Well, if you're okay with reading quillscratch...Originally Posted by JunkMonkey
I'm okay with shorter books, but generally, I don't mind books that provide story and character detail that they once would've left out because of publisher's page-count concerns.
I'm not saying I want bibles, but I wrote a book that came out to just under 150,000 words, and I thought it was a great length. You think that's too much, huh?
If it's good, then the longer the better I say. A good short story is a joy but I want something to keep me entertained for hours and hours.
Representations of Technology in Science Fiction for Young People - Noga Applebaum
http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.p...ce-fiction-forIn this new book, Noga Applebaum surveys science fiction novels published for children and young adults from 1980 to the present, exposing the anti-technological bias existing within a genre often associated with the celebration of technology. Applebaum argues that perceptions of technology as a corrupting force, particularly in relation to its use by young people, are a manifestation of the enduring allure of the myth of childhood innocence and result in young-adult fiction that endorses a technophobic agenda.
psik
Sorry to go back in time a little bit, but...
Rosie, have you tried http://critters.org ? I haven't gotten started yet, but once I get my latest novel polished up, I was thinking of getting involved on there. They may be able to help you pinpoint at what point the big publishers might be losing interest in your story.
And if it turns out that you don't want to change the story based on their feedback, you could always hire a freelance editor to check things over one last time and then self-publish. It's not the "kiss of doom" people made it out to be a couple years back. You may not make a lot of money from it on the up-front, but it might be enough to get the ball rolling and have publishers take notice later on.
And you may find that the scifi reading community is more receptive to new ideas than the big publishing houses. Because, as you mentioned, I think they are being very conservative right now, not taking many chances on new ideas.
If you produce good work, it doesn't matter that it's self-published. However, breaking out beyond your friends and acquaintances is difficult, no matter how good your book is. The fact that it's niche, or not commercial enough for a major imprint, is only going to make it harder.
A couple of small presses expressed early interest in my novella, and I knew it would never be bought by a magazine (it has a glossary, for one thing), but I chose to self-publish it for reasons of speed and control. I don't know that it would have sold more copies, or been bought by more people, if it had been published by a name people recognised. I do know that since I've done it myself I know exactly how hard it is to get people to persuade people to buy a copy...
Thank you for the steer, Psi. Another movie slides further down my 'I must get round to watching' list.
I've never seen Avatar and only just watched The Abyss for the first time recently. I thought it the most godawful overblown pile of bollocks I have seen for ages (and I have watched Octoman, Warrior of the Lost World, and a lot of Rutger Hauer films recently).
Did you watch the theatrical version or the Special Edition?
The second is about 30 minutes longer and the first has a dumb ending.
If that is what you think of The Abyss special edition then I gotta hear what you think of Avatar. I probably won't be able to stop laughing for a week.
psik
Last edited by psikeyhackr; September 24th, 2012 at 11:36 AM.
It was the 'special edition'. I bought a two disc both versions boxset in a car boot sale for a quid (I never learn) and swithered about which I should watch...
The Abyss (1989) - which I had never seen before and now consider the three hours I spent watching the extended Special Edition Director's Cut With Added Patronisingly Simplistic Message Content to be utterly wasted. Wish I'd watched the shorter funnier version, though I suspect I would have lost my patience with it at the same point. Our hero falls for 30 minutes straight down the abyss, buffeted and bouncing off a undersea cliff, and lands RIGHT NEXT to the nuclear bomb he has come to defuse - and then we have the whole 'don't cut the blue wire' gag? Oh Come on!
What, you don't think the submarine bumper battle made up for that?
That was so cool!
The woman drowning was a neat trick also. But it would have made more sense if she had hyperventilated and helped him swim part way back.
There are nearly always flaws in stories, especially movies. Different people draw the line in different places as to when the flaws become intolerable.
psik
Last edited by psikeyhackr; September 24th, 2012 at 01:21 PM.
Bless you for the tip... However, I already belong to critting group that's been around for several years and I've had bits of the novel gone over by professional writers. In fact my tutor (who is known to be a hard marker) and critting group almost bit my arm for the next episodes! And those I'm still in contact with, want me to write another novel!Sorry to go back in time a little bit, but...
Rosie, have you tried http://critters.org ? I haven't gotten started yet, but once I get my latest novel polished up, I was thinking of getting involved on there. They may be able to help you pinpoint at what point the big publishers might be losing interest in your story.
And if it turns out that you don't want to change the story based on their feedback, you could always hire a freelance editor to check things over one last time and then self-publish. It's not the "kiss of doom" people made it out to be a couple years back. You may not make a lot of money from it on the up-front, but it might be enough to get the ball rolling and have publishers take notice later on.
And you may find that the scifi reading community is more receptive to new ideas than the big publishing houses. Because, as you mentioned, I think they are being very conservative right now, not taking many chances on new ideas.
So it really is all down to the publishing industry and market conditions.
Having said that, it sounds like a very useful group and I may use it for the next novel. Thank you.
Because I've had such positive reactions by those that have seen the drafts (and some of them were plain talking about the faults, which were corrected), I'm unwilling to let the novel go cheaply. That means a good marketing engine, which means a good publisher.
If I don't get a good publisher, then I won't publish - end of story - in both senses. I know this sounds hard, maybe even self-defeating, but I know it's good writing, has a heap of new science fiction ideas liberally scattered throughout, has some interesting characters (I still can't fully understand why the lady readers fall for Dirk) and has a good plot (I can trace the basic plot back to a Hans Christian Anderson fairy tale).
I made a mistake with one of my published short stories in letting it go cheaply...
So given all this, can you blame me, for digging my heels in on my novel?
The trouble with that bit was the revival sequence that followed. It would have been a much better film if the character had died and not miraculously revived after all but her ex-husband had given up hope. Nice idea... didn't work. That would have sowed real seeds of doubts in the audiences' mind as to whether the rest of the characters weren't going to get a Hollywood happy ever after ending. Mind you, the 'estranged couple who built the (whatever) and hate each at the start of the film and rediscover their love during the course of the movie' trope is one that has had me throwing handsets at TVs before.
I watched this movie way back when I was much was possessed of a much less sophisticated crapometer. I loved it then. Nowadays I have a state of the art device, and stuff like The Abyss never makes it through.
You've tried it at the various open doors publishers have? Angry Robot have had a couple, and I think HarperVoyager, or someone like that, are having/about to have one. Most small presses are backed up for a couple of years, and even then you wouldn't expect them to sell more than 500 copies (and frequently considerably less). If you've not submitted to John Jarrold, I recommend trying. He's my agent, and he's always looking for new clients. He is very picky though.
Meanwhile, of course, it's time to get started on a new project.
As for letting a story go cheaply... Exposure is worth far more than the money you get paid. First, people start to recognise your name, then they start to remember it, then they start to look for it... And then they ask you if you'd like to send them something...
How much time would he have to waste getting a limp body through that hatch?
The revival was too melodramatic but I still liked the movie overall.
psik
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