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  1. #1

    Gory and graphic novels?

    I came across this site looking for fantasy books and was hoping some of you could help me find a good book. I really like all kinds of fantasy books, I've read all of the Drizzt series, First Law trilogy and all of Joes other books, Kingkiller Chronicles, and the Night Angel trilogy, but my favorite kind of books are the gory and graphic ones. First Law was pretty perfect with what I'm looking for, KKC was also amazing but I have to wait for the last book to come out before I can resume that. The Night Angel trilogy seemed good at the start, but as I got further into it I felt like it lost momentum. I don't much care for the self loathing Kylar goes through and it started to have a childish feel to it, like it was written more for teens than adults.

    I like sword and sorcery books kind of like LOTR or any of the Drizzt series and Spider Queen series, but it seems hard to find books like that that are also gory or graphic. I really like books with "grey" characters like Ninefingers and I've been looking for a book that follows the "villians" point of view or both sides of the story. I also read a lot of zombie books so I'm open to those books as well, and some of the Diablo books so I'm really open to pretty much any kind of fantasy, I just like it to be graphic and descriptive and not cliche.

    I don't normally like epic fantasy, I usually like it to be more of a personal vendetta or low scale, but there have been a few good epic stories I've read. I don't normally like the whole all of humanity rests on one guys shoulders thing. Any suggestions?

    EDIT: I also have not read any of the Fire and Ice novels or any Tolkien books. Tolkien may be good for me but I've never read it so I can't be positive, I just know its not very graphic, whereas the Fire and Ice series has a lot of sex. I'm not against sex, but if there's a ton of it I feel like I'm reading a smut book and knowing what the author looks like just throws me off. Can't imagine him writing it and not getting off on it, just throws me off. I can deal with it if it's not terribly in detail and not like a chapter long describing it all. Idk why I can deal with violence and and not sex but that's the way it is for me haha. I'm used to gory books and I'm fine with that, and I'm fine with sex, I'd just rather my book focuses more on violence than sex. I can imagine an older guy knowing about violence but when he's writing about depraved sex scenes I just feel awkward, even if I'm alone. How much sex is there really in A Song of Fire and Ice and how mug violence is there in Tolkiens books? I honestly think GRRM is more up my alley but the sex just makes me leery.
    Last edited by Imrannan; September 13th, 2012 at 12:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    There's far less sex in ASoIaF than people say there is, and often it's brief or implied. Tolkien isn't that violent, I think.

    You could always try Mark Lawrence's Prince of Thorns (yes, fellow members, I did just suggest that), a book that's been quite well-received by the fantasy community (except me). I believe Richard Morgan's The Steel Remains (and its sequels) are quite violent, too.

  3. #3
    It could be worse. ~tmso Moderator N. E. White's Avatar
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    There's Jon Sprunk's Shadow series. Not sure how they compare to the goriness of of the books you mentioned, but there are a lot of fight scenes.

  4. #4
    @PeteMC666 PeteMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loerwyn View Post
    There's far less sex in ASoIaF than people say there is, and often it's brief or implied. Tolkien isn't that violent, I think.
    Yes, definitely give Game of Thrones a try and see how you get on. It's certainly violent, and as Lowewyn says there's far less sex in it than people think there is. Tolkien will bore you to tears based on what you said above.

    You could always try Mark Lawrence's Prince of Thorns
    Wow, you did say that didn't you?! Personally I loved this book, and I think you will too.

    I believe Richard Morgan's The Steel Remains (and its sequels) are quite violent, too.
    They are, but are also half porn. Probably not your sort of thing (certainly wasn't mine!).

    Have you ever read any of the original Conan stories? Abercrombie and co owe an enormous debt to Robert E Howard, which I'm sure they'll be the first to admit, and the old school sword and sorcery is often extremely violent. Pick up a couple and see how you go.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMC View Post
    Yes, definitely give Game of Thrones a try and see how you get on. It's certainly violent, and as Lowewyn says there's far less sex in it than people think there is. Tolkien will bore you to tears based on what you said above.



    Wow, you did say that didn't you?! Personally I loved this book, and I think you will too.



    They are, but are also half porn. Probably not your sort of thing (certainly wasn't mine!).

    Have you ever read any of the original Conan stories? Abercrombie and co owe an enormous debt to Robert E Howard, which I'm sure they'll be the first to admit, and the old school sword and sorcery is often extremely violent. Pick up a couple and see how you go.
    I have not read the Conan books but I will definitely look into them, and GRRMs books. Is the Prince of Thorns geared more towards teens or young adults though? I'm trying to avoid books like the Night Angel. It bothers me that I found it so unenjoyable that I haven't finished it yet and I'm trying to avoid books like it.

  6. #6
    Jeez. Morgan's books are NOT half porn. Sheesh.

    To the OP -- you might also try Doug Hulick's books. The second book seems to have been delayed, but I definitely enjoyed the first one, Among Thieves.

  7. #7
    The New ... MARK LAWRENCE Mark Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imrannan View Post
    Is the Prince of Thorns geared more towards teens or young adults though?
    Absolutely not. What gave you that idea?

  8. #8
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    It does look kinda YA, but it's the Jason Chan cover and the young-ish protagonist that would make people think it.

    It isn't, though. At all.

  9. #9
    @PeteMC666 PeteMC's Avatar
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    Good lord no, no it isn't!

  10. #10
    I would highly suggest Richard Morgan, which is about as graphic and ultraviolent as it gets. Its definitely NOT half porn, the occasion scenes just tend to stick in peoples minds I think because of how taboo they are--gang rape and/or gay sex.

    I thought of 'Prince of Thorns' as a Y/A novel--you know, since its about a teenager. I can imagine that it would be hard to sell it to a Y/A market due to the (very) adult themes. I can imagine a 14 year old me loving it though; people often underestimate how dark a story teenagers can digest.

    (PS. Is that actually Mark Lawrence's account? If so, kudos)
    Last edited by xcessive; September 14th, 2012 at 04:30 AM.

  11. #11
    The New ... MARK LAWRENCE Mark Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcessive View Post
    I thought of 'Prince of Thorns' as a Y/A novel--you know, since its about a teenager.

    YA definitions are many and various but I don't think anyone can seriously defend a definition that is based on the age of the protagonist. The YA refers to the readers. It might be that the characters in YA literature are often young, but (& here the mathematician in me resists the desire to draw a Venn diagram) having young characters does not make something YA.

    The reason Prince of Thorns is not YA isn't because of the violence or 'darkness' either - though some might list them as factors. It's not YA simply because it wasn't written for young adults. It was written with a level of sophistication and reference that targets not just adults, but intelligent adults with broad experience and wider reading tastes.

    That's not to say young adults can't enjoy it (or even people who have never read outside the genre), but they are less likely to as they are less likely to notice the depth and more likely just to see the upper levels/face value.

    That's been my experience. YMMV

  12. #12
    The New ... MARK LAWRENCE Mark Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcessive View Post
    I would highly suggest Richard Morgan, which is about as graphic and ultraviolent as it gets. Its definitely NOT half porn, the occasion scenes just tend to stick in peoples minds I think because of how taboo they are--gang rape and/or gay sex.

    I thought of 'Prince of Thorns' as a Y/A novel--you know, since its about a teenager. I can imagine that it would be hard to sell it to a Y/A market due to the (very) adult themes. I can imagine a 14 year old me loving it though; people often underestimate how dark a story teenagers can digest.

    (PS. Is that actually Mark Lawrence's account? If so, kudos)
    PS - like the King Crimson cover avatar! Kudos!

  13. #13
    Matthew Stover's Acts of Caine.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by xcessive View Post
    I would highly suggest Richard Morgan, which is about as graphic and ultraviolent as it gets. Its definitely NOT half porn, the occasion scenes just tend to stick in peoples minds I think because of how taboo they are--gang rape and/or gay sex.

    I thought of 'Prince of Thorns' as a Y/A novel--you know, since its about a teenager. I can imagine that it would be hard to sell it to a Y/A market due to the (very) adult themes. I can imagine a 14 year old me loving it though; people often underestimate how dark a story teenagers can digest.

    (PS. Is that actually Mark Lawrence's account? If so, kudos)
    I am going to pass on Richard Morgan just to avoid reading about gang rape or gay sex. I'm fine with inferring that two dudes had sex, but I don't want to read a few paragraphs on it or on rape (like in the Night Angel series. Rape everywhere in book two). But I picked up the first ASoFaI book and I ordered Prince of Thorns to the bookstore near me so in a day or two I will be able to pick that up along with the Lies of Locke Lamora. And so far Game of Thrones is pretty good, but I'm only 50 pages in haha.

  15. #15
    Registered User Loerwyn's Avatar
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    If you don't want to read about gang rape, then... maybe ASoIaF isn't quite right. It happens a couple of times over the series, though we never actually witness one.

    And there's some sexual contact between two women on-camera (as it were)...
    Last edited by Loerwyn; September 14th, 2012 at 11:12 AM.

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