Samuel R. Delany

[riotpoof]

Probably the best stylist in the genre. I find his works amazing and mindblowing. He is the one whose stories change you while you read them and leave you head full of thoughts.
Any fans?

P.S. I'm looking for Stars In My Pocket Like Grains Of Sand - is there someone who can show me a way to get this title?

RiotPoof... here we go, I don't know how old this link is

Seaside Books

[lemming]

I imagine most libraries would have that title. The Boston Public Library does, for sure... I know, because that's the particular copy I couldn't get through.

If you can stomach the guy, however, happy reading.

[riotpoof]

Thanks, guys!
dennizm, the link is cool - I propably will be bale to get the book from there. Thanks.
lemming, unfortunately the libraries here (Bulgaria) don't have other titles by Delany besides the translated ones :-(
Is the book really that hard reading?

[Huike]

Originally Posted by lemming

I imagine most libraries would have that title. The Boston Public Library does, for sure... I know, because that's the particular copy I couldn't get through.

If you can stomach the guy, however, happy reading.

Yeh, I've heard good and bad things about his work. Nova is a classic example of a book that, from what I'm told, many found very confusing. I still plan on reading it, though.

[Yobmod]

I've read Nova and Babel-17, both were good but i prefered the latter. Nova was too slight - just another space opera. Babel-17 had some really cool ideas. Reminded me of Harrison's Centauri Device and Light a bit.

I still have the Einstein intersection and Stars in my pocket... on my shelf. If they're up to scratch i'm looking forward to getting Dhalgren. The next books by Delany i actually wanted to read were the Neveryon books - but an evil E-bay seller ran off with my money

[Huike]

Originally Posted by Yobmod

I've read Nova and Babel-17, both were good but i prefered the latter. Nova was too slight - just another space opera. Babel-17 had some really cool ideas. Reminded me of Harrison's Centauri Device and Light a bit.

I still have the Einstein intersection and Stars in my pocket... on my shelf. If they're up to scratch i'm looking forward to getting Dhalgren. The next books by Delany i actually wanted to read were the Neveryon books - but an evil E-bay seller ran off with my money

Damn E-bayians!

But seriously, that sucks. I tend to use Amazon which I think is a lot more trustworthy. You didn't lose too much did you?

[FicusFan]

Don't know if you can order books on-line, but Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand has recently been re-published in the US. It is a trade paperback. It came out Jan. 1 2005. Amazon.com

you might be able to order if from Amazon.uk. Or you can try to find it used, for a cheaper price. Good Luck

[ArthurFrayn]

Check out "The Starpit" if you can. It's short but it's one of my favorite of his pre Dhalgren works. Great story about accepting limitations.
I know it was released as part of a Tor double with John Varley's Tango Charlie and Foxtrot Romeo, and it's in the Delaney anthology of short work. Check Amazon used if'n yer interested.

[FicusFan]

Originally Posted by ArthurFrayn

Check out "The Starpit" if you can. It's short but it's one of my favorite of his pre Dhalgren works. Great story about accepting limitations.
I know it was released as part of a Tor double with John Varley's Tango Charlie and Foxtrot Romeo, and it's in the Delaney anthology of short work. Check Amazon used if'n yer interested.

It is in the Delany Collection called Driftglass

His non-genre stuff is very good too. My favorites are Atlantis: Three Tales and his autobiography which covers his life up to sometime in the 70s I think The Motion of Light in Water: Sex and Science Fiction Writing in the East Village .

[Yobmod]

Damn E-bayians!

But seriously, that sucks. I tend to use Amazon which I think is a lot more trustworthy. You didn't lose too much did you?

Only £10. Could have them for about the same price of amazon marketplace, but went for the ebay option cos they were all in a matching set and amazon only lets you buy them individually (with £2.75 p&p each!)
I'll have to wait til i actually have a job before i splash out on any more books, plus i'm getting quite worried about moving out of my flat at the end of the year - too many books i want to keep, and no room

[tdeanatoz@yahoo]

I first read "Dhalgren" when I was a teenager. I think my negative feelings about it at that time had a lot to do with the fact that I did not really understand it. When I re-read it 20 years later, it blew me away. I think it is the finest science fiction novel ever. For people who are planning to read it, I would certainly recommend getting the recent trade paperback that has a great introduction by William Gibson. He talks about how the mystery of "Dhalgren" was not meant to be explained: (paraphrasing from memory) "I have never understood it. I have sometimes felt that I was on the verge of understanding it. This has never caused me the slightest discomfort, or caused me to stop enjoying the text. If anything, the reverse is true."

[Mugwump]

The issue I have with Delany is that whilst he regularly explores sophisticated and intellectually challenging concepts, he does so in the most plodding, brain numbing fashion imaginable.

Take Babel-17 for example. At the heart of this tale is a twisted amplification of the old maxim, “The pen is mightier than the sword”.

Set against a backdrop of war, our protagonist is surrounded by myriad lethal, devastating and cruel weapons. Of them all, none are more dangerous than Babel-17: a language. The irony here is almost tangible. What is war but the absence of communication via language? Opponents who are talking to each other invariably aren’t fighting each other.

In Babel-17, Delany cleverly turns this idea on its head by making language a means of killing in itself.

THAT’S the good part. The problem is his method of conveyance.

Choose any “good” book and at its heart you’ll find a kernel of themes and motifs that reflect the philosophy of the author. Taken on their own, these themes and motifs are interesting to ponder, but you can’t fill a novel with them (unless, perhaps your name is Olaf Stapledon). It would just be too dull. To breathe life into things, to get the author’s message off the pages and into the mind of the reader we need a conveyance – characters, plot, a dash of scenery and drama. In this writer’s mind a good conveyance must be two things: functional (it has to deliver the author’s message) and compelling (it has to covet the reader). Just as the august appeal of a Roman Emperor would be dulled if he were delivered to his throne on the back of a donkey, so the appeal of an author's message, no matter how intelligent, is dulled on the back of a unappealing story.

I’ve emphasised the word drama in the paragraph above because I feel it is in this area that Delany is fatally compromised. Compromised because he has no concept of it.

Other than some dimly remembered shenanigans concerning a busted space drive (or perhaps a loss of navigation function?), I can’t recall a single dramatically compelling act in Babel-17. The stream of events that took the complex Rydra Wong (I had to look that name up, despite reading the novel less than six months ago) from the port city to the battleship Chronus are almost entirely lost to me. Delany’s conveyance successfully delivers the message, but it’s on the back of not just an ass, but a dead one.

Nova is the same: emotionally complex characters conspire to engage themselves in one of the dullest tales ever to suffocate this reader. I recall something important happening in the vicinity of an exploding star. What it was, I don’t know. I doubt I’ll ever know since I no longer have the patience or perseverance to row through Delany’s treacle. As for Dhalgren: I threw the oars away, thrust my hand in the air and started waving the white handkerchief in submission no more than six feet from the riverbank.

And that’s what makes Delany so damnably frustrating. The ideas are there, the writing is there – but the drama, the stories aren’t. Why this is the case, I don’t know. Perhaps he’s one of those truly pretentious authors who believe that all drama is melodrama and therefore it should be expunged. Or perhaps he simply doesn’t know how to write it. All I do know is that if Delany had written Star Wars it would be the smartest piece of Science Fiction ever filmed. And it would not have made a penny.

[Huike]

Originally Posted by Yobmod

Only £10. Could have them for about the same price of amazon marketplace, but went for the ebay option cos they were all in a matching set and amazon only lets you buy them individually (with £2.75 p&p each!)
I'll have to wait til i actually have a job before i splash out on any more books, plus i'm getting quite worried about moving out of my flat at the end of the year - too many books i want to keep, and no room

Stack them in the kitchen if you have to

[FicusFan]

I agree Dhalgren is fabulous. I loved it since I first read it back in 76 or 77 and have read it repeatedly since then. It is packed with incredible characters, wonderful if unexplained settings and lots of drama. Because it can be a very tough book to read, and not everyone can do so, I always try to warn people. You need to take a relaxed approach to reality, the idea of a linear story progression, and comprehension.

In searching Amazon the other day for the correct spelling of Driftglass (one word or two), I found that SRD had a new book of fiction published in 10/04. It is short and not really genre, though it deals with myth and has an ancient setting. (warning: Like most of his more mature work it is supposedly very homo-erotic.) It is called Phallos . I have ordered it. The lone review ends with this quote:

"Highly recommended reading for anyone who would like to see the convoluted plots of Eco alloyed with the erudition and linguistic splendor of Borges."

He is long past what he wrote in his earlier books when he was in his teens and early twenties, some of which I didn't enjoy either. But he has written a lot of books. They show a progression in his style and content, and if you look through them you may find something that works for you.