Matthew Woodring Stover

**neologik** · September 7th, 2001, 01:29 PM

OK. Who's read him? Who hasn't?

I'm curious, because Matt just turned in a proposal for three new Overworld novels, and the strenght of the proposal must be coupled with the strength of his sales. So who's buying?

I need to know. And if you post enough, I betcha I can get him to drop in and say 'hello', which he doesn't do much...

--gabe chouinard--
www.sfsite.com/fm - Fantastic Metropolis
Dislocated Fictions, only @ SFSite.com

**Shehzad** · September 7th, 2001, 07:33 PM

Well, as I said before, you were spot-on in your praise of Mieville, so I'm getting Heroes Die shortly. As soon as I read it, I'll tell you, but I'm really looking forward to it.

**neologik** · September 7th, 2001, 07:44 PM

Shehzad -- Miéville is easy, everyone is praising him. Stover is a harder sell, but is well worth the effort. God's sakes, he was the one that brought PERDIDO to my attention in the first place!

You *will like* HEROES DIE. You will like BLADE OF TYSHALLE even more.

I promise.

--gabe

**FitzChivalry** · September 8th, 2001, 03:08 AM

Hasn't.

**Shehzad** · September 8th, 2001, 04:45 AM

In that case, I *will get back* to you in 10 days' time, hopefully with some feedback.

**Steven Savile** · September 8th, 2001, 01:44 PM

Okay - I have in my possession an ARC of Matthew Woodring Stover's IRON DAWN - anyone interested in doing a trade for something else (I have 2 copies of IRON DAWN incase you are wondering

)

Steve

**Rob B** · September 9th, 2001, 11:33 AM

THREE Overworld novels!!!

Whoa. Obviously, I'd be picking them up. Hardcover would be nice, too!

**neologik** · September 9th, 2001, 06:57 PM

Hey, Curledup!

I've read your interview with Matt, I think... am I right?!?!

Groovy.

**curledup** · September 10th, 2001, 08:24 AM

I've read him, and am convinced that he's one of the best contemporary sf/f writers out there. I've done my best to spread that word, too! Three more Overworld novels is something spectacular to look forward to...

**Shehzad** · September 30th, 2001, 10:47 AM

You were wrong, Neologik....

I *LOVED* Heroes Die.

So far 2/2 for the recommendations!

Ash up next...

**Hobbit** · September 30th, 2001, 11:21 AM

Someone mentioned Ash again...

Gabe - you know my answer here. No I haven't.
Yes, I will (but i'm trying to work on the pile a little!).

Enough people here have said enough to suggest 'they're good 'uns'.

Not easy to get here in the UK though.

I'm working on it!

Hobbit

**neologik** · September 30th, 2001, 06:39 PM

Shehzad; I KNEW it! Glad you liked! But I'm amazed that you're heading for ASH instead of rushing out for BLADE OF TYSHALLE, which is even *BETTER* than HEROES DIE.

Hobbit; yes, you've got your failings, don't you?

Nevermind. I'm sure that you'll get to it soon. Right? (OH, and by the way... weren't you going to send some reviews my way for Fantastic Metropolis? And FitzFlagg was going to as well.... hmmmm....)

--gabe chouinard

**Shehzad** · September 30th, 2001, 08:28 PM

Actually, I have to have all my books carted over from the US or UK - especially the newer ones, and the last time someone came over I got Perdido, Heroes Die and Ash. I guess Blade of Tyshalle will have to wait for another relative to visit the US...

**jiels** · October 14th, 2001, 10:28 PM

Hi.

The more I read this forum, the more Matthew Woodring Stover's name comes up. And this intrigues me because I do not like this author.

I tried to read "Heroes Die" about 6 months a go but quit reading about a third the way through. This is very rare as I can only recall one other fantasy book that I quit reading. That was a Forgotten Realms book (Crusades was the name, iirc).

Everyone else that you people bring up, except for the Perdido book, I have read and enjoyed. So how come I didn't like this book while all you mature, intelligent readers did? That's what I keep asking myself. And since this is a forum thought I would change the question round and ask you.

Why did you like Stover's Heroes Die? What was so good, so standoutish about this book?

I found it was dull, boring, and just plain awful. Caine was sooooooooooo over-the-top and ridiculous. The characters seemed very 2 dimensional with Caine akin to one of the "insert name here" cardboard heroes of a Tsr novel.

Here is a good example of what I mean: "I am strong. I am relentless. I am inescapable.
.
.
I am invincible. I am the Blade of Tyshalle.
I am Caine"

Thanks for this quote FitzFlagg, by the way.

Should I have finished the book? Would it change my perceptions?

I am not trying to be mean or anything. I am honestly puzzled as to why you all liked it when I didn't.

Just so you know and can understand my viewpoint. My favorite authors are; George R.R. Martin, Orson Scott Card, Tolkein, Weis&Hickman, and more recently, Dave Duncan. With honorable mentions to Feist, Jordan, Pratchett, Kay and Glenn Cook.

Thanks for your time,
just a newbie

**Shehzad** · October 14th, 2001, 10:55 PM

Thou didnst like Stover and Mieville? HERESY!! Thou arest hereby EXCOMMUNICATED!!

j/k

Since I am the first of the Stover brigade to respond, I'll put a few pints down and then wait for FF and Neologik to fill in the blanks.

First of all, one thing I liked about Stover is that his book as a gritty realism about it. This isn't a fairy tale-people are going to get hurt and he makes no apologies for it. Like in real life, people die, and they die in ugly ways. Deaths are not always heroic, injuries are not always glorified, just like in real life.

Secondly, I found none of characters to be "cardboard" per se. First of all, Caine isn't your everyday hero. In fact, he's a cold-blooded assassin, and yet he's the hero. One of the villains, Ma'elkoth is a good king, someone who brings stability to the land. Berne has more of the characteristics of a villain, yet it could be argued that Caine's actions are just as bad. The only character who has the characteristics of a hero(ine) is Pallas Ril. There is no clearcut battle between good and evil, no sides, no heroic knights, no damsels in distress, no evil villains. Instead there are people with various motivations, mostly selfish, sometimes noble. It is a clash of motivations and interests rather than a humdrum battle of good-vs-evil.

Thridly, Stover doesn't preach at you. he doesn't tell you what to think about his characters - instead he just shows you the characters and lets you make up your mind. Someone I know though Berne had some characteristics of a hero - he does, in fact!! It's up to you to decide.

As far as the quote and Caine are concerned, remember that Caine is above all, an ACTOR. he HAS to be over-the-top, or larger-than-life to his audience. The quote "I am..." was at a time when he was mentally preparing himself to assume the mantle of Caine. Remember that he was going into a battle for his life against his will for the entertainment of others. Also, in the rigidly casted world to which he belonged, he was ultimately powerless and insignificant, while in the Overworld he is powerful, a force to be reckoned with. It is these contrasting roles that you have to keep in mind.

Hope you will give it another go,
Shehzad