Scifi/fantasy cliches you are tired of seeing?

**CausticDuality** · July 21st, 2012, 11:37 PM

I have the hardest time writing because I don't know what's considered a trite concept vs. something original.

What are some tropes/concepts/plot points/nuances that you seem to come across often in scifi or fantasy writing that really grind your gears and detract from an otherwise quality piece?

**Laer Carroll** · July 22nd, 2012, 01:46 AM

You are worrying about the wrong issue. No cliche or stereotype is too tired that a creative writer can't make it fresh again.

Now if you are worried that YOU are not creative enough - that's a better issue.

So what can we do to refresh a theme or character or plot sequence? First I think you need to look at the implications of an element you are concerned about.

Let's take an example that's been oft-used in recent years: say, vampires.

One cliche/trope/whatever you want to call it is that they are unable to stand the daylight. Suppose this is not true. Suppose vampires themselves put this out to fool vampire hunters or those wary of vampires into feeling safe in daylight. So vamp killer walks confidently into vamp's home. ZIP! Dinner! Self-delivered!

Or, suppose it IS true. I imagine after thousands of years some vamps would come up with ways to get around this. Get a trusted or high-paid non-vamp to mount guard. Use magic to counter-act the effect. Put on heavy sunblock. Carry an umbrella. And so on and on.

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**Igor** · July 22nd, 2012, 03:07 AM

I agree. The exact "cliche" template is less important if the surrounding story is compelling and interesting and full of twists. If the idea is delivered in a fun way, then the ingredients become irrelevant.

You can also have the most unique story ever, but it can be boring and uninteresting.

Igor

**CausticDuality** · July 22nd, 2012, 10:49 AM

I guess I just have a hard time coming up with any plot because I feel like everything under the sun's been done.

**goldhawk** · July 22nd, 2012, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by CausticDuality

I guess I just have a hard time coming up with any plot because I feel like everything under the sun's been done.

Quite true; all original plots have been done before. That's why improving your storytelling skills is more important than coming up with a "big idea".

Look at it this way: writer Dean Wesley Smith plans to produce one novel a month. Giving him time for vacations, that's about 10 novels a year. For a career in writing, starting at age 20 and retiring at 65, that's 450 novels. Do you think you have 450 original ideas in you? Most people don't. That's why writing well is more important than being original.

**CausticDuality** · July 22nd, 2012, 11:07 AM

But where do I even begin?

All I have is a bunch of source material that I like for a variety of reasons. I have plenty of ground for inspiration, but no way to combine those ideas together without appearing derivative or unoriginal.

I don't know what kind of story I want to tell. Is the goal to reveal something about human nature? To provide a twist? Unpredictability? Predictability but with lovable characters? Do I want to write for myself? To entertain others?

I have a hell of a time settling on anything. I want to write a plot because I think it'd be fun, but whenever I try to get started, I just feel deadlocked before I even begin.

**zachariah** · July 22nd, 2012, 11:19 AM

Have you thought about doing a short story - flash, even! - or a novella? There's no compelling reason to do a full-length novel on your first attempt. When somebody decides to run a marathon, they start with shorter distances and work up to the main event.

**CausticDuality** · July 22nd, 2012, 11:20 AM

My goal isn't necessarily to write a novel -- but rather create a plot for a video game (RPG-driven), so the medium itself is a little different.

**zachariah** · July 22nd, 2012, 11:32 AM

Judging by the current market, original story ideas in video games are actively discouraged

Are you going for Sci-fi or Fantasy?

**PeterWilliam** · July 22nd, 2012, 11:33 AM

I am certainly no authority on writing, but perhaps start with a single point - that of theme. A tale of revenge, redemption, love lost, love won, perseverence, forgiveness, betrayal. For what it's worth, this is where I might consider beginning, and then weave the tapestry about the pattern (i.e. theme) selected.

Pete

**CausticDuality** · July 22nd, 2012, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by zachariah

Judging by the current market, original story ideas in video games are actively discouraged

Definitely true! However, I'm not making this game with the goal of maximizing success. I'm just trying to make something I can be proud of... "making the game I've always wanted to play" kind of a thing.

Originally Posted by zachariah

Are you going for Sci-fi or Fantasy?

I want to combine certain elements of both -- the interplay between magic and technology. I think there are some really interesting characteristics to that intersection.

Originally Posted by PeterWilliam

I am certainly no authority on writing, but perhaps start with a single point - that of theme. A tale of revenge, redemption, love lost, love won, perseverence, forgiveness, betrayal. For what it's worth, this is where I might consider beginning, and then weave the tapestry about the pattern (i.e. theme) selected.

Pete

Yeah I've tried to start from this point as well. It's why I started a thread a long time ago (if you check my post history) about villain motives. I'm not sure what kind of theme I want because I don't know what kind of message I want to send.

For example, I really love the message that, say, the Matrix makes about the epistemological nature of life and utility. I like themes that force the reader/player to ask hard questions and generate debate. It's just hard for me to figure out the necessary groundwork because I feel like so many pieces need to be in place first before I can make a decision, and yet I need to make that decision to get the pieces into place. It's been an ongoing problem for me.

**zachariah** · July 22nd, 2012, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by CausticDuality

I feel like so many pieces need to be in place first before I can make a decision, and yet I need to make that decision to get the pieces into place.

This issue is a hardy perrenial for everyone with taste. How can you possibly start before everything is just right? The answer is simple. You must acknowledge to yourself that no work is ever perfect, the time is never right, and getting things to a reasonable standard is an iterative process, involving rounds and rounds of revisions and re-workings, which experience can reduce but never eliminate. Allow yourself to fail at perfection.

**CausticDuality** · July 22nd, 2012, 12:37 PM

That is indeed precisely my problem.

I just have a really hard time writing anything down because once I get into it, I get fed up and quit because I'm not proud of the (in my opinion, trite) output.

It's hard for me to go through the iterative process (even though I am aware that it's a necessary evil) because I can't tell if my iterations are heading in the right direction. All pathways seem equally uncertain and mundane. I've got this sort of end-stage "concept" in mind for the "types" of questions/themes/emotions to be ideally invoked, and yet hammering out the major details has proven difficult.