from the empire, and Adrian was taken there to live with his uncle?

3) What are Legionaires? A religious order? The king's magicians? The local sheriff? What sort of gunslinging do they do? Is it laser guns or gunpowder or magical guns?

4) Were the Ruins and the Source caused by the emperor's genocide or are they something else? How do they know that the Source does this? How do they know that it's dying?

5) What are Ascillians? What is their strange magic? How have they been involved in the world and why are they hated for this magic? Why can only their touch revive the Source -- did they make the Source and/or Ruins? Was the emperor trying to kill Ascillians in the genocide, was that its cause, or was it just random slaughter?

6) How do the Legionaires know Adrian is an Ascillian? Did Adrian's uncle know (a Luke Skywalker situation)? Is his uncle really his uncle? (I.e. is Adrian a half-breed of Ascillian and human or pure Ascillian and his uncle isn't really his blood uncle?)

7) What happens if Adrian refuses to do this thing? Do the Legionaires treat him with respect or like a slave and prisoner?

8) How difficult is it for them to get to the Source? Do they have a time limit? Are there forces that will try to stop them? Are there likely any other Ascillians around?

9) Adrian has been raised among humans who sheltered him. He's never known his people or that he was one of them. So why exactly is his loyalty conflicted about saving humans? Obviously, it is ironic to do so because some humans slaughtered his people. But if he doesn't do it, the world and himself will get wiped out. Connor will die. So is he seriously thinking about abandoning the world and sacrificing himself to get revenge for a people he's never known, and for his mother? Or is he just resentful that he has to save humans when his race was wiped out?

10) Were the Legionaires the soldiers who killed his mother? Is he holding Gandal responsible for what the Mad Emperor, another ruler, did?

11) What happens to Adrian when he touches the Source? Does he die? Will they kill him to keep him from coming into his magic? Will he be able to use his magic before they get to the Source?

I'm asking these questions because I still don't know what the stakes are in this world you've created. I don't know how that world operates. And while not all the information above necessarily needs to go into the query letter description, I don't know what is and isn't critical because I don't know much about this world. I know there's some race that may have magic that got killed. I know Adrian has to go touch a Source to save things, whatever that is. I know the world has some form of guns, had a mad emperor somewhere who had people killed for some reason. I know that Connor is a bigot, but hey, maybe the Ascillians were bloodthirsty monsters and his fear is justified. I have no idea because you will not tell me.

Right now, a possible opening is:

Adrian Moor fears he is going mad. For thirty years, the Mad Emperor X of Y wreaked genocide upon W, slaughtering #, including Adrian's mother when he was just a baby. Every night, in tortured dreams, Adrian receives a vision of his mother's death at the hands of the Emperor's soldiers. Yadda, yadda.

Or not. I really don't know. And that's a problem. It took me forever to find out the plot and world set-up of Taramoc's novel, basic stuff and I still don't know a lot of it. It took me forever to find out the plot and set-up of Tsmo's historical fantasy with the bat woman. It usually takes me, in trying to help with query letters, an average of three rounds of questions to get enough information to have any sense of what the author has actually created.

And for agents, that is what is too long, not the query letter. So try answering the questions, start with that, and then you can get stylistic.




Goldhawk, Kerry, you may not feel that pennywise is making the right choice in seeking to query an agent and ask for help with the query letter, but that is the subject of this particular thread. If you cannot contribute to that subject, please stop trying to derail the thread and go off topic. There are plenty of other threads in the forum where you can discuss indie publishing, or you can start a new one.