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  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven L Jordan View Post
    True, but I doubt that's possible. Even on an entire planet, the biosphere goes through changes that force change, survival pressures that cause evolution of species, extinction of others, and altering habitats and feeding grounds... IOW, the planetary biosphere is not self-correcting, it simply evolves to suit the new circumstances.

    A Biosphere, despite its appearances, would be as artificial an environment as the inside of a space ship; just more invisibly elaborate, as complex natural elements would take place of simpler technological elements. You don't want a perfectly natural system, because it will evolve, as the Biosphere projects proved.

    You want a stable and static environment... the antithesis of "natural." And you want an environment that can be adjusted to handle changes in demand... say, the loss, gain or significant change of crewmembers, the introduction (or evolution) of an invasive species, or a crop failure. Expecting a Biosphere to self-correct a system that extreme (and if you think about it, it's not that extreme) is expecting unnatural behavior in a supposedly natural system.
    I believe you are underestimating a true AI self-correcting system with quantum computers.

  2. #17
    I like SF. SF is cool. Steven L Jordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Day Myth View Post
    I believe you are underestimating a true AI self-correcting system with quantum computers.
    And you might be underestimating the power of nature and of chaos; or, as the esteemed Dr. Malcolm once said: "Life finds a way."

  3. #18
    Registered User mylinar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Day Myth View Post
    I believe you are underestimating a true AI self-correcting system with quantum computers.
    I thought we were discussing the practical concept of creating biospheres for the purpose of understanding how they work, pushing towards practical demonstrations and eventually setting something up to push us out into the solar system. There are no AI systems, self correcting or not, and there are no quantum computers.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by mylinar View Post
    I thought we were discussing the practical concept of creating biospheres for the purpose of understanding how they work, pushing towards practical demonstrations and eventually setting something up to push us out into the solar system. There are no AI systems, self correcting or not, and there are no quantum computers.
    We are and a self monitoring and correcting biosphere with AI can handle all changes to the environment, since it learns and adopts to change. It would be more adoptive than Val on Star Trek, which was a computer that controlled the environment of the world primitives were living on when then Enterprise crew found them.

  5. #20
    I like SF. SF is cool. Steven L Jordan's Avatar
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    But we don't have quantum computers yet. We want a system that is capable of being constructed and operating now, with current knowledge and technology... or, at least, to be able to set the groundwork for a system that will be workable in the near future. We can't depend on the next generation of computing that doesn't exist yet... we might as well wait for Val.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven L Jordan View Post
    But we don't have quantum computers yet. We want a system that is capable of being constructed and operating now, with current knowledge and technology... or, at least, to be able to set the groundwork for a system that will be workable in the near future. We can't depend on the next generation of computing that doesn't exist yet... we might as well wait for Val.
    This is what the public already knows.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW8rgKLPHMg

    I heard from a good source, thinking machines exists behind closed doors.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bxzb1ICsG0

    With brain capacity like this, AI will be used in more applications than just robots. They will be advanced problem solvers.

    I studied electronics and electrical engineering in college. I had a whole class in designing control systems for machines. What Hugo de Garis is talking about by the year 2020 is very possible. He is an AI electronic brain designer.

    You have to realize that a biosphere is one big machine that will be artificially built in need of a nervous system. And, this is the system that can control it and regulate it.
    Last edited by Modern Day Myth; September 4th, 2012 at 07:56 PM.

  7. #22
    I like SF. SF is cool. Steven L Jordan's Avatar
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    I'm not too impressed with the usual "Moore's Law" and "robots will be smarter than us by Tuesday" statements. For one thing, even quantum computers will be simple bit-flippers. Computational quality keeps getting compared to human intellectual capacity, but the human brain is not a bit-flipper; it's orders of magnitude more complex than that, and a computer, quantum or otherwise, can only hope to approximate the storage and recall attributes of the human brain.

    A full living environment such as a Biosphere is still so much more complex than even a quantum computer would be able to control, right down to the cellular level. Breaking a variable 512-bit code would be child's play in comparison. A very limited and substantially-artificial environment would probably be within a quantum computer's ability... but again, we don't have them yet. We only have theories and test-beds, nothing ready for prime-time. Theories aside, we don't know when we will have practical quantum computers, and until we have them, we won't know exactly how we can apply them.

    For now, we need a Biosphere model that can be controlled by existing automation and human assistance in a closed environment. Discussing quantum computers at this point is extremely premature and even counter-productive (since they do not as yet exist to apply to the problem).

  8. #23
    Registered User mylinar's Avatar
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    I am naturally skeptical of the claims about what exists behind closed doors. Back in the 80's I used to work behind some of those doors. You would be less than impressed. Rumors and speculation far exceed what is actually going on.

    I worked on the Autonomous Land Vehicle project for General Dynamics, and we were supposed to produce a self guiding tank that could without human intervention cross overland, assess threats and carry out missions (read blow stuff up) by 1989. I told my manager that there would have to be several dozen revolutionary breakthroughs for that to even have a chance. I was told 'Work all the overtime you need then, we will pay it'. My respons was 'you were not listening to me were you?'

    So I am unimpressed based on in-person experience.

    So lets do something actually possible, start from the very smallest closed living system ecosystem we have and start scaling up. Every time something breaks we learn new stuff and can start trying again. Compared to the original Biosphere project that Steven brought up this would be a very cheap one.

  9. #24
    I'm not. I've had to sign nondisclosure agreements to be involved with products before they were released to the public.

    Dr. Kaku is also one of my old college Physics professors from 30 years ago.

    I know engineers involved with AI who told me what we see on television and the movies on AI is outdated AI. We have thinking machines.

    Every year within the last few years, top universities and colleges are holding annual conferences on The Singularity and the two experts I presented here are guest speakers.
    Last edited by Modern Day Myth; September 13th, 2012 at 10:48 AM.

  10. #25
    I like SF. SF is cool. Steven L Jordan's Avatar
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    This is the IO9 article that followed up the Reboot the Biosphere Project article: How Self-Sustaining Space Habitats Could Save Humanity from Extinction

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