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  1. #1

    Dragon Riders.Yes,No and why so.

    hello it has be about year or a year in a half since i have been on here and i may not be posting in the right spot and if so i'm sorry.
    Recently i was going through my books (old and new) looking for something i can read that i have not for awhile.So as i'm pulling and pushing and using a torch to scare of all of the spiders (just like indy) i find a book.Now before i name it and you'll start laughing (if you can't guess with that then you need help) i was wondering about Dragon Riders,yes i know it has been beaten to death by the same man who's book i am now reading but i was wanting to know if one was to have a good idea about them,one that was new and fresh could one say ride this dead horse or better bring it back to life.My idea is simple and it follows the "Hero" arktype but with a few twists like the "Hero" is in fact a Heroin and that the story follows her in a Roman republic/Caesar's dictatership like fantasy world. 15 years after Caesars civil war (don't know it look it up) Caesar is trying to build up his dragon riders(most died in the war) but most dragons have fled north and their worshipers have followed stopping the bady from getting any.When one day a young(19 year old) finds a dragon and all sorts of chaos insuse.She meets a old man with a purple dragon(like windu) who trains her.the Old man wants revenge against Caesar for the death of his family.Caesar as it turns out is in fact the oldest son of the old man.The rebellion is in full swing with its on dragon riders(fewer then Caesars) fighting along with a confederation of other civilzations who wish to see the down fall of the main evil guy.So on so forth and that's about it.Is this horse rideable or is it dead??

  2. #2
    It never entered my mind algernoninc's Avatar
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    sounds like Temeraire has discovered a time machine and visited the Roman Empire

    Why not? He's visited just about everything in his own timeline.

  3. #3
    G.L. Lathian G.L. Lathian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakai View Post
    hello it has be about year or a year in a half since i have been on here and i may not be posting in the right spot and if so i'm sorry.
    Recently i was going through my books (old and new) looking for something i can read that i have not for awhile.So as i'm pulling and pushing and using a torch to scare of all of the spiders (just like indy) i find a book.Now before i name it and you'll start laughing (if you can't guess with that then you need help) i was wondering about Dragon Riders,yes i know it has been beaten to death by the same man who's book i am now reading but i was wanting to know if one was to have a good idea about them,one that was new and fresh could one say ride this dead horse or better bring it back to life.My idea is simple and it follows the "Hero" arktype but with a few twists like the "Hero" is in fact a Heroin and that the story follows her in a Roman republic/Caesar's dictatership like fantasy world. 15 years after Caesars civil war (don't know it look it up) Caesar is trying to build up his dragon riders(most died in the war) but most dragons have fled north and their worshipers have followed stopping the bady from getting any.When one day a young(19 year old) finds a dragon and all sorts of chaos insuse.She meets a old man with a purple dragon(like windu) who trains her.the Old man wants revenge against Caesar for the death of his family.Caesar as it turns out is in fact the oldest son of the old man.The rebellion is in full swing with its on dragon riders(fewer then Caesars) fighting along with a confederation of other civilzations who wish to see the down fall of the main evil guy.So on so forth and that's about it.Is this horse rideable or is it dead??
    Tropes are never dead. They just have to be done well.

  4. #4
    KMTolan kmtolan's Avatar
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    Write deeply interesting characters with rich dimensions and you can't go wrong. Just avoid thread fall.

    Kerry

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by algernoninc View Post
    sounds like Temeraire has discovered a time machine and visited the Roman Empire

    Why not? He's visited just about everything in his own timeline.
    um.....i have no idea what you mean.....

    thanks Kerry and that's what i'm going to do.

  6. #6
    Edited for submission Holbrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakai View Post
    um.....i have no idea what you mean.....
    .
    Naomi Novik's Temeraire series is about dragon riders in the Napoleonic Wars

    http://www.temeraire.org/

  7. #7
    Nakai, I'm not sure I understand your question. You've found a book that you already own and read, if I get your meaning. And you're asking...what? If it's worth reading again?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pendragon View Post
    Nakai, I'm not sure I understand your question. You've found a book that you already own and read, if I get your meaning. And you're asking...what? If it's worth reading again?
    no no no,I'm writing a book and i was wondering if my idea on dragon riders was good enuff or if the whole dragon riders thing was dumb.And I have a few pages done if you want me to post them.
    Last edited by Nakai; August 31st, 2012 at 10:43 AM. Reason: new thing

  9. #9
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    It's not necessarily "dumb," but since you'd be doing a historical fantasy about dragons used in war with Julius Caesar, it is likely that you will run into mention of Novak's Temaire series, which is a bestselling historical fantasy series set in an alternate history of the Napoleonic Wars. If you haven't read it already, you might want to check out the first one maybe. It's not a problem to then do a dragon story in the Roman Empire because of that series -- or other similar ones, but you should probably be familiar with it for down the road. Or are you planning to create a secondary world that also has Caesars in it and dragons? Another series that might be helpful to you is Stephen Deas' secondary world dragon riding series The Memory of Flames.

    What you are proposing is a female coming of age story. It could be done as YA, if you wanted, or adult fantasy. Twists aren't easy to do with dragons since we've had thousands of years of myth about them. That's not their appeal. Their appeal is that they are a fairly adaptable, adjustable myth that occurs in numerous cultures and are large powerful beasts, winged or no, fire breathing or no, which allows you to do various types of stories with them, from dragons hiding as humans to dragons as sentient magical creatures to dragons as fierce beasts or pets or tools of war. So it's less about writing a story about dragons and more about what you want to say in the story about your main character, about war, about identity, the environment, etc. You may not have that all figured out yet until you write the story. You may write a story about dragon riders and end up using a whole other beast or there will be something else important in the story besides the dragon squadrons. The dragons are a tool -- a fun tool that you can adapt however you like to tell the story you want to tell. And the dragons may, depending on what kind they are, give you sorts of characters that you can use in different ways than you do human characters to go where you want to go -- the thrill of flight, the difficulty of divided loyalties, the nature and worth of revenge.

    So I'd suggest you think about what you like about dragons, why you wanted to have a Caesar, what the deal is with this female character you've chosen, and see what comes up from there. You can always change things later.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by KatG View Post
    It's not necessarily "dumb," but since you'd be doing a historical fantasy about dragons used in war with Julius Caesar, it is likely that you will run into mention of Novak's Temaire series, which is a bestselling historical fantasy series set in an alternate history of the Napoleonic Wars. If you haven't read it already, you might want to check out the first one maybe. It's not a problem to then do a dragon story in the Roman Empire because of that series -- or other similar ones, but you should probably be familiar with it for down the road. Or are you planning to create a secondary world that also has Caesars in it and dragons? Another series that might be helpful to you is Stephen Deas' secondary world dragon riding series The Memory of Flames.

    What you are proposing is a female coming of age story. It could be done as YA, if you wanted, or adult fantasy. Twists aren't easy to do with dragons since we've had thousands of years of myth about them. That's not their appeal. Their appeal is that they are a fairly adaptable, adjustable myth that occurs in numerous cultures and are large powerful beasts, winged or no, fire breathing or no, which allows you to do various types of stories with them, from dragons hiding as humans to dragons as sentient magical creatures to dragons as fierce beasts or pets or tools of war. So it's less about writing a story about dragons and more about what you want to say in the story about your main character, about war, about identity, the environment, etc. You may not have that all figured out yet until you write the story. You may write a story about dragon riders and end up using a whole other beast or there will be something else important in the story besides the dragon squadrons. The dragons are a tool -- a fun tool that you can adapt however you like to tell the story you want to tell. And the dragons may, depending on what kind they are, give you sorts of characters that you can use in different ways than you do human characters to go where you want to go -- the thrill of flight, the difficulty of divided loyalties, the nature and worth of revenge.

    So I'd suggest you think about what you like about dragons, why you wanted to have a Caesar, what the deal is with this female character you've chosen, and see what comes up from there. You can always change things later.
    ok,first i would like to say thank you all for the help but i think i may have confused some things up.firstly my story is set in my own fantasy world,it just happens to be in a a republic not kingdom or empire.Second when i said Caesar I was meaning a person (the main bady) who rules over the republic like Caesar did(for a short time) i called him Caesar because that was the only man i could think up that was what my main bady is like(not the real Caesar...sorry) and i had no name for him at that time.(his name is Devan now). Third,history was the best way i could come up with that is like my story.Forth when i was writing that mass i had been up all night with like 15 glass's of super sweet tea which simple put,made me run around like a rabbit on ( not sure if i'm allowed to say it) but i think you get the idea.so i am sorry for the mix up....now here is the best way for me to describe how my story is(lets try this again)

    "Girl named Jak finds a hatchling dragon in a cave with it's dead mother,Gets bit by said dragon and sees a vision of a battle with her having to decide whom to help the white dragon(devan) or the purple dragon(her soon to be teacher) gets help from a friend and escapes to the free city's.Meets her teacher who takes her away to the woods to train.Six months or so later she meet a enemy dragon hunter who they (jak and her teacher) kidnape who helps save them from a evil spirit.Jak and teacher and hunter then travel to the home of the rebellion just in time to stop the main badys armys of doom."

    i do hope this helps with all of the confusen......

    and once i am done with the first chapter i will be posting it for people to see and say weather it is the worst thing they have ever read or if it my be improved.(should have the 10 to 14 pages done by the end of or middle of next week.) so i am sorry for all of the mix up again and i hope this helps out.

  11. #11
    G.L. Lathian G.L. Lathian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakai View Post
    ok,first i would like to say thank you all for the help but i think i may have confused some things up.firstly my story is set in my own fantasy world,it just happens to be in a a republic not kingdom or empire.Second when i said Caesar I was meaning a person (the main bady) who rules over the republic like Caesar did(for a short time) i called him Caesar because that was the only man i could think up that was what my main bady is like(not the real Caesar...sorry) and i had no name for him at that time.(his name is Devan now). Third,history was the best way i could come up with that is like my story.Forth when i was writing that mass i had been up all night with like 15 glass's of super sweet tea which simple put,made me run around like a rabbit on ( not sure if i'm allowed to say it) but i think you get the idea.so i am sorry for the mix up....now here is the best way for me to describe how my story is(lets try this again)

    "Girl named Jak finds a hatchling dragon in a cave with it's dead mother,Gets bit by said dragon and sees a vision of a battle with her having to decide whom to help the white dragon(devan) or the purple dragon(her soon to be teacher) gets help from a friend and escapes to the free city's.Meets her teacher who takes her away to the woods to train.Six months or so later she meet a enemy dragon hunter who they (jak and her teacher) kidnape who helps save them from a evil spirit.Jak and teacher and hunter then travel to the home of the rebellion just in time to stop the main badys armys of doom."

    i do hope this helps with all of the confusen......

    and once i am done with the first chapter i will be posting it for people to see and say weather it is the worst thing they have ever read or if it my be improved.(should have the 10 to 14 pages done by the end of or middle of next week.) so i am sorry for all of the mix up again and i hope this helps out.
    I sense English isn't your first language? Maybe Japanese judging by your name?

    I'm just curious what language you will be writing in?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cononomous View Post
    I sense English isn't your first language? Maybe Japanese judging by your name?

    I'm just curious what language you will be writing in?
    lol English is my first language it's just my typing is not good,but i can type right in proper English if i so wish it's just that i think it's a wast when i can get my message across without having to sit for a hour typing really slow what i want out.Of cause this is more then likely why all of this confusen happened(plus all of the sweet tea. and my ADD) I do hope this helped and i am sorry for the confusen.
    Last edited by Nakai; September 1st, 2012 at 01:04 PM. Reason: more words

  13. #13
    Palinodic Moderator KatG's Avatar
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    Again, most of the things I said still apply even if it's an imaginary world fantasy novel. It's just that instead of people referencing Novak's series, you're likely to be asked if it's like Christopher Paolini's YA Inheritance trilogy. Again, we cannot predict what reaction to your story there may be. Dragons are appealing, surprising people in how you use dragons is unlikely. So again, it's about what you want to do with the story and what you want to use the dragons for. I do think the Deas' series I mentioned might be useful to you, if you haven't read it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by KatG View Post
    Again, most of the things I said still apply even if it's an imaginary world fantasy novel. It's just that instead of people referencing Novak's series, you're likely to be asked if it's like Christopher Paolini's YA Inheritance trilogy. Again, we cannot predict what reaction to your story there may be. Dragons are appealing, surprising people in how you use dragons is unlikely. So again, it's about what you want to do with the story and what you want to use the dragons for. I do think the Deas' series I mentioned might be useful to you, if you haven't read it.
    like CPs?no i hope not.Tho in about about a week i hope to have my first chapter done and when i do i'll post it.i'll look it up and thanks again.
    Last edited by Nakai; September 1st, 2012 at 08:11 PM.

  15. #15
    G.L. Lathian G.L. Lathian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakai View Post
    lol English is my first language it's just my typing is not good,but i can type right in proper English if i so wish it's just that i think it's a wast when i can get my message across without having to sit for a hour typing really slow what i want out.Of cause this is more then likely why all of this confusen happened(plus all of the sweet tea. and my ADD) I do hope this helped and i am sorry for the confusen.
    If it's taking you hours to post write a simple forum message correctly, it's going to take you a lifetime to finish your book.

    I think you should put aside some time to get the basics down. I'm not trying to be rude, I understand how difficult it can be, but writing a book is not an easy thing and editing is even harder.

    Would you try a back-flip on a BMX before you could even ride it?

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

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