LORD FOUL'S BANE - Discussion opens 1 November

[Rob B]

I'll keep this topic closed until 1 November rolls around then one of the admins will open it so the discussions can begin.

[Sammie]

Am reasonably sure it's the 1st in most places now......so here you go folks!

I can't get the ball rolling....cos I've barely started it...but feel free to go for it....

For now, at least, can people please go with FF's suggestion, and start each post by naming the chapter (or page number) that they have reached/are discussing.

Enjoy

Sammie.

(have terrible urge to break bottle of champagne over the thread, and christen it as our first fantasy Book Club discussion )

[ezchaos]

I finished the book about a week ago, so I won't start with any spoilers and I'll try to stick to the beginning of the book first.

Would people actually be as cruel to a leper as they are in the town the Thomas Convenant lives in? Maybe so since leprosy isn't that common of a disease in most parts of the world. There'd be massive ignorance about it. I can fully understand why TC acts the way he does, what with his wife and child up and leaving him and the towns people totally outcasting him. It's a constant struggle for him to keep on living day-to-day, although I think the want to live is stronger in him. Throughout the book he hints at wanting to kill himself, but he never quite goes through with it.

Also, what's up with the mysterious beggar?

[Holbrook]

Hmmm. I first read this book when it first came out '77 '78. That would be pre AIDs or rather pre the common knowledge of that illness.

Re-reading the first section it struck me how very alike is the town's, and Convenant's wife's reaction to leprosy is the same as many folk's reaction to AID's

The panic, the "unclean" "lock him away" it is there in the book. And having lived through the stupidity that flamed in the press and public awareness concerning folks with AID's .It makes the passages about Covenant's attitude to his illness far more understandable. Or could it be that I am 25 years older, a little wiser and more cyinical about the world..

[helenf]

I can see that happening anywhere where there's children (always cruel) or closeminded people - pretty much anywhere then. There's always ignorance, and that's what causes people to be so cruel and seemingly unable to think about how the person in question is thinking.

The unbearable loneliness such cruelty causes must be near impossible to bear - and that has to be in part or almost wholly, why TC behaves as he does.

[DarthV]

*sigh* ~~~Cadfael~~~

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ezchaos:

I find how much the temptation of power torments TC is the main, at least towards the end, part of this book. Power & potency = a cruel death for a leper. Awesome book!

[saintjon]

I read this book about six months ago.

The big thing as I was reading the beginning was that I was totally taken unawares by the in-depth description of leprosy, and it's consequences. That coupled with the titling of the chapter, "You shall not hope" was an instant clue that I was into some totally new territory.

I found it fascinating to tell people about the leprosy descriptions in the first chapter and then watch them lose interest as soon as they found out that it was a fantasy story.

Also, the damning reality of the disease, that they who need the most compassion will recieve the least, is such a perfect illustration of the overall crumminess of life. I used to feel that way in self-pity, but I had nothing on a leper.

[Nimea]

The first thing that struck me was the leprosy, the details about the illness and the reactions. TC was characterized very well, I think.

The second thing was the language. I was impressed and more than the character and the story it was the language that just pulled me into the book and into the story. It is not really easy to read and so I am only in chapter 14 'The council of Lords' - but it is a plessure to read it.

Hard to explain. I still can't say how much I will like the book, and it will not be one of my absolute favorites - yet it is really good.

I also like the Land. What and how Donaldson describes this strange world, its inhabitants, its history . . .
The idea of the character of Covenant is very interesting, problem is only I don't know what to think of him. Well, yeah, that is something fascinating and good, but for a book I love I need to have a connection with the character . . .

Mmh, ramblings late at night. Need sleep. Need to read. Which thing first?

*schnarch*

[Hereford Eye]

First half of book: On the second read after 25 years, I can see more the reasons for TC's behavior but I cannot fathom his refusal to learn. Donaldson doesn't help us understand why when weeks go by and things happen TC remains locked in his defensive cocoon. He is not a leper in the land and he knows it; he simply refuses to deal with it. aaaaaargh!
But the language!!!! How many of us have the courage to write threnody or lornly? The man loves the language and delights in its roads less travelled.

[Lani]

I am on Chapter 14 as well.

I think this is a pretty original book. Even though the idea of going in some fantasy land etc. is far from being original, but I think it is the main character that makes up for everything in the book.

For one this is the first book I read, where the main character is not very talented in some way from beginning. He is not extremely handsome, smart, charming, honest, or skillful. Quite the opposite, I'd say for some of those.

I never knew much about leprosy, but I think this book gave some interesting insights on it. What is more interesting, I think this is the first time I meet the main character in a fantasy book that starts out with an incurable disease.

One thing Donaldson seems to do is to throw me off all the time. Often once several chapters are down, I make some kind of opinion on the character that stays with him throughout the book, but here TC keeps doing something that totally changes my opinions of him. Sometimes it is pretty hard to even feel pity for his mental condition, sometimes he seems like a person to be respected for what he does. It is not that I expect him to be black and white, but he keeps changing the shades of gray, and changing them alot.

One thing I could not understand is now easily he lets himself off after he rapes Lena. Yeah, at first he is sickened, but then two days pass and there is no show of his guilt whatsoever, he just erases it or something. It does not bother him in any other way then the result of Atiaran's hostility and Lena was a person who basically cured him of leprosy.

But...

In chapter one... we heard how much Covenant had to forget what life was like before... for the rest of his life... he would have to go to sleep as a leper, wake up as a leper.. never for one moment to forget he was a leper. It was the only way he could survive... and he had decided to survive!!!

We first meet him in the act of refusing to die... or go away... he is determined to pay his phone bill, and not let the town 'shut him out'. he has decided how 'he can live' with his illness. Covenant has been through hell.. but he is getting better

Then all that is turned upon its head when he gets to The Land... the very thing that can kill him in our world... cures him in The Land.. ie. dirt= hurtloam, and that is only one example. He is being seduced into beliving he is healthy.. he just spent the last 6 months reconciling himself to the fact he will never be healthy again in his life... every waking minute will be a fight to live.

He CANNOT belive The Land is real... to do so will kill him when he 'comes out of his coma'.. he cannot be seduced into letting his regiem of survival slide.

Also... in reconciling himself to his illness.. he went to the edge of madness, but drew back at the edge... now he is in a strange new world, new rules.. and he is cured. He is convinced he has finally gone over the edge.

[ezchaos]

One thing that drove me crazy throughout the book was how very few of the people that TC met in the Land really made any attempt at learning about the world TC came from (I won't mention the ones that did). Everybody kept saying he was 'closed' to them, so maybe that was the problem.

If a person suddenly arrives from another world and you thought he was your world's savior, wouldn't you still want to know about the world he came from? If more of the people from the Land had tried to learn more about TC's world, maybe they would have figured out why he acted the way he did. Instead they seemed to be totally focused on his ring and the message he bore. They expected him to be an 'instant hero' which he wasn't.

[Nimea]

(I have not read any further yet . . .)

I agree with Cadfael. And that is one of the fascinating things about the book.
But I also agree with Lani about the rape, no matter if he wants to believe he is just dreaming. The rape and everything did not get me furious or something, but that was one thing I hate(d) TC for, even if I feel pity for him.

And ezchaos points out an interesting thing there. I wondered about it, too. But those inhabitants are very different, so . . . it does not feel really wrong. Mmh . . .

Well, maybe part of my opinion will change while reading on.

Being happy about this discussion and the book club . . . Hoping that it will keep on being so interesting.

[saintjon]

Well, I find the Land to be more interesting to read about that Covenant himself. It's his reactions to the Land that make it a great story.

I was especially drawn in by the importance of beauty to the theme of the book. As ambiguous as he is about its effects on him, Covenant loves the Land I think. As much as he feels the need to disbelieve it, I think deep down at all times he wishes he could believe it were real. But he cannot hope.

So as much as he convinces himself that he's just going to play it cool and go along with the Land, some of his actions indicate that he has a more deeper involvement with his surroundings than that, whether he's willing to admit it or not. (I want to go into detail but don't want to put up a bunch of spoilers and clutter the thread for those who aren't finished yet)

[Rob B]

I read it originally about 4 or 5 years ago....

Up to about the 150 or so page mark in the US MM paperback now...

I do remember the vivid descriptions of leprosy...after all Donaldson's father did have extensive experience with lepers.

Some things I forgot though were the traveling scenes with Lena's mother (name escapes me now...put the book down a few weeks ago to wait until 1 November got closer). Damn that woman has resolve, she is almost as conflicted and torn a character as Covenant, if not moreso.

Also, Saltheart...it is great to 'see' him again.