Is Darkness that Comes Before Hardcover Worthy?/R. Scott Bakker

**Larry** · July 13th, 2004, 01:15 PM

And here's Scott posting about the Contest on Three Seas:

Official Announcement

**Shevchyk** · July 13th, 2004, 04:10 PM

Incidentally, I went looking for the Encyclopedia of Fantasy today at a local Chapters. Instead I saw Bakker's book staring at me near the beginning of the fantasy section. And just a perpendicular wall away from the Catwoman novelization.

[Cue Evil Overlord Laughter]:

Muwahahahahahahahaha!

**saintjon** · July 13th, 2004, 09:32 PM

Ouch man what a contest. I feel as if I barely have a handle on kellhus, much less the Holy Grail of the Logos.

Coincidentally Rob, how do you feel about Kellhus' treatment of those around him? It seems like there are a lot of different ways to interpret him, he had me even more jumbled than Covenant. My best attempt to pare him down to where I felt I could make a clear judgement about him is this: he may not do wrong by his standards, but he does do so by mine. I wish I had my copy of The Darkness handy so I could quote the Dunyain from the prologue, but I think he said something along the lines of, "Crimes will not go on so long as war exists, only as long as men are decieved." From that, based on Kellhus actions throughout the story, it seems like the few people he's willing to let in on the Dunyain lifestyle, he only offers enough to make himself a life raft in their misunderstanding. Furthermore, the way he set himself up in the second book, (want to stay vague because I don't want to have to put up a spoiler-warning) is a bald deceipt of those around him, given his hidden truth that religion is just another lie man perpetuates upon himself. So what it came down to was this, that I fail to see how being decieved by history and the trappings of culture is worse than being decieved by Kellhus. That and the only sort of compassion he has is when he wears it like your or I would wear a nice shirt.

Okay, off to think about how I define the Darkness That Comes Before.

**Rob B** · July 14th, 2004, 11:19 AM

At the very least, Kellhus is somewhat conflicted. On one hand, I think Kellhus sees other people as tools, but he does see them as people. He wants people to go along with his beliefs, but in subtle manipulative manner.

**Larry** · July 14th, 2004, 12:02 PM

I agree with the inner conflict Kellhus is experiencing. His bit toward the end of TWP reflecting on his father really was illumining.

But speaking of characters, I have to say that Cnaiür might be one of the more interesting fantasy characters I've read in years. I thought Bakker did a nice job explaining the significance of the Scylvendi arm scarring. Hopefully, more will be revealed about them in TTT next year.

**saintjon** · July 14th, 2004, 08:40 PM

Oh yeah man, the whole "principle cast" is just superbly written. The way Cnaiur just goes so completely over the top in a fight, it reminds me of some of the people from Romance of the Three Kingdoms, who supposedly could break formations just by being so ferocious.

You're right Rob, I did catch that. And now I will need a spoiler warning *sigh*

*************SPOILERS! SPOILERS! RARARA!***************
**avert your eyes lest I lessen your enjoyment of the Warrior-Prophet!***

ahem. that apparition kellhus saw, which he thought was his father, talked very much like Mog-Pharau. Do you guys think that that was the Thousandfold Thought? I can't even seem to word the implications I'm seeing. Stupid vast possibilities of dreadful consequence. One thing Akka's taking for granted that I've noticed, Anasuribor Celmomas only said that one of his line would return at the end of the world, he never said anything about that descendant being a saviour.

What I really want to know is what went down between Kellhus, Cnaiur and Achamian after they got him off of that tree.

Yeah whenever something rocks Kellhus' boat a bit it makes me a very happy monkey.

**Rob B** · July 19th, 2004, 11:19 AM

Hey all, if you are interested in R. Scott Bakker's works, check out the e-mail interview I recently conducted with him:
http://www.sffworld.com/authors/b/ba...ws/200407.html

**Larry** · July 19th, 2004, 11:28 AM

Loved the interview. Posted a link to it on wotmania's Other Fantasy page, just so more can read it. Good job!

**Rob B** · July 19th, 2004, 01:14 PM

Thanks, Ald. Scott comes across, not just in this interview, but in e-mails as a genuinely good guy who puts a lot of work into his writing and loves it. He also likes Hockey and Black Sabbath.

**AuntiePam** · July 19th, 2004, 05:26 PM

Didn't anyone else read the thread title as "The Darkness That Comes Before Hardcover"?

I pictured a writer, maybe sitting in a closet, waiting to hear from his publisher about whether his new book was going to come out as a hardcover or as a lowly paperback.

Glad I opened the thread though; this sounds like a great book.

How do you say his name? Baker or Bocker?

**Larry** · July 19th, 2004, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Fitz

Thanks, Ald. Scott comes across, not just in this interview, but in e-mails as a genuinely good guy who puts a lot of work into his writing and loves it. He also likes Hockey and Black Sabbath.

And don't forget the beer! I got to meet Scott at a book signing in Nashville a month ago and I'll whole-heartedly second the opinion of him being a good guy. It's good to see that his interviews reveal hints of his personality, because I'm sure there are a good many who don't want to see a Goodkind-like attitude projected.

**Larry** · July 19th, 2004, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Didn't anyone else read the thread title as "The Darkness That Comes Before Hardcover"?

I pictured a writer, maybe sitting in a closet, waiting to hear from his publisher about whether his new book was going to come out as a hardcover or as a lowly paperback.

Glad I opened the thread though; this sounds like a great book.

How do you say his name? Baker or Bocker?

Baker, if I heard the introduction right when I attended the book signing. I guess I should have asked Scott that earlier.

**saintjon** · July 19th, 2004, 09:53 PM

I was telling my mom about him the other day and she remarked that I may be related to him, her grandfather spelled his Baker with 2 "k"s. All kinds of Bakers in Ontario I guess. Whatever, doesn't amount to anything anyways, I just thought it was kind of neat.

I want to expand on my earlier wish that he were in on our discussions and say how different our big discussions lately might have looked if he'd been around to present his case. I think that's probably the most eloquent defence of epic fantasy (and it's current market dominance) that I've read yet.

Love them books! One thing I'm gonna have to ask him is what experience/ inspiration he draws on to write combat. From brawny Cnaiur to sleek Kellhus to tac-nuke Akka he does as admirably in that area as he does with his characters' thought processes.

I thought it was neat to hear how philosophy enabled him to tell his story the way he wanted. That is a real life achievement, to provide for yourself exactly the thing you needed. I wonder if there are authors who write with a block they can't articulate, and how different their work would be if they could find something that similarly enables them.

BTW Rob it can be kind of hard to find a guy his age in this province who doesn't like Sabbath and hockey

.

**Eldanuumea** · September 3rd, 2004, 08:50 PM

I bought a hardcover last night called The Darkness That Comes Before, Book One of the Prince of Nothing series.
I had never heard of this author or book, but it looks impressive. Is anyone familiar with it? The copyright date is 2003 but the American pub. date is 2004, so apparently it has been out for a while.