On repetition

[Taramoc]

Funny because I read Kafka and Godot in Italian back in the days, maybe I should read them in English again and see if I feel differently

Incidentally, I do like slow, especially in anime movies (for example I love Shinkai's 5 centimetres per second), so I may be ok with Kimi ni Todoke, but in film I think it's easier to deal with repetition. Movies like Pi or The Limey used it constantly and not for structural reasons and it works great.

[Dawnstorm]

Incidentally, I do like slow, especially in anime movies (for example I love Shinkai's 5 centimetres per second), so I may be ok with Kimi ni Todoke, but in film I think it's easier to deal with repetition. Movies like Pi or The Limey used it constantly and not for structural reasons and it works great.

Heh, I picked Kimi ni Todoke because it's the simplest and most obvious example of what I call "iteration": things don't seem to change, but there's a steady back-ground progress. 5 cm per second is slow in terms of mood, but it's not repetitive; rather, it's (as far as I recall) episodic (was three part original video animation in Japan, and is marketed as movie in the west [which explains its 3-part structure]). Kimi ni Todoke, in comparison, is a two season TV series; the first season has 25 episodes, the second season 12. The entire show ends with the first kiss (after 37 episodes). It was a manga first; for all I know that's still ongoing. The entire 37 episodes basically consists of the two main characters being embarrassed while looking at each other. The male lead has practically no development and is more an ideal fantasy than a real person (though, considering that, pretty well done). The plot is driven by the female lead's development, as she's coming out of her shell. I love the first season (and still like the second season, but it's executed with less care). A lot of people got bored with that approach and quit on the show (and many of those who still finished up still think the approach is its weakness). It's not that it's slow, it's that the repetition stands out. Personally, I like it at that. (It doesn't work as well during the second season, but that's probably more to do with the production values of the show; you can see the quality difference in the flashback scenes.)

I feel 1Q84 was like that, too, but more complicated because there was more external development, and a more complex mash-up of themes.

...but in film I think it's easier to deal with repetition. Movies like Pi or The Limey used it constantly and not for structural reasons and it works great.

That's interesting. I'm curious about Pi; I've read the book, but haven't seen the film yet.

***

Basically, I can think of three types of repetition:

Variation: some element is repeated with a slight difference or in a different context. Waiting for Godot would fall into that category.

Iteration: What's repeated is a process, and the end-result of the process is the condition of the next iteration. I think both 1Q84 and Kimi ni Todoke fall into that category, but also time-loop stories (such as Groundhog Day).

Accumulation: The repetition signals something other than itself. Any sort of rhyme could serve as an example, here.

Both iteration and accumulation involve variation, but variation can be an end in itself.

Impromptu theory, not that well thought through.

[Taramoc]

It works for me Dawnstorm. Now thanks to you and Fung Koo I have some real terminology to refer to all of this.

Thanks!