Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman

[bing]

Perhaps no one has posted on this in a while (as I am new to this forum), but if someone has not I aim to remedy that injustice now.

I have read praise for Martin, Brooks, Williams, Tolkien... but none yet for one of the greatest fantasy series of all times. Dragonlance Chronicles & Legends.

Think of your all time favorite characters. If you've read Dragonlance Chronicles & Legends, I'd almost have to guarantee that several of them are from the series. I'm just completely shocked that of all the authors mentioned, Weis and Hickman are rarely brought up.

These authors created Tasselhof, Flint, Raistlin, Caramon, Sturm, Kitiara, Zifnab, Fizban, Paladine. All of which are brilliant characters with even more brilliant relationships (see Flint and Tasselhof).

Can anyone poke holes at their work? It seems to me that for most authors of fantasy you can poke their stories full of holes, or pinpoint their flaws.

Jordan - Face it, there's no way to end the story. The web has been spun too far, he's even started dropping strands (what happened to Matt?)

Martin - For every character you could possibly feel an affection for, think of the worst possible thing that could happen to it. It will happen.

Williams - How many people thought the ending to Green Angel Tower fit the majesty and anguish of Camaris, Cadrach and the Sithi?

Goodkind - Wizard's First Rule was a superb book, but since then he's adopted the Street Fighter naming convention. I believe the next villain is going to be Super Evil Darken Rahl Turbo EX Alpha 4.

[Zsinj16]

I haven't read any of the books by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman yet, but boy are they ever on my "TO READ NEXT LIST"!!! I've heard that their novels are excellent!! Especially Dragonlance!! I mean have you ever seen the incredible cover artwork on these books!! The covers are so incredible they will blow you away!! And from hearing a lot about them, I think the stories inside will blow you away even more!! Whoever said "You can't judge a book by its cover" is certainly proved wrong in this instance!!

[e-Morgana]

Hi bing,
Well I know I have mentioned Weis and Hickman before (probably ad nauseum) as they are my all-time favourite fantasy authors. I've read all their stuff and find it very hard to pick which one is best. I'd probably go with the DeathGate Cycle as favourite though, if only because it is 7 books long so you can enjoy it longer. Dragonlance was brilliant as well and their older "Rose of the Prophet" was excellent too (with numerous belly laughs to make it even better). I must admit that the Darksword didn't quite do it for me as much as the others, but I enjoyed it anyway. (Just a question of degree).

So don't despair, there are definately some of us out here who haven't forgotten them.

[Shehzad]

Just for the record, Weis and Hickman didn't CREATE those characters or the world of Krynn, they were derived from a series of role-playing games put out by TSR in the early 80s. While playing these modules, the guy playing the Mage of the party started speaking in a whisper and gave the character the attributes of Raistlin, and voila, Margaret Weis was entranced. See the dragonlance FAQ for further details.

All the same I agree with you that Weis/Hickman are wonderful writers, and for a while were one of my favourites. However, their works are considered "lightweight" when compared to the more weighty writers like Donaldson and Tolkein. They're wonderful writers to introduce people to the genre, but like every other writer they have their flaws. I admire them immensely and I don't want this topic to go into a critical dissection of their works, so I'll stop here.

[Bardos]

Margaret Weiss & Tracy Hickman are wonderfull, skilled, imaginative writers. Period.

[Shadowen]

Haven't read any of their work for a year or two. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy their work - I do. Their books were among the first of the fantasy genre that I read (after starting with Eddings when I was very young)and I keep a soft spot for them (not Eddings though - sorry Belgarion!

I don't read them so much now as I discovered myself getting irritated with the characters never changing personalities - Flint as the gruff dwarf with the heart of gold, Tas as the innocent, mischievous child, Caramon the loyal, slightly thick unbeatable warrior, Tika the feisty redhead; the wily elf who's name i can't remember - I could go on but I don't want to annoy anyone.

The Death Gate cycle was a great read, Rose of the Prophet mildly amusing. I haven't tried Well of Darkness yet - the reviews haven't been great. Anyone here care to venture an opinion?

[FitzChivalry]

Weis&Hickman probably are considered lightweight because they wrote for TSR, but their work is better than 90% of the fantasy out there.
Dragonlance Chronicles was great with some of the best characters ever.
Death Gate Cycle was also great with Haplo and Dog the best ever fantasy pair.
The Dark Sword was less good...
They are also the masters of comic reliefs, Fizban, Tas, Simkin... characters that really make you laugh at the right places.

[polgara]

Hi Bing,
My mum loves weis and hickman,
personally i have never got round to it.....
Pol

[Pathir]

Death Gate Cycle was excellent.
Dragonlance was good.
Darksword was not bad, it introduced Simkin,a great character.
I agree with many that the comic relief is often great with these two writers. Some very funny stuff...
Haven't read Well of..is it any good?

[Rob B]

Couldn't agree more with most of you the DragonLance Chronicles/Legends were great fantasy books that really helped to get me into fantasy. I must have re-read the Chronicles at least 3 or 4 times.

The Soulforge which gives a Raistlin's full origin was nice read as well, but I haven't yet read the follow-up Brothers in Arms.

I think I will wait for the new trilogy War of the Souls to be completed in paperback before I give it a go.

I liked the Darksword trilogy, but then again, I read it when it first came out about 10-15 years ago, the follow-up Legacy of the Darksword just didn't need to be written.

I had a tough time with the first 2 Death Gate books, but after seeing all the raves about it on the board here in the past year or so, I will give it another shot.

Whatever happened to the Starshield series? Looked promising but it stopped after 2 books, anybody read them?

[Shehzad]

I think that the Dragonlance books are probably one of the best books to get someone started on fantasy... as they did with me and a lot of other people on the forum. IMHO Legends is better than Chronicles, but maybe that's just because it gives more exposure to my favourite character, Raistlin. However, they messed up the series by writing "Dragons of Summer Flame"

The first two books of the Darksword trilogy were, I thought, probably their best writing. The world was fascinating, very original with a totally different view of magaic, quite apart from every other book I've read. The characters - Joram, Simkin, and the catalyst (damn, whats his name) - were well realized and beautifully fleshed out. The third book was a major disappointment for me though. The crossover thing didn't work - I guess that's all I can say without putting SPOILER on my message.

The Deathgate cycle was very good but rather uneven. It had its beautiful, almost sublime momets but it was a drag at times. Maybe seven books was too much?

The Rose of the Prophet was an interesting detour. That was one wacky series. Still I have a soft spot for it, if only because of Auda Ibn Jad.

I even read Margaret Weis' Star of the Guardians. Not very impressive - to be avoided.

The Starshield series was one I was looking forward to, but somehow they never materialized. I heard about the books of and on but there wasn't mcuh about them. Oh well...

Now, on to the War of Souls... in paperback, of course

[bing]

Ah, perhaps that's what I was driving at. What specificaitons does one judge fantasy by? Dragonlance could be considered lightweight, but it wasn't lightweight like the Xanth series was lightweight. The characters had immense depth, and the story was superbly executed.

Donaldson's and Tolkien's series were great as well, but drama doesn't necessarily make for good fantasy reading.

It seems at times that people forget that there is a joy in the act of reading, and I would accuse both Donaldson and Tolkien of forgetting this quite often.

I would certainly never argue that Weis' and Hickman's characters had anywhere near the depth of Donaldson's, nor would I argue that their world was as intricate as Tolkien's. Yet, I can read any genre for a trip into anguish and find depth in the characters. Also, there exist science fiction worlds that go into more depth than Tolkien did.

I don't want to take anything away from Donaldson or Tolkien, but I do want to draw attention to the importance of reading for fun. It seems to me that at times people equate suffering with brilliant writing and deep characters. The reason I read fantasy is the admiration of the creativity in writing and at times it seems to me that the way one character suffers is no more creative than another.

[FitzChivalry]

I think most people who say Dragonlance is lightweight say it because it's a TSR series which gives it automatically less of the "quality factor".
But when you look at it, you see that it wasn't that lightweight, the good heroes did die there unlike many other fantasy series, the heroes were tormented because of various reasons and some of them were actually dark figures (Raistlin) that won't make it in the usual fantasy series.
So why is it lightweight and how do you define lightweight? is it because it's a relatively short series with the usual plot of a bunch of heroes fighting a dark god that wants to take over the world?
The plotline was indeed not very unusual, i think what made that a favorite series to many readers was the unforgetabble group of heroes and not the story itself, but even the story had his pretty heavy moments of lost love, loss of friends and defeat like not many other stories had.
Anyway, my question stands, what is lightweight?

[Cannon Fodder]

I like Weis and Hickman's stuff basically. Their Dragonlance stuff helped get me into fantasy and I liked Deathgate and the Darksword trilogy. The only problem I have with their work was they have a touch of the Eddings factor ie repetition of plots and characters. Nothing too bad, but there were some elements in The Darksword trilogy, The Deathgate Cycle and then in Dragons of Summer flame that were very familiar on reflection:
There are two opposed and contrasting factions. The two main charcters are from each of the factions. One of them is an agressive, hardened type of character and the other is more thoughtful and wimpier. They hate each other at first but become friends whe they are forced together. The twos sides battle each other until near the end some third party turns up and everyone unites to beat them.

Admittedly I haven't read all their stuff so maybe it was just those three stories that had that template.

[allanon]

Weis&hickman are pretty nice authors.I like them.