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  1. #1

    Evolution -- Science Fact or Science Fiction?

    I, myself, do not believe in either Evolution or Creation. Both theories have too many inconsistencies. But, to limit this discussion, let's look at Evolution of Humans and ask why didn't the dinosaurs evolve?

    Humans are believed by some to have evolved over 85 million years. Dinosaurs roamed the Earth for over 230 million to 65 million years ago. That means they lived on Earth for 165 million years. That's twice as long as humans. So, why didn't they evolved into super intelligent lizards?

    I am actually developing a science fiction series where dinosaurs did evolved and will be alien ETs who send vanity cyborgs of themselves to Earth to look for their ancestors and bump heads cyborgs in human form who are in charge of global security on Earth and another planet with humans.

    But, for now, why wouldn't dinosaurs evolve like humans, since they roamed the Earth roughly twice as long as humans?

  2. #2
    Registered User Seli's Avatar
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    You might want to check: http://www.strangehorizons.com/2009/.../trent-a.shtml.

    The first Science of Discworld book also touches on the general idea as well.

  3. #3
    *facepalms and tries his hardest to with hold his rants and fury over the foolishness spread by the ancient aliens nut jobs and UFO cultists.*

    I would explain to you how our evolution from arboreal ancestors lead to more dexterous hands and thus greater ability to use tools as well as certain other factors, but I would just go verbally ballistic and make an attempt to separate myself from the rest humanity until it either destroys it's self, grows wiser, or at the very least starts learning about this sort of thing.

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    Omni Magazine did an interesting article on this very subject back in the 1980s. The article included conceptual art of what dinosaurs might evolve into, if evolution had occurred. It's a shame they went out of business.

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    Can't do anything but shake my head at the idea that you don't believe humans evolved because dinosaurs didn't become super intelligent.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sci_Fantasy_Ice View Post
    Can't do anything but shake my head at the idea that you don't believe humans evolved because dinosaurs didn't become super intelligent.
    As I said, I don't believe in evolution or creation.

    I tend to agree more with Immanuel Velikovsky's theories as well as Gordon Michael Scallion's ideas of extraterrestrial interventions along the way. The more truth comes out about Earth and its' place in our galaxy, more evidence is starting to support the notion.

    There is some evolution, due to radiation causing mutations, and adopting to environments. But, much less than what evolutionists believe.

    I believe we will one day find different versions of humans, dinosaurs, and other species on other worlds. Different types and levels of radiation and gravity will cause some interesting versions of life, as well as advance civilizations. However, a basic set of laws of nature will allow some things to be the same everywhere.

    Example, males may not be the dominate gender on another advanced world. Radiation may effect grown by stumping it in males and allow females to grow bigger and stronger. Or, we may come across humanoids with a skin of a totally different pigmentation because of different elements in their atmosphere.

    Have you heard of the theory that y-chromosomes are slowly becoming fewer and fewer here on Earth? Women will outnumber men more and more over the eons. There are theories about this being examined even now.
    Last edited by Modern Day Myth; October 1st, 2012 at 11:00 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Day Myth View Post
    As I said, I don't believe in evolution or creation.

    I tend to agree more with Immanuel Velikovsky's theories as well as Gordon Michael Scallion's ideas of extraterrestrial interventions along the way. The more truth coming out about Earth and its' place in our galaxy, more evidence is starting to support the notion.

    There is some evolution, due to radiation causing mutations, and adopting to environments. But, much less than what evolutionists believe.

    I believe we will one day find different versions of humans, dinosaurs, and other species on other worlds. Different types and levels of radiation and gravity will cause some interesting versions of life, as well as advance civilizations. However, a basic set of laws of nature will allow some things to be the same everywhere.

    Example, males may not be the dominate gender on another advanced world. Radiation may effect grown by stumping it in males and allow females to grow bigger and stronger. Or, we may come across humanoids with a skin of a totally different pigmentation because of different elements in their atmosphere.

    Have you heard of the theory that y-chromosomes are slowly becoming fewer and fewer here on Earth? Women will outnumber men more and more over the eons. There are theories about this being examined even now.
    First of all, mutations caused by radiation of any kind are not beneficial.You also fail to grasp the concepts of vestigial structures that fade over time, and the idea of genetic anomalies that occur that make one more suitable for survival. The individuals with this trait survive, they breed, and eventually this trait becomes dominant. Furthermore, if you really knew anything about human history you would realize how ludicrous the ancient aliens theory is.The basics of cultural evolution blow these things to bits in so many ways to begin with. The basics of physics would also make space travel a very taxing venture no matter how advanced extraterrestrial technology is. Also, this world is likely a back water part of the galaxy they have little interest in compared to other closer worlds. You also over state the importance of genetics in the development or gender based hierarchies, especially in species with human like thought. Furthermore, our knowledge of physics in conjunction with geological evidence has confirmed much of what we believe. Observed data has also made the previous theories in evolutionary thought such as Lamarckianism largely obsolete.

  8. #8
    Live Long & Suffer psikeyhackr's Avatar
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    Far-Seer is a novel written by Canadian science fiction author, Robert J. Sawyer.[1] It is the first book of the Quintaglio Ascension Trilogy, and is followed by two sequels: Fossil Hunter, and Foreigner.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-Seer

    psik

  9. #9
    Registered User ian_sales's Avatar
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    Harry Harrison's West of Eden was set in a civilisation of intelligent dinosaurs. There were, iirc, a number of sequels.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Riothamus View Post
    First of all, mutations caused by radiation of any kind are not beneficial.You also fail to grasp the concepts of vestigial structures that fade over time, and the idea of genetic anomalies that occur that make one more suitable for survival. The individuals with this trait survive, they breed, and eventually this trait becomes dominant. Furthermore, if you really knew anything about human history you would realize how ludicrous the ancient aliens theory is.The basics of cultural evolution blow these things to bits in so many ways to begin with. The basics of physics would also make space travel a very taxing venture no matter how advanced extraterrestrial technology is. Also, this world is likely a back water part of the galaxy they have little interest in compared to other closer worlds. You also over state the importance of genetics in the development or gender based hierarchies, especially in species with human like thought. Furthermore, our knowledge of physics in conjunction with geological evidence has confirmed much of what we believe. Observed data has also made the previous theories in evolutionary thought such as Lamarckianism largely obsolete.
    You statement is evidence that you have never read the works of Immanuel Velikovsky. How the wooly mammoth and saber tooth tiger became modern elephants and tigers are believed to be triggered from radioactive meteors crashing onto the Earth in past history. Immanuel Velikovsky's Earth In Upheaval connects changes in the woolly mammoth and saber tooth tigers to historical records of meteors and other objects crashing onto the Earth from space. Interesting how you automatically assume I'm talking about advanced civilizations from the stars visiting the Earth. Although, you may find Major Donald Keyhoe's Alien's From Space an interesting read, especially about his claims the US Navy may have discovered evidence of ancient astronauts on Earth. I would give a man with his experience more attention than Erik Von Daniken's Chariots Of The Gods.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
    Far-Seer is a novel written by Canadian science fiction author, Robert J. Sawyer.[1] It is the first book of the Quintaglio Ascension Trilogy, and is followed by two sequels: Fossil Hunter, and Foreigner.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-Seer

    psik
    Interesting ... thank you.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ian_sales View Post
    Harry Harrison's West of Eden was set in a civilisation of intelligent dinosaurs. There were, iirc, a number of sequels.
    Thanks for the 411.

  13. #13
    Registered User mylinar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Day Myth View Post
    As I said, I don't believe in evolution or creation.

    I tend to agree more with Immanuel Velikovsky's theories as well as Gordon Michael Scallion's ideas of extraterrestrial interventions along the way. The more truth comes out about Earth and its' place in our galaxy, more evidence is starting to support the notion.
    There is no credible evidence that extra terrestrials have ever been to Earth, let alone intervened in Human existance. Immanuel Velikovsky has been througly debunked just by the existance of the inner Solar System. He proposed that Venus was a comet spun out from Jupiter. However any computer model using such a situation would so completely change the orbits of existing planets that they would not now be in the patterns they are. Gravity is an inconvient (although thorougly testable) fact, just ask anyone who has fallen down stairs.

    Extraordinarly claims require extrordinary evidence. Where is it? Evolution on the other hand can be seen today in the rise of Anti-Biotic resistant microbes and the life on the Galapagos (Darwin remember?). These small incremental steps, while not incontrovertible proof, are certainly a mountain compared the the ET molehill (if that big).

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    Registered User JunkMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mylinar View Post
    There is no credible evidence that extra terrestrials have ever been to Earth, let alone intervened in Human existance.
    Or are even out there in the first place*.



    *Or (if you want to follow the Hollow Earth path of fruitloopery) in here.

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    Registered User JunkMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sci_Fantasy_Ice View Post
    Can't do anything but shake my head at the idea that you don't believe humans evolved because dinosaurs didn't become super intelligent.
    Personally I can't believe in dinosaurs because trilobites didn't develop far enough to invent computers.

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