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  1. #31
    \m/ BEER \m/ Moderator Rob B's Avatar
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    Just thought I'd link to some of these old threads to show how much "we can't stand that Stover guy" here at SFFWorld:
    Matthew Woodring Stover
    Reverend Stover
    Stover is writing Star Wars III
    February BotM "HEROES DIE" by Matthew Woodring Stover

  2. #32
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    Hey, Matt,

    Thanks for the welcome. I haven't been posting much anywhere for a while, it seems. Even my own site started having tumbleweed sightings. But I think I'm past that.

    Looking forward to Episode III novelization, although I'm still not sure whether I want to read it or see the movie first. Have you any opinion on such an issue?

    Gotta run now, since I can't stand you. Jerk.

    Merv out

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mervius
    Hey, Matt,

    Thanks for the welcome. I haven't been posting much anywhere for a while, it seems. Even my own site started having tumbleweed sightings. But I think I'm past that.

    Looking forward to Episode III novelization, although I'm still not sure whether I want to read it or see the movie first. Have you any opinion on such an issue?

    Gotta run now, since I can't stand you. Jerk.

    Merv out

    Buy the book first. That's all I really care about.

    Well, okay, not really.

    It's worth saying again:

    I did my best to make the adaptation of REVENGE OF THE SITH a companion piece to the film, rather than a retelling; it tells the story from the inside (of the characters' heads, as it were) out, where film -- by necessity -- tells the story from the outside in.

    Will reading the book first spoil some of the coolnesses in the film? Of course. Will it spoil ALL of them? Not even close.

    In fact, there are a few things in the film that aren't in the book at all . . .

    And there are a LOT of things in the book that aren't in the film.

    So watching the film first won't spoil all the surprises in the novel, either.

    My goal was to write the book so that it really didn't matter -- you could watch the movie first, or read the book first, and have a great time doing both either way.

    But you really should do both. Everyone should do both.

    Everyone on Earth.

    Get the word out, huh?
    Last edited by MWStover; February 3rd, 2005 at 09:54 AM. Reason: friggin' typos . . .

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mervius
    Gotta run now, since I can't stand you. Jerk.
    Oh, and I almost forgot --

    P*** off, creep. Was the ground cold when you crawled out this morning?
    Last edited by MWStover; February 3rd, 2005 at 09:56 AM. Reason: the delicate sensibilities of sffworldies

  5. #35
    Illustrious Gambler saintjon's Avatar
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    I see what you mean by that, the opening of Shatterpoint has me itching to see that scene again.

  6. #36

    Stover

    I loved Heroes Die. It was action-packed from start to finish, violent in a realistic, brutal way that showed the consequences of real 'action' as against the glossed-over sanitised thing that passes for violence in most fantasy novels. Blade of Tyshalle was a good follow-up, but yeah, I agree with you guys that it suffered in comparison--but only in comparison. I think Stover's a terrifically talented author and love him for not selling out to the ubiquitous 'knights and dragons' epic fantasy machine that churns out tripe.

    But I'm curious, how well do your books sell as against the big guns? Does your brand of realistic violence do really well? Are you under pressure to produce more unicorns and elves and curb the realism?

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by MWStover
    Buy the book first. That's all I really care about.

    Everyone on Earth.

    Get the word out, huh?
    Spoken like a true writer.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by prohasta
    how well do your books sell as against the big guns? Does your brand of realistic violence do really well? Are you under pressure to produce more unicorns and elves and curb the realism?
    1.) Not so well.

    2.) See Answer #1.

    3.) Yes.


    I'd sell out in a second, but somehow I just can't make myself write that, uh, stuff.

  9. #39
    Give me liberty! Ouroboros's Avatar
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    I only came across your books when I first logged onto SFFworld.com (which just seems wrong). Being a rabid fan of the gritty stuff, I was surprised that I'd never heard of them before.

    After establishing that they just aren't to be found here, or when I was in the UK, I ordered them off amazon along with a load of other hard to find stuff from Baen.

    I think you're getting a raw deal, in many ways, considering how well heroic fantasy from the likes of David Gemmell sells here, and the cult fanbase that he has established. It seems a shame that more readers on this side of the atlantic aren't introduced to Caine.

    Obligatory fanboy question : Heinlein wrote Manny from The Moon is a harsh mistress as being asian, or some non-caucasian future hodge-podge. Am I right in thinking this is also the case with Caine?

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Ouroboros
    Obligatory fanboy question : Heinlein wrote Manny from The Moon is a harsh mistress as being asian, or some non-caucasian future hodge-podge. Am I right in thinking this is also the case with Caine?
    Hari's father, Duncan Michaelson, is North American of Scots/English extraction. His mother, Davia Khapur, was Bengali.

    And thanks. I'd love to see HEROES DIE and BLADE OF TYSHALLE on the shelves in the UK -- but the publishers over there aren't exactly beating down my agent's door.

    (btw, UK rights for my work are still being handled, I believe, by Abner Stein, in case anybody knows somebody . . .)

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by MWStover
    I'd sell out in a second, but somehow I just can't make myself write that, uh, stuff.
    I hear you.

    But, um, aren't you writing Star Wars spin-offs?

    So how is doing sharecrop stuff okay but writing more commercial fantasy not? And don't give me the line about SW being a great pool to take a dip in, crap. For George Lucas maybe it's great, but for another writer, it's just sloppy seconds.

    So why not work that mind muscle and come up with something that's gritty but also expands your readership. Not saying it's a kneejerk, one-two, probably is a deadlift double your usual load, but hey, better than just treading water in someone else's skanky pool, what?

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by prohasta
    I hear you.

    But, um, aren't you writing Star Wars spin-offs?

    So how is doing sharecrop stuff okay but writing more commercial fantasy not? And don't give me the line about SW being a great pool to take a dip in, crap. For George Lucas maybe it's great, but for another writer, it's just sloppy seconds.

    So why not work that mind muscle and come up with something that's gritty but also expands your readership. Not saying it's a kneejerk, one-two, probably is a deadlift double your usual load, but hey, better than just treading water in someone else's skanky pool, what?
    Read my Star Wars stuff. Then we'll talk again.

    Till then, keep the condescending crap to yourself. Or you'll regret it.

  13. #43
    The Doctor... Sammie's Avatar
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    Perhaps a little strongly put, but a fair point.

    Quote Originally Posted by prohasta
    I loved Heroes Die. It was action-packed from start to finish, violent in a realistic, brutal way that showed the consequences of real 'action' as against the glossed-over sanitised thing that passes for violence in most fantasy novels....I think Stover's a terrifically talented author and love him for not selling out to the ubiquitous 'knights and dragons' epic fantasy machine that churns out tripe.
    I can only echo.....read the StarWars stuff before you judge..........they are action-packed, realistic, brutal, and definitely, utterly, 100% dragon-free!

    Oh - and they are gritty, and have (I believe, Matt??) expanded his readership too. I think that covers all your criteria, Prohasta.

  14. #44
    Give me liberty! Ouroboros's Avatar
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    Shatterpoint is a slick novel in its own right, I read the first chunk of it this morning. If you ask me we should be thanking people like Stover and Zahn who step up to write these novels ... they handle the franchise far more adeptly than its creator/owner...

    Not that the begrudgers and mud-slingers really care whether the books are any good or not. This isn't about that at all: Its more about taking the chance to safely and annonymously lash out at someone who has published several successful novels.

    Whenever a 'known' person shows up on an internet forum, whatever it is devoted to, you inevitably get envious people trying to pull them down.

    Can't remember where I heard it, but there's a great saying: There's no point in wrestling with pigs- you just get muddy, and the pigs like it.

    Mod edit: removed a rather strong swear word from your post, Ouro! (If you can't remember what it was, best PM me! ) Sammie.
    Last edited by Ouroboros; February 14th, 2005 at 06:58 AM.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ouroboros
    Can't remember where I heard it, but there's a great saying: There's no point in wrestling with a pigs- you just get muddy, and the pigs like it.
    Yeah, but I like it better.

    After reading my post again, I realized it sounded like I was threatening to flame him, or something stupid like that.

    Not at all.

    Not only do I not bother with that kind of crap, he said he loved HEROES DIE, which makes him okay by me.

    The only threat was to his self-esteem, when he finally did read, say, SHATTERPOINT or REVENGE OF THE SITH, and came to realize he had inadvertently unleashed his inner pinhead.

    He'll be all right eventually.
    Last edited by MWStover; February 13th, 2005 at 12:32 PM. Reason: I need to learn to type

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