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  1. #46
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    Just noticing when reading the posts, that probably most of the completely hated characters are female ones written by male authors. I have often thought male authors do tend to write women worse than women write male characters. Even when getting away from the beautiful bimbo sterotypes, they seem to make women a bit twee and precious-- you know, they save the world then go on to stamp their feet in rage, pout, and generally act in a rather odd manner!.What does everyone else think?

  2. #47
    What my original intention in saying was...
    I mean characters that are a waste of paper

    Ok Blizz, just Polgara then.

  3. #48
    Ancient Member Bardos's Avatar
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    Wolfhead> You're right. But I can't figure out why, apart from this: These people don't really want to have strong women in their stories, but they do it just to please the audience. It's the line of thinking that, if you put a couple of strong women in the story, more female reader are going to buy it.

    That's good or bad? IMO, it's bad, for a writer needs to writer what s/he wants to write, not be force --b/c monsters like that will be the outcome.

    Once I've read an interview by Barclay in SffSite. And, in that interview, he was saying that one of his characters (a mage, I think; I haven't read any of his work) was male in the begining, but then the publisher told him that he must put some females in his work to sell more (!). So the guy made the male mage a female one.

    Now, does that make you want to puke or not?
    I'm not saying that Barclay's (sic) novels are not worth the reading (as I said, I haven't read them yet), but it's the line of think ("let's rape the story/characters to sell more") that disgusts me.

    Now, e.g., in Steven Erikson's work I can't see any forced female characters. That's why I think that women in his story act normaly. Yes they are carrying swords and slaying people, but, when they are talking or thinking, you know they talk and think like humans, not like some bezzare allien creature from Planet Ghj'tr'fs'ajslka.

  4. #49
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    Umm I know several allien creatures from the Planet Ghj'tr'fs'ajslka that would be insulted by that comment Bardos.

  5. #50
    Ancient Member Bardos's Avatar
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    Yes, all Jordan's female characters, I guess!

  6. #51
    Hail to the king, baby! MrKip's Avatar
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    There is a difference between hating someone and actually despising someone: for instance the whole Reagl thing. I'm half way through Assassin's quest and I'm pretty certain that whatever happens to Regal probably will not sate the absolute digust I have for the charector. Its like the bit in the film 'Seven' where Morgan Freeman tells Brad Pitt that capturing John Doe will only be a let down because at the end of it all he's only going to be human. Its alright to want the good guys to win, but the best bad guys always have a touch of respect as well.

  7. #52
    The Trickster
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    Egwene,Perrin and Faile from WoT
    All the Stark's family including John Snow,Deneris and Stannis from aSoIaF

  8. #53
    Sam from LoTR is my favourite in this category.He is surely the most stupid idiot I have read about in the fantasy genre.

  9. #54
    Illustrious Gambler saintjon's Avatar
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    Okay Blizz, if you just want waste of space characters: Fewmaster Toede (just what the hell was the point of him becoming a dragon highlord, anyway?), that big Cherek guy's son in the Malloreon, Moghedian (when was the last time she was even remotely intimidating?), Lelorinel from Sea of Swords (did that surprise ending really surprise anyone?), everyone from the Pool of Radiance series (way too bloody powerful too soon to be even remotely interesting), most of the characters from the Legend of Five Rings Clan War story (can't remember the names), the list goes on...

    Honestly though, when you ask it that way I don't feel as though any of Martin's characters are a waste of paper. Even the one's I've totally despised or have been utterly useless have contributed to the story.

  10. #55
    Guardian of sffworld Moderator James Barclay's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff Bardos. But you need to be aware of phrases like 'out of context' and 'editorial authority' with regard to the interview.

    This wasn't just a name change and the growing of breasts. Every line, action and reaction had to work or the change wouldn't have been made. So did the reactions of linked characters. Do not think this was something undertaken lightly, it represented major structural change.

    There was a genuine feeling held by the publisher that the weight of strong male characters in the novel seriously upset the balance and one effect would be less people liking it and hence less sales.

    This is a commercial business, when all is said and done and the character in question did work better female than male. That's what a good editor does. Looks beyond the obvious and helps the author improve their work.

    There was no raping the story to sell more. There was improving the novel and the balance of characters and their interactions to sell more. If that disgusts you then I'm sorry but improving a novel always has to be the right move.

  11. #56
    Illustrious Gambler saintjon's Avatar
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    Did you guys know Luke Skywalker was originally supposed to be a girl? Do you think the story would have been better or worse if that hadn't changed?

  12. #57
    Ancient Member Bardos's Avatar
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    "Improvement" is a very generalistic word. It can mean anything. For me "improvement" is not neccesary more sales.

    [This message has been edited by Bardos (edited March 13, 2002).]

  13. #58
    Still evolving kassimir funk's Avatar
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    Luke Skywalker was originally supposed to be a girl???

    I need some time to deal with this... yes... time... I think.

    Just being humorous.

    I suppose it could have been just as good, better or possibly worse. We'll never know.
    The sex of the main character should be secondary to what they actually do.

    More importantly... I see a third, re-edited version of Star wars in our future.


    P.S. So what about princess Leah?

  14. #59
    Member kaseryn's Avatar
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    Hang on, you mean Skywalker wasn't a girl ?

  15. #60
    Aww saintjon you don't like Moggy? She's my favorite pusillanimous villainess.

    At the very least she should be excused for bringing a truly grating character like Liandrin into line.

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