July 2008 BOTM: The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss

[Hobbit]

Discussion for this month is now open.

Just to get things started, this is what Rob said in the SFFWorld review (Link HERE):

The last few years have proven good for fantasy fiction from new voices, with writers like R. Scott Bakker, Scott Lynch, Hal Duncan, Alan Campbell, and Joe Abercrombie bursting onto the scene. This year THE book, debut or otherwise, is likely to be The Name of the Wind, by first time novelist Patrick Rothfuss. Rotfhuss does not spin the genre on its rear in the same way, he simply tells a wonderful, story of fantasy. When the publisher, Elizabeth Wollheim, uses as the cover of the advanced reading copy a letter proclaiming the book the best debut she’s read in thirty years, comparing Rothfuss to George R.R. Martin and Tad Williams, then you know you might be holding a special book in your hands. Rothfuss has crafted an incredible, rich and realistic story with this novel. Though The Name of the Wind is not a humorous novel, Rothfuss, like Scott Lynch, adds humor in the right doses and in the right spots. He doesn’t stray too far from the tropes of the genre, he embraces them, he makes them his own. That in itself is a cliché for many reviews, but it works for Rothfuss. As for some of the main ingredients for the book, what does it have? A young orphan? Check. A school of magic? Check. While it may sound familiar, Rothfuss doesn’t allow his story to rest on these ingredients. Like a master chef, he adds ingredients, both subtle and powerful, to create a delicious stew of his own creation. When this creation is pared back down to its bare bones, it is essentially the chronicle of a legend, from his happy beginnings with his family as a troupe of traveling entertainers swiftly ended by a band of marauders, to his life on the streets then to his time in the University where truly starts on his road to powerful, near mythical wizard.

Many of the things Rothfuss does are indeed subtle. The story starts rather typically – an innkeeper, Kote, tends to his customers in a comfortable setting. When a dark creature enters the inn and is destroyed by strange means, things come to be more clear. For one, the innkeeper is not an innkeeper at all, he is the legendary wizard Kvothe. Again, this is not an entirely new idea; hide your legend/protagonist in plain sight. After the first thirty to fifty pages of this impressive tome, Rothfuss is telling the reader things aren’t exactly what they seem and what lies under the surface is much more interesting than it would otherwise seem. Rotfhuss does a superb job of drawing the reader into the familiar and comfortable story, a familiar feeling story, until he changes gears and keeps the reader hooked in even more. He does this both in the focus of the story and the narrative voice, switching from third person omniscient to first person narrative, allowing the protagonist to tell his own story.

As Kvothe begins to reveal his life story, each detail is a spice that compliments the one which preceded it. As a part of a traveling group of mummers, young Kvothe took to the lute and music became an important foundation of his later life. Another important aspect of Kvothe’s life, and the novel itself, is the power of story. After all, the majority of this novel is told as a story by Kvothe to a historical chronicler. From the stories Kvothe recalls his father telling, to the stories and plays his family put on for eager crowds, entrancing an audience of either one (like a reader) to an audience of man many, factors powerfully. Also during these formative days does Kvothe gain a fascination and appreciation of Magic. Kvothe invites an elderly man named Abenthy (Ben), who shows hints of magic, the troupe encounters on their travels to join the troupe. It isn’t long before Kvothe soon effectively becomes the man’s apprentice. Ben tells Kvothe of the magic and great things he can learn at the University, and how Kvothe’s skill with the lute is one indicator of how much potential he might have at the University and with the craft of Magic. Kvothe cannot douse this flame of interest.

Like Rotfhuss’s shift in narrative voice early in the novel, Kvothe’s life soon shifts, though this is a major turn for the worse. His troupe has an encounter with a seemingly random group of marauders. Like the story itself, these marauders are more than they seem. Kvothe gets only a hint; his father was telling the wrong stories, stories about the mysterious people known as the Chandrian. Kvothe soon hitches a ride to Tarbeam, a sizeable city where he becomes a street urchin, living only by his wits and bare feet. Kvothe eventually leaves the streets and journeys to make his bid for entry in the University. Along the way, he falls in with a caravan where he meets a lovely, enchanting woman named Denna. He is faced with a hard decision when the caravan arrives at Imre, the young woman, Kvothe says goodbye to Denna and the scene is one of few that plays out a bit too clichéd.

Once in the University, Kvothe encounters several hurdles as he is introduced to scholarly life. The picture Rothfuss paints of the University, again, comes through not as a many-detailed thing, focusing on the minutia. The world comes through as part of the story, not something separate. Through Kvothe’s eyes, the University seems both a marvel and a thing of frustration, giving him a situation not unlike having your cake, but not being able to eat it. Or rather, running for miles before you can actually eat it. Here, Kvothe soon relies on the acting skills he learned when his parents were alive. More importantly; however, Kvothe’s skill and the knowledge of magic he gained under Ben more than gets him through his tough situations, these skills with magic are precisely what gains him entrance into the University. Some elements which may be considered "legendary" are played out in the University.

The structure of the book is something to be noted again. The majority of the story taking place at the University, Rotfhuss allows Kvothe to tell most of the story, providing for first person narrative. The brief interludes when Kvothe pauses his story and the novel returns to the third person omniscient, provide great hints of what is to come in Kvothe’s narrative. This switch in narrative voice is not unlike Matthew Stover’s Heroes Die, wherein the scenes when Hari is Caine in Overworld are first person, and the scenes of Hari in the "real world" are third person. Since the story is primarily told from the first person narrative, two other authors draw immediate comparison – Robin Hobb and Gene Wolfe. Both are writers who excel with such viewpoint narratives and moreso with Hobb do the similarities seem strongest. Like her Shaman’s Crossing, the elements of young men coming of together in a closed setting set the tone for The Name of the Wind. Rothfuss’s debut also has a feel similar to Hobb’s Assassin’s Apprentice, with the orphaned youth living in the shadows of "normal" life. Where Rotfhuss’s novel moves into Wolfe territory is the reliability of the narrator. Wolfe is widely known for his unreliable narrators. It may be too early in Rothfuss’s career to know how reliable his narrator, Kvothe, is, but this question cannot be forgotten when the protagonist/narrator was born into a family of actors and performers, and admits to using such skills throughout the narrative.

There are only a few nagging points about this otherwise impressive novel. At times, Kvothe just happens to have knowledge of everything. Whatever crosses his path, he seems to know something about it. While the novel is approximately 900 pages, only on one or two occasions does Rothfuss become too indulgent with the details. Otherwise, the story is just the right length, it is a story one does not want to end as Rothfuss does a wonderful job of immersing the reader in Kvothe’s world and with Kvothe.

Where will The Name of the Wind stand at year’s end and over the next few years in the genre? At least for this year, Rothfuss has set the bar very high for any other author publishing their first novel in 2007. As for where the book will stand in the years to come, it will likely stand as the start of one of the bright careers in fantasy fiction. Suffice it to say, the book is very good and has all the elements of greatness – characters with which the reader can empathize, a fascinating backdrop where these characters live, and the key ingredient: leaving the reader wanting for more. Since this is just the first book in a trilogy, that want will be met.

Mark / Hobbit

[Tomau]

O, goodie, first time book club

I think that I could have enjoyed this book much more if I wasn't so put of off Kvothe.
I just didn't like him and was frequently rooting for him to fail. It's just that he's so perfect, he can do no wrong in anything he does (except women), and that was just extremely annoying for me. I liked him pretty much before he came to the University, but since than he became so arrogant and self impressed that it was hurtful to read (it's interesting that adult Kvothe who is telling the story thinks so much of himself in his younger days but when asked to tell the story, he's so reluctant to do that, even though he obviously enjoys it – false modesty or something really hurt him bad in the past ...or future!?).
The ending with the draccus seemed completely out of place, like "oh, lets kill a dragon so I can be the greatest hero ever". And I don't think he's acting according to his age, or rather all the people around him don't regard him that way. He's 15, how intimidating can he be?! All of the story seemed to elevate Kvothe's grandness.
There're some things that I did enjoy, like writing style which very much agreed with me and the story about Chandrian was interesting, but it was so sparse that it almost seemed insignificant.
The best part of the book, for me, was when Elodin told him to jump of the roof, and he did it. It shows that he can be stupid and naive, that he is after all just a human and left me hoping for more (it certainly made me like Elodin much more).
IMO, there's a lot of similarity between this book and Harry Potter, that sometimes I've got the feeling I was reading Harry Potter and the University, or something like that.
His an orphan whose parents are killed by mighty magician or whatever he is (aka Voldemort) and he's set for revenge. But now, Harry/ Kvothe is improved version, being smarter and more perfect in every sense. And still there's all set of similar characters, but with different names: there is Ron (aka Sim) but now Kvothe got his red hair; though there is no Hermione, Kvothe has her brain, and Wil is somewhat similar to Hermione in being more serious and sensible one of his two friends. And still we have Malfoy (aka Ambrose) as his sworn enemy, Snape (aka Hemme) the teacher who dislikes him and in a way even Dumbledore (aka Elodin) as his corky mentor.
And for the record I do like Harry Potter but was disappointed with how the series ended or rather with the last book (and a little bit with book 5 and 6).
That said, I will pick up the next book, cause I think the story didn't even started yet and I think it can be a great one, once Kvothe gets over his puberty phase and grows up (me hope).

[BrightStar]

When I first read the synopsis of this book, I didn't have all that high hopes for it being that good. It sounded like it might be a "quest" book, or at worst, just a collection of random boastful tales from an flawless main character. The idea of reading about Kvothe's childhood, and his time at university didn't really appeal to me. If a story features a character's childhood, then it's usually cliche and full of predictable tragedies. If the main character spends any time at university, then he's likely to be a natural genius.

If I'd bothered to read up a bit more on the book before I'd brought it, I probably wouldn't have even bothered to buy it. It didn't sound very original at all, and I really only began reading it a few weeks back because I knew it was coming up for discussion here soon, and I figured I might as well start it and get it out the way.

It's nice to be proven wrong. The Name of the Wind is actually an odd book, because much of it almost seems very unoriginal. What works for me though is that I like Kvothe, and I do find him to be a very human character. Kvothe's constant struggle against poverty is what really, really works for me. The majority of his conflicts are not simply petty arrogance on his part, but arise from genuine threats. And this adds a sense of originality to a story arc that I've seen done many times before.

To me, Kvothe's story feels like the story of a real person, because it has such moments of sheer despair followed by the most unlikely glimmers of hope. When we begin Kvothe's story, we are told that he is a legend of sorts. I found it hard, at first, to really believe that the Kvothe that we meet at the beginning of the book is the legend that everyone has made of him. What I find so interesting now, as Kvothe reveals his story, is how truth became legend. How, for example, he became known as "Kvothe the bloodless". For me, as I've read through the book, I've fallen more and more into the belief that yes, this character could really have become a legend in his world.

What surprised me about this book is how much it's made me laugh out loud. To me, the interactions between characters, and the general misunderstandings that occur between humans is portrayed quite realistically.

One of my favorite scenes (like Tomau mentioned) was when Elodin told Kvothe to jump off the roof. And he did it.

I was so surprised by the outcome of that, because obvioulsy you realize "that was a stupid thing to do", but at the time it seemed like such a logical thing to do. Kvothe's narration of his story is such that his motivations, no matter how utterly bizzare and insane, always seem so totally reasonable at the time.

My only dissapointment with this book is in its size (big and heavy paperback which makes reading painful after any amount of time) and the fact that the next book isn't out until next year (I think?) and the third in the series not until a year after that. (Unless I'm wrong) It's good to know that the books are written (I think?) and that the release date is unlikely to change much, but I feel rather frustrated by how long I'm being told to wait. With a story like this, the less chance a reader has to forget the plot, the better and more likely they are to stick with the story.

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Last edited by BrightStar; July 1st, 2008 at 06:45 AM.

[Zedar]

I agree to a large extent with Tomau. I think I fell victim to the hype here, hearing about how this was a great novel etc. Then when I actually read the book, it was nothing special. It was well written definitely, I think I read it in about 4 days or so, but when I finished it I thought, "so what?"

It didn't really seem to go anywhere, and nothing much really seemed to happen. The whole Chandrian thing, which I gather is supposed to be the main storyline, never played a particularly prominent role, and was such a minor sideline I didn't even get interested when it did come to the front. Kvothe himself was likable enough, if rather irritatingly overconfident. His friends and teachers, however, didn't seem to exist except as obstacles or admirers for Kvothe, which could have been deliberate, since it was supposed to be about him, but at least a bit of depth might have been nice.

I'm being more critical here than I mean to be I think. I did enjoy the book while I was reading it, which is the important thing. However, I don't think I'll be picking up the sequel, as this one never hooked me and I don't particularly care what happens next.

[BrightStar]

I finished it about an hour ago.

The last hundred pages felt like a bit of a drag to me. The whole thing with the dracus just felt pointless, and was perhaps the first time in the entire book where I felt Kvothe's motivations were not as immediately logical as they had been previously. All in all, it was quite a lengthy chunk, and I'm struggling to see how it's going to have any relevance to anything else at all. It just felt out of place. A means for Kvothe to be heroic, though there never was any need to beat us over the head with the issue.

A minor niggle I have with the book as well is that sometimes it feels almost like the author is teasing me. Let's take, for example, the whole dracus scene:

I swear, I read that entire segment expecting a tragedy to happen. Now, don't get me wrong - I didn't WANT anything bad to happen to Denna because I like the relationshp between her and Kvothe and hope to see it develop further, but when Kvothe first mentions the dracus, I'm almost certain that he hints very strongly that something awful is going to happen to her. So she rather stupidly about manages to overdose herself, but in the end, nothing bad actually happens to her really. And I feel cheated by Kvothe because obviously, as the narrator of his story, he KNOWS this, but I swear he was leading me along and had me expecting that something terrible was going to happen.

And, that particular scene isn't the only incident where I've felt Kvothe has gone a bit too far with trying to make things sound more dramatic than they actually are. I felt that the technique made the writing seem a little less confident than it should be. Like the author feels that he needs to throw the reader little tidbits of information, or else they won't keep reading. I can almost here him saying sometimes: "You have to keep reading because of this really big, terrible event that's just waiting to happen."

I have the nagging worry that although book one was good, and I expect book two to also be enjoyable, book three might be a let down. The reason why I think this is because of the interludes of third person narrative. It almost leaves me feeling that there seems to be something going off in the present which will need to be cleared up before the series can come to a proper conclusion. I worry that book three will be too much in the "now" and not so much in the past anymore, and then perhaps there won't be all that much unique or different about the story. I find Rothfuss' first person narrative to be excellent, but his third is not of such high quality and I think anything more than a few chapters written with that point of view would spoil my enjoyment of the book.

[Eventine]

I also felt the dracus sub plot was an immense waste of time. I was really disappointed when the book didn't end with Kvothe being expelled from the university - it seemed the logical point at which to break up the story. Instead, we were left hanging at a strange point within the tale having just wasted a sizable chunk of the novel reading about a sub plot that did very little to advance the story. Too much of Rothfuss' effort seems to be around maintaining the status quo (i.e. poverty) around Kvothe to maintain tension, but in the end it just gets tiring. If the dracus sub plot had resolved in Kvothe actually having enough mony to stay in uni or live comfortably, I maybe could've accepted it. As it stands it seems to me to have been a very expensive (in terms of page count) way to give a character a drug addiction (which considering the character could've been done much more simply) and set us up for more episodes of Kvothe displaying his brilliance to win some last minute cash and remain at the university.

OK. Spleen vented. Let me continue. Perhaps part of the disappointment I've discussed above stems from the hype and buzz around this novel ( I use the term hype due to the cover letter included on the arcs of the novel - mentioned in Rob's review). I usually try and come at a book from an objective stance in these situations, but this novel, like The Lies of Locke Lamora or most other "Must Read Release of the Year" type books, simply can't live up to expectations. There were aspects to this story I really enjoyed - the story within the story and switch of viewpoints were well done, as was the exploration of the nature of legend. I found Kvothe little grating, but not to the extent some people here did. The real dampener for me was a sub plot that appears to have done very little to push th story along followed by a weak ending - I started to use the term cliff hanger there and then and realised it was inappropriate - the ending seems more to have been determined by some other arbitary means like page count.

One other thing I enjoyed towards the end:

The bar room fight scene where it looks like Kvothe tries to use magic and nothing happens. I'm really, really, really hoping that it means the Kvothe telling the story is making up a heap of BS - that would fit very well within the themes of the novel of story telling and legends.

So in summary: Good themes. Nice prose. Average protagonist. Dastardly sub plot and ending.

[Amaunette]

Originally Posted by Zedar

It didn't really seem to go anywhere, and nothing much really seemed to happen. The whole Chandrian thing, which I gather is supposed to be the main storyline, never played a particularly prominent role, and was such a minor sideline I didn't even get interested when it did come to the front.

I also wanted to hear much more about the Chandrian storyline, but you need to keep in mind that this is a trilogy. The Chandrian storyline is probably a major arc, and we're only getting the foundations of it in the first book. The point of the first book is to develop Kvothe's character, not to set up a 15(?)-year-old boy against an ancient crowd of bad guys. Without training, pitting Kvothe against the Chandrian right away would be laughable, and Kvothe himself notes that he has no chance. A lot of the things Kvothe does are motivated by finding out more about the Chandrian - the Chandrian menace is the catalyst underneath a lot of the bad things that happen to Kvothe (and sometimes more than just the catalyst).

Regarding the bar fight scene:

I think the reason Kvothe can't use magic is that he is becoming the guy he is pretending to be, a regular person. It's similar to the second Spiderman movie - you are what you repeatedly do, as many wise men have mentioned. I think Bast also implies that something happened to Kvothe to keep him from doing magic, but I can't remember what.

And lastly, the draccus sub plot, while largely uninteresting (and also motivated by Kvothe's curiosity about the Chandrian, I would note) is kind of necessary. Here you have an entire book about Kvothe becoming a great hero (or bad guy, depending on who you ask). But the story takes place in school, doing small scale things, and it needs to end with a bang. The draccus subplot was that manufactured ending.

It may be obvious from my defenses of the weak points of the novel, but I really enjoyed this book. I think it's been a few months since I read it, and I still think about it often. I am sort of disappointed that it's only a trilogy, because I think there's so much about the world that could be developed that we'll never get the chance to see.

[columbob]

Originally Posted by Tomau

And I don't think he's acting according to his age, or rather all the people around him don't regard him that way. He's 15, how intimidating can he be?!

Paul Atreides is 15 at the beginning of Dune. He's what, 18-19 by the end of the book when he becomes emperor of the galaxy. Pretty young too, huh?

Simon is around that age in Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, and while he is a dumb kid at the beginning (maybe a bit younger, 13 or 14), he comes of age quickly in a short time.

Kvothe lived for 3 years by himself on the streets of the city (from 12 to 15 years old). You need to grow up fast or you die.

These days, kids stay at home with their parents until their mid-20s, sometimes later. At other periods in time, you were almost an adult at 15. Indeed, women were frequently wed at that age.

So the age thing really didn't bother me at all. Kvothe is almost 16 by the end of the book, and if you remember what it was like at that age, with your whole life in front of you, you feel invincible.

As for how much he knows about drugs, remember that he studied plant lore with Ben and he works/studies in the Medica at the University, on top of his experiences living in the streets of the city. Why is it so hard to accept that he might know what to do? Especially since he's such a fast learner.


I don't think book 3 will be set in the characters' present. From what I heard, Rothfuss wants to write a second trilogy set in the present after Kvothe is done telling his story. Remember what he tells Chronicler at the beginning of the book: It will take 3 days to tell his story. Each book is a day in Kvothe's storytelling.

[Kazz Wylde]

I'm halfway through, and just wanted to post quick. I can see how Kvothe can irritate people. I guess I'm lucky that I didn't let him get under my skin too much. Alot of things move too quick with his brilliancy, no doubt. For instance, it only took him 3 days to make it into the Arcanum, which normally takes 3 terms! But, I also know for a fact that people have done things that others just don't believe, when they are actual facts. Because of the lack of time to read it's taking me awhile to get through this though.

[columbob]

Originally Posted by Kazz Wylde

For instance, it only took him 3 days to make it into the Arcanum, which normally takes 3 terms!

That's because he already knew all the theory and had some practice to boot. Remember that he spent weeks and months on the cart studying with a private tutor (Ben), and reading many books. Plus, he's a gifted student, and he actually wanted to learn from Ben, as opposed to a reluctant student who does assignments half-heartedly because he'd rather play video games.

[Kazz Wylde]

Originally Posted by columbob

That's because he already knew all the theory and had some practice to boot. Remember that he spent weeks and months on the cart studying with a private tutor (Ben), and reading many books. Plus, he's a gifted student, and he actually wanted to learn from Ben, as opposed to a reluctant student who does assignments half-heartedly because he'd rather play video games.

Yeah, Good point. I just think or wished it would have taken a "little" longer. But, Like you said he is very bright & committed to learning etc. And also he lost his whole family & friends, and he went through desperate times. What's the saying, "Necessity is the mother of invention"?
I understand people not liking Kuothe, but good God his parents were horribly murdered by what he knew only as mythological demons, (the Chandrian).
So, yeah I have some sympathy for him. He is intelligent, but also does pretty stupid things.....back to reading.

[BrightStar]

Originally Posted by columbob

As for how much he knows about drugs, remember that he studied plant lore with Ben and he works/studies in the Medica at the University, on top of his experiences living in the streets of the city. Why is it so hard to accept that he might know what to do? Especially since he's such a fast learner.

I guess that's a good point. I don't expect Kvothe to give an account of every single lesson he has had, but I think perhaps it would have been nice to have him tell us about some of the lessons he studied that turned out to be particularly useful to him later on in life.