June '06 BOTM: Peace by Gene Wolfe

[Erfael]

Hello all. Discussion is now open for Gene Wolfe's Peace.

As Fiqoret nominated Peace, (s)he's contributed a few questions to get the ball rolling:

- What is Weer's personal situation when he tells this story?

- There are many stories told by various characters in Peace, but few, if any, seem to be told to the end. Why is this?

- How many people has Weer killed?

- Is Peace really a fantasy novel? Is it a novel that generally would appeal more to fantasy readers than mainstream readers?

- Finally a question from Gene Wolfe himself: What is the name of the orange drink that Weer's factory produces? Remember that Julius Smart's orientalist wife Olivia named it.

[Eventine]

I finished this book earlier this week and was a little perplexed. Gene Wolfe loves using sub-stories within his novels (at least in those I've read), and I'm not sure I always pick up on their point.
The interesting thing about their use in this story, is their fragmented approach. Some will be a story recounted by another character, who is interrupted halfway through. Sometimes they trail off. Sometimes they seem to bear little relevance (at least to me) to the greater story being told.

I didn't really get into the book until the character of Julius Smart was introduced and told his story, which I found an interesting horror-style story.

Reading through the story (and this leads me to Fiqoret's first question) I was reminded of reading Hannibal by Thomas Harris, where Hannibal Lecter describes the construct he uses within his mind to remember things and flee to when he was in a prison environment - a palace within his mind. Weer's house seemed to me to be something along the same lines - a construct within his own mind of the rooms from his life. It made me wonder what the significance of him not being able to find some rooms, such as the Persian, was.

I'm guessing the juice was called Orange Julius? The name rings a bell, but I think it's a very US-centric question.

Onto the other questions later...

[Eventine]

On the topic of how many people has Weer killed:
Probably at least two, but potentially many more.

We know the Black boy dies, because there is some controversy around it which results in his parents taking their extended holidy through Europe. Considering the last time we see the boy he is in conflict with Weer, we can only guess that their confrontation led to the boys death, although if it is accidental or otherwise remains open to discussion. I'd put him down as a kill/death attributable to Weer.

The second person I feel Weer definitely killed was the librarian. Weer tells Gold that she left town, and we know that she turns a gun on him when they're digging looking for the gold. It's no great leap of logic to guess that he killed her and buried her body in the hole they were digging. The question, considering he deduced that there was no gold there, was if he worked out that there was no gold before he went there? This would imply that he mainly wanted to go dig a hole so he could kill her and hide the body. I'm unsure of his motive for that though. Either way, I'm sure he killed her.

Other dead people that Weer potentially killed:
Sherry Gold - he mentions he had his stroke the day after she died towards the start of the book. At the end of the book, the last time we see her is after he has gone to visit her father, and she is safe at that stage. I may have missed some more evidence, butit would seem a bit tenuous to blame her death on him when we don't even know how she died.

The worker in the factory - Another death that he is familiar with the circumstances of, but without too much evidence.

His secretary - I'm not even sure why I suspect of this, but she's dead and that's enough for me.

I also think there's maybe a chance he killed the profesor, but I'm not ure the book even mentions if he's dead or not.

[Erfael]

Popping in early (for me) this month.

As with everything else I've read by Wolfe, I just loved reading this book. It's rare that when I finish a book I have a strong urge to close it, turn it over, and open right up at the beginning again. If I didn't have SO MANY other books that need reading, I would have done an immediate reread here to see what else "popped."

So my thoughts for most of my time reading the book: "What an odd little book this is." It's sort of the story of Weer's life, but not really. As with all Wolfe's unreliable narrators, I really get the feeling that it's some arrangement of facts that Weer wants us to know...or things that he doesn't want us to know but accidentally gives us too much evidence over the course of the book.

I think the biggest issue to pick up on here has to do a little bit with the question of the stories being left unfinished. Wolfe has a fascination with the mechanics of telling a story. Whether it be true or not, whether it finishes or not, I think all of his stories comment in some way on the act of storytelling. I'm not sure what that comment is most of the time, but the fact that his books are so full of people telling other people stories really seems to be important.

As to why they don't end: Any number of reasons in context. Weer has forgotten the end. He never heard the end. He doesn't want to tell us the end. He gets distracted and talks about something else.

One thing I noticed about the stories was that most of them had some sort of "ghost" element to them (I'm pretty sure. It's been a few weeks now and I haven't reread). I'm not sure if we can take this as evidence that Weer is dead or not in and of itself, this fixation he has on remembering ghosts and death, but it is sort of interesting that the subject comes up so many times.

How many has Weer killed? You know, I've been conflicted about this one. The Black boy certainly, but I wasn't able to pin the librarian down to more than a maybe. If there's no treasure, why kill her? Again, may have missed some evidence here, but I certainly had the FEELING he killed her, if not anything to back it up. The other high-likelihood candidate I had was the man in the freezer. I thought Weer had ample opportunity to do that...again, though, no real motive or evidence I saw in my one read.

But the big one that I think he MIGHT have killed though is Aunt Olivia. He seems to make a big deal of the fact that after her death Julius never spoke to him. I don't remember evidence here, either, but it's one of those nagging thoughts in my head.

It's hard to say what my favorite part of the book was. As with most Wolfe, it's sort of an accrual experience. Everything adds to everything else, so it makes it difficult to pinpoint just one section. That, on top of the fact that the book was so short that I read it in about two sittings, really let me take it as a whole rather than a bunch of parts.

Final verdict: Yum.

[firqoret]

It was a great read. I don't think it did quite as much for me as TBotNS, The Fifth Head or Cerberus or Soldier of the Mist did, but that's mostly because i think a far future earth or ancient Greece is a much more interesting setting than the american midwest of the early twentieth century; I still enjoyed it immensly.
Wolfe is just such an amazing stylist. He writes with a stately elegance that for me at least is totally irresistable. Compared to many other writers of a more literary bent, he uses a relatively straight-forward prose, with few metaphores and similes, but this is weighed up by a percision and a musicality of language that probably is unrivalled within the fantastical genres and has few peers outside of them.

Reading a story by Gene Wolfe is like taking a ride on one of the big sailing ships of old.
You find yourself surrounded by an incredible maze of ropes, masts and sails. Suddenly the anchor is weighed and the sails starts unfurling; people are running around, performing mysterious tasks (pulling ropes, going below deck, coming up on deck, climbing the rigging, looking into the distant horizon) you don't understand. The ship starts moving. Slowly at first, but then faster. You think you see a pattern to all the activity, but then something unexpected happens and you realize that perhaps it wasn't as straightforward as you though. More sails are unfurling and the ship goes even faster, splitting the waves like an arrow. You grab the railing and you realize that no matter where this thing is going, it will be a wild ride and there will be plenty of things to see along the way.
Well, a bit like that anyway.


Here are my ideas for the questions I posed as discussion starters:

Personal situation?
It seems as if Weer is trapped in his own head in some way. I agree that the house he wanders around in is some sort of memory palace (a concept that also appears in several other fantasy novels, such as Little, Big, Katharine Kerr's Deverry series and Wolfe's own Soldier of Arete). There are two main reasons as to why he is trapped: the first is that he's suffered a stroke and the second is that he's dead and has become a ghost.
I think it's the second reason. There are several clues for this interpretation in the text but the strongest piece of evidence is that the book starts with "The Elm tree planted by Eleanor Bold, the judge's daughter, fell last night." and that later in the novel we hear that a woman who plants trees on people's graves wants to talk to Weer. The idea then would be that Weer is awakened from his grave when the tree on it fell and that this starts him to haunt his own memory palace. This is also the reason why he seems to tell us so many ghost stories.

Why are so few stories told to the end?
I think that _Peace_ is a story about finding closure, and peace with one's own life. Weer seems to be a man that has comitted several unspeakable acts in his life, acts that he never directly mentions but that seems to haunt the memories he recounts.
The reason why he don't retell the stories to their ends is that he cannot find peace and is himself unable to reach the end of his own story. He is trapped in reliving his life but is unable to reach its final destination.

How many people did Weer kill?
The two most obvious candidates are Bobby Black in his childhood, and then later on the librarian. There are also other candidates, such as factory worker who froze to death, his aunt Olivia and perhaps also Julius Smart, in order to take over the factory. It's of course difficult to tell, without rereading the book, but it's clear that Weer is hiding things.

Is Peace really a fantasy novel?
I must say that I probably wouldn't concider it a fantasy novel. While it technically could be seen as a fantasy novel, based on the idea that Weer is in fact dead, I still think it fit's better into the tradition of the ghost story and of the realistic, literary novel. I also think that it probably would have an easier time finding an audience among people who read Faulkner or M. R. James that among those who read epic fantasy.

The Orange Drink?
Well, I think I know the answer, but since it was my question, I'm awaiting more suggestions.

[Erfael]

Originally Posted by firqoret

The Orange Drink?
Well, I think I know the answer, but since it was my question, I'm awaiting more suggestions.

Oh, I'm nearly certain I know the answer, but haven't been saying anything in order to give others a chance....I don't like Eventine's answer.

[Eventine]

One strange thing about the orange drink is that it's made from potatoes - did anyone else notice that? I'm not sure if that helps with the naming.

I knew I was a bit short on options when I put together my list - Olivia and Julius are definitely candidates - like most of the others, evidence is not exactly abundant to indicate that a murder even took place. Not surprising considering it's Weer's recounting o the story, and he may not want to incriminate himself, or remember the things he'd (potentially) done.

[Katya]

Just got my second-hand copy, and I'm very disapointed - it's missing it's front cover and I never buy books that say that they are less than in "good" condition. Missing the front cover does not indicate "good" condition to me.

Looking forward to actually reading what's in it, though!

[AJ_]

I did not like this book. I'm suprised I even finished it. But it was a short book so I slogged my way through it anyways. It seemed like a mish-mash of pointless stories, and none of the stories had endings. I wouldn't classify it as fantasy.

So after reading this book and the Wizard Knight, I don't think I will be reading any more Gene Wolfe in the future.

[Katya]

I found that the most difficult thing about this book was that I had to commit to reading for at least half an hour. Any shorter amount of time, and I knew I would forget where I was and what story was being told.

I found that after Julius Smart came in to the picture, the book really picked up for me, much more interesting. I especially enjoyed his story about Mr. T.

I didn't even pick up on the fact that Weer had killed people, and I did notice that the stories never ended, but that didn't bother me. I guess I read it as a stream of conciousness novel, in which I didn't really expect it to go anywhere.

The drink? I want to say Orange Julius as well, but knowing what orange julius drinks are like... I just can't see it being that. That's a blender drink, and these drinks were sold by powder and frozen. I was thinking that it might be something like Sunny D, but who knows, really.

I wouldn't classify this as a fantasy novel, it touches on the supernatural (time travel?, ghosts, etc) but didn't seem like a fantasy novel in any other way.

I wasn't a huge fan of it, but I'm glad I finished the book.

[Gildor]

This wasn't a struggle to get through, yet it wasn't exactly the quickest book either, even with it's small size this took me about two weeks to finish. I thought it was a very good book, though i'm perplexed as to why it's in the fantasy masterwork series, perhaps it serves more as a window to other Wolfe books, but in response to one of the questions, I can't at all see how it would be viewed a 'fantasy' book.

Though when saying who it would appeal more to, i'd say you can only really appreciate it if you're aware of what and how Wolfe is trying to write, it certainly helps. It reads like a Wild West American Biography of sorts, so you'd think that would appeal more to a mainstream audience, yet i'm not sure it would, possibly because of being written someone considered to be a 'Fantasy' author.

Anyway, I just love how Wolfe writes, you get a weird relaxed feeling finishing one of his books, its totally different to any other.

Was it me, or did any one else not really like Weer? I found some of his actions to be quite nasty and spiteful, an instance of this is when he learns of his secretary dying, and gives a cold and nasty response, and there was something before that when he learns of Gold and his activities, and he sleeps with his 16 years old daughter!!!!! I mean, talk about taking advantage!

I'm sure i've answered some of the questions in there, but I think Peace was a difficult book to enjoy in the conventional sense, but well worth it at the end.

[beenorthern]

The last man on Earth wanders through his decaying house ...

If I thought that was really was happening, I'd have to call this science fiction, but it's more likely that the bizarre house represents Den's mind ... And if he really thought he was the last human alive, why would he bother writing a memoir?

The stories have no definitive ends ... because real life seldom wraps up in a tidy package ... because Den is a rather passive person -- a spectator of his own life ... because the world is ending, and that covers it all ...

How many people has he killed? No-one and EVERYONE! Death is the final peace ...

Den appears to travel back into his earlier self at various times (but especially when he visited the doctor) ... He says he's had a stroke and that everyone else is dead ... SF scenario, but no pseudo-scienfic explanation for his time-travelling mind is offered ... It's closer to fantasy and I'd call it Magic Realism. My guess is that most people who read only fantasy won't like this book ... It's much more likely to please those who read across genres, and especially those who prefer literary novels. *Peace* could easily have been released as a mainstream novel.

Since it has no linear progression, I skipped back and forth as I read *Peace*, but I think I read it all, and I certainly read some bits twice. While I did not particularly sympathize with the narrator (OK, we all waste our lives, but most of us enjoy it!) I found it very well-written. I think I'll probably return to this book in a few years' time.

The orange drink? TANG, of course.

[Jack]

I just thought it was phenomenal.

Of course, as is so often the case when I begin stumbling through the comments placed in the book club, I discover things about the text that seem bloody obvious to everyone else, but not to me. I found it pretty apparent that Weer played some role in the death of the boy at the beginning of the book, but I never considered he might have killed other people.

I don't really care... no, that's not the word. Okay, the "macro" concept of the story, the framing, i.e. Weer walking around in his house, was unimportant to me. I took such extreme delight in all of the side stories, particularly Julius's as other people have noted, that I just allowed them to stream into my mind and let my imagination take flight with the rest. I bought a signed first edition hc copy of the book (i am so cool) off of abebooks, and what I interpeted from reading the blurb is that the publishers didn't exactly know how to market the thing. By the tone of the blurb, it sounded like I'd be reading some kind of F. Scott Fitzgerald lite, without the alcohol but with a dash of Arthur Miller thrown in. About halfway through the book, I suddenly realized that, in my opinion, what I was reading was a horror novel. Truly the best term to give it is speculative, but if I had to pigeon hole it in one of the big three, I would call it horror. It was more Peter Straub's Ghost Story then it was John Crowley's Little, Big.

Just the tone, the feel, it felt so horrific! I have to agree with Erf's terse review (Yum), it was just a real delight to read at night tucked into the bed.

Thanks again, Wolfe.

[Yobmod]

End of the month and still haven't managed a reread of this, the book seems to have been left behind in my move
But I first read it last year, and thought it was exceptionally brilliant, and remains one of my all time favourites. The fragmented and slightly aimless plot was unimportant compared to the uniquely wierd tone of the book. I have never read a book that gives the resonant feeling when it is put down. For once i loved the 'real world' storyline as much as the nested fantasy stories.

- What is Weer's personal situation when he tells this story?

From the very beginning i thought of him as some kind of ghost/spirit, and the house is a kind of limbo, where he would remain until he was at peace or atoned for his sins or something.

- There are many stories told by various characters in Peace, but few, if any, seem to be told to the end. Why is this?

I have no idea, lol. I guess this could increase the air of mystery? Or leave the reader feeling un-nerved and out of place? Don't know.

- How many people has Weer killed?

I'm the opposite of Jack on this one, I wouldn't have been suprised to find Wer had killed all the mooted victims, but the only one i was sure of was the kid in the warehouse. Maybe because by this point there were too many instances of giving him the benifit of the doubt.

- Is Peace really a fantasy novel? Is it a novel that generally would appeal more to fantasy readers than mainstream readers?

I think of it as fantasy, but i have inclusive views on this, and i could certainly understand someon reaing it and thinking there was no fantasy byond the nested stories which doesn't count. I didn't think of it as horror, because it didn't feel as though it was trying to scare me, although it definately left a spooky feeling behind. (I made my flatmate read it, and he said 'it was OK, but i'm not as into all this existentialism as you are - plus it made no sense ' So mybe its a literary novel )

- Finally a question from Gene Wolfe himself: What is the name of the orange drink that Weer's factory produces? Remember that Julius Smart's orientalist wife Olivia named it.

No idea i'm afraid.

[Nic_C]

Kept forgetting to post here last month. Anyway, I enjoyed Peace immensely. I'm surprised to read that some people didn't think it was a fantasy - c'mon, the man has a house that remakes itself around him and regularly engages in conversations with people from his past!

The most interesting aspect of the book, for me, was the storytelling-within-storytelling (even - especially? - without endings...). I suppose Weer, with his memories remaking the past even as he recounts it, is not unlike the figure of the author shaping his characters' lives.

I blogged about this more fully here.