BONE DOLLs TWIN - JUNE SFFWBC Book

[Eventine]

OK, Now that it's june (at least in Australia) I thought I'd kick off this months discussion (sorry mods if I've stepped in here).

I'm about halfway through the book at the moment, and I'm enjoying it more and more as the book goes on.

I've heard a few comments that people read the first chapter or so and didn't get into. I didn't find that. I'm not sure why - maybe because of the interesting premise of the story.

So far, I'm sort of reminded of the movie The Others. I know this sounds weird, but in that movie you know the kids are going to be OK (it's an American movie, bad things don't happen to kids), but you can't help but think something bad's going to happen anyway.

Same sort of thing here - because of the introduction, we know everything is going to turn out OK, but in the meantime I'm stuck waiting for something bad to happen. Both have strong supernatural elements, a creepy house and a weird kid as well, which never helps on the creepiness factor.

I'll keep reading and see how the story (and the discussion)progresses.

[Erfael]

Shouldn't have to do this, but just in case: SPOILER WARNING IF YOU HAVEN'T ABSOLUTELY FINISHED THE BOOK.







Okay, again, I liked this one, too. I have a complaint about it, though.

I feel super-deceived.


My copy of the book mentions nowhere that this is a first book of a series. Thinking further, I wouldn't even call it a first book in a series. In a series, most books reach some sort of closure at the end, even if they then go on to other books. There is no mention on either cover or anywhere in between that there will be other books to accompany this one.

In addition to that, Arkoniel's prologue to the first part sets up the assumption that we will be exploring in this book the both the dark center to the pearl and the resulting good things that came of their dark act. The ending is a complete cliffhanger, again without even a "To be continued...." sitting there at the bottom. There wasn't even a building conflict of any sort, inner or outer. I suppose we have moved to some sort of discovery by Tobin that she is a girl, but without even considering some of Tobin's thoughts on the matter and having her come to some sort of either inner peace or denial or something of the sort, I just feel like I've spent 500 pages coming to nothing.

I also thought Tobin was a fairly shallow character throughout. I guess the argument could be made that it is the wizard's story, but in spending so much time with Tobin, I don't feel that veryt much was fleshed out as far as her growth. There is her liking of dolls and her "strange" attraction to Ki, but even these things are never really explored other than Tobin doesn't want to kiss girls or want anyone to know about his doll because Daddy said warriors don't have dolls, even though he gave me the equivalent of a doll house city.

I actually liked the first part of the book the most. I thought the wizards were well-portrayed and fairly convincing. The general tone of the first part was, I agree with Eventine, very much a haunted house, haunted child type of feel that I thought was well-written. As we moved through the book all of that disappeared--granted, Tobin came to grips with the presence of brother, but the book got a lot less convincing to me after that. Once Brother got to be pretty much harmless, much of the dark center to that pearl disappeared for me.

Okay. Stopping now. Will came back later with things I did like about the book. Erf.

[Rob B]

OK, I've got about 50 or so pages left and I am really enjoying the book.

This is the first book I've read by Flewelling, but I don't think it will be the last. I like the relationship between Ki and Tobin.

I think Flewelling did a fine job of presenting the Wizards. They weren't all powerful like in other novels, but they were held in high regard and respect.

I'll post more tomorrow after I finish it, but I'll just add that the book is living up to my expectations

feel super-deceived.




My copy of the book mentions nowhere that this is a first book of a series.

Initially, I didn't know it was a series, either.

[FicusFan]

I loved the book, but also felt cheated.

Not because of the series issue: I just expected it to be part of one. I was pissed that it wasn't another book in the last series.
I really loved the two main characters in the Nightrunner's Trilogy (Luck in the Shadows, Stalking Darkness, Traitor's Moon)and wanted to read more about them. BDT came out in 2001 and it has been sitting on my shelf since then because I was not ready to give them up until now. The world of BDT is an earlier period and history of the same lands in the other trilogy, so there is a small connection.

Even though I have read her stuff before and know I will love her new stuff, I had to slog through the start of the book. I think she dumps too much background and history at the start. I am looking for the story to start and characters that I can care about. It was close to page 200 before that happened. The two wizards were just placeholders to set up the story of Tobin and the awful deed and its consequences. I did like them more later in the book when they were worked into Tobin's tale, but they bored me before that. Their journey, and background and the 'bowl' are all irrelevant to the story in book 1.

I really liked Tobin, and thought it was interesting to watch him develop, and try to learn about all the mysteries in his life. I felt so sad for him because he was used by everyone and nobody told him the truth. I liked the servants in the castle and the bond they formed with Tobin. I also liked Ki when he was introduced, and the father's second in command (forget his name). I thought brother was interesting, and liked it when he became visible. I was glad that brother was not used to be some evil being that tries to destroy Tobin (at least in this book). I thought the crazy mother and the haunted father were well done too.

I thougth the remote castle and how they let it rundown was realisitic for people trying to hide him, and dealing with the guilt of the secret. I liked that his father ended up suffering for it, even though at the start all he thinks of is his ambition.

The trip to the capital was good movement for the story. I liked how things were set-up and worked out for Tobin to be integrated into the prince's band. The conflicts with his new 'guardian' and Ki's problems were also well done.

I didn't mind the cliff-hanger, but I thought that Tobin learning who s/he really is, was much too sudden, and it seemed to me that s/he assimilated it much too quickly and easily. Now there may be more angst on that issue in the second book, but right now it doesn't ring true. Especially since s/he is awol from the court and whatever his/her state of mind s/he is going to have to go back right away and pretend everything is ok. I would think news that momentus, and that those who supposedly loved you and you trusted had lied and betrayed you would deserve much more drama and time to unfold everything.

I thought the witch was interesting and the whole idea that the crime had been decreed by one of their gods. Was it a crime, because of what they did, or was the crime that they let the boy-child breathe and his soul enter his body ? It puts a whole new spin on Abraham and Isaac. I am also sure the LF will work more with the gender issues that she has raised with Tobin in the next books.

All in all I can't wait for July when book 2 comes out.

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by Eventine
So far, I'm sort of reminded of the movie The Others. I know this sounds weird, but in that movie you know the kids are going to be OK (it's an American movie, bad things don't happen to kids), but you can't help but think something bad's going to happen anyway.

In the movie 'The Other' that I remember, one twin has murdered the other, and hallucinates that the dead one is still around throughout the movie. Not sure how this equates to 'nothing bad will happen to the children'. Unless there are two movies with a similar name or a more positive remake ? I saw The Other on TV in the 70's.

[Erfael]

FicusFan, I think Eventine is referring to the movie The Others with Nicole Kidman, which was made 2 or 3 years ago where there is a family consisting of a mother and two children living in a haunted house, primarily haunted by a young boy ghost. A very interesting movie. I would reccommend you check it out. Erf.

[DarthV]

Overall I did like the book, but like others I really disliked the cliffhanger ending. With the book only coming in at about 520pages, why not go a little further and get some more of the plot line done?? I did find that the book did drag at times, but I really liked the world she built.

So I'm guessing the next volume will be centered more on how Tobin will find support and build an army ?

[Nevyn]

I love this book ! I have about 100 pages to go so I'll be back when finished .

[Rob B]

OK finished it last night.

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I didn't think the ending was too much of a cliffhanger. Sure what happened to Ki was unresolved and not really known, but the resolution of Tobin's true sexual identity was, I think, the proper way to end the first of this trilogy.

I didn't think the initial part of the book was a drag, per say, but I would have liked to learn a bit more about Rhius and Ariani's backstory. I understand it was primarily Tobin (and Ki)'s story, but it was the only area I felt the overall story was lacking.

One thing I like about this series, so far, is that we all know how it will end. We know Tamir will wind up becoming the Queen, and to a lesser extent, it was pretty obvious how this installment would end. As soon as I read Lhel's proclomation about the blood, that sealed the deal, for me.

I think its somewhat refreshing that the ending is know, the author doesn't have to really play around with a mystery aspect of whether or not the hero/heroine will succeed. By knowing the destination of the story's journey, I think Flewelling can explore more interesting aspects of the story.

I think Tharin was a great character, but I was a bit surprised how readily he admitted to bedding, in a carnal sense, with Rhius. It didn't offend me, and his openess about was good, too.

Originally posted by FicusFan:
and it seemed to me that s/he assimilated it much too quickly and easily.

I agree. I think that is my most obvious complaint in an otherwise great story. It was the only part of the story that I couldn't really look past the whole suspension of disbelief. Tobin accepted his/her true sexuality too easily, just kind of shrugged, yelled a bit and went on. Perhaps Flewelling will explore this in more depth in Hidden Warrior.

All things being equal, though, I really enjoyed the novel. It had some ghost/horror elements, the right amount of magic and wizards, the doses of court intrigue/politics at the end and very very good characters and relationships between characters. Flewelling is an author I am glad to add to the list of authors I want to read.

[Nimea]

Eventine, your comment about kids in Hollywood movies is quite right – yet, * * * SPOILER FOR THE MOVIE "THE OTHERS"! BEWARE! * * * the kids in The Others were murdered, so . . . ***SPOILER ENDED***

About Bone Doll’s Twin:
The first chapter was indeed something hard for me to get in. I don’t really remember why, but the story’s premise just got me going, I thought it an intriguing plot idea.
And then suddenly I was sucked in and couldn’t get out again.

And yeah, the story really is creepy in parts. I thought that the whole scenery was wonderfully set and Tobin was a fabulously written child. I felt so sorry for him/her. You just knew that at some time the conflict would come between being a boy or a girl and yet it kind of became a normal childhood.

Overall, I feel like Fitz about the book. The hints about what the end will be like makes this story even more interesting for me.
Did not mind the cliffhanger at all - that end even made me await the next installment more.
What I don't think is, that Tobin's reaction was dealt with too quickly. It clearly was a shock and at that very moment to go deeper into Tobin's reaction and feelings would have made the book unnecessary long. This will be clearly dealt with in the next book.
(I read a lot of reviews of the book before I bought it, so I already had realized that it was first in a series )

And yeah, the gender issues will hopefully be inspected more during the next novels.

Yet, there are already some things to discuss in this book:
for example Tobin wanting a doll. Heh? Is that a clear sign for being a girl?
Being myself a girl and having never wished for a doll, I can't really say so.
What do you all think about that? Or was it more like Tobin wanting one because of his/her mother?

Or Tobin and his/her relation to Ki. There were some suptle hints, yet . . . or Tobin being uneasy with girls.
Interesting question will be, how will Tobin deal with that? Or will there be some confusion on her side? What if Ki is really dead - ehm, yeah, I am not so sure there. And right now, I can't read it again, for I lend the book to a friend.

Another thing: I enjoyed - as you can guess - BDT extremely. But still I am somewhat reluctant to try Fkewelling's other trilogy.
Can someone give me one more nudge there? FicusFan?

[Rob B]

Originally posted by Nimea
And yeah, the story really is creepy in parts. I thought that the whole scenery was wonderfully set and Tobin was a fabulously written child. I felt so sorry for him/her. You just knew that at some time the conflict would come between being a boy or a girl and yet it kind of became a normal childhood.

Yes, I really did like the presentation of the dark tower in which Tobin's mother killed herself. A very haunted part of thier abode, and so close. Tobin's natural curiosity about the tower and the tension Flewelling presented were just right.

Originally posted by Nimea
Yet, there are already some things to discuss in this book:
for example Tobin wanting a doll. Heh? Is that a clear sign for being a girl?
Being myself a girl and having never wished for a doll, I can't really say so.
What do you all think about that? Or was it more like Tobin wanting one because of his/her mother?

I think the want of the doll was, yes, because of his/her mother. I also think it was a none-too-subtle hint at Tobin's true gender. I just took the whole doll thing as an illustration of what a typical girl of that age would want.

Originally posted by Nimea
Or Tobin and his/her relation to Ki. There were some suptle hints, yet . . . or Tobin being uneasy with girls.
Interesting question will be, how will Tobin deal with that? Or will there be some confusion on her side? What if Ki is really dead - ehm, yeah, I am not so sure there.

I think Ki may be dead (or seriously maimed), unfortunately. The way Arkoniel was greiving, in the brief glimpse, leads me to believe this. I hope it isn't the case, but I could see it as a way for Tobin to have Morin as a squire, throwing more complications into the potential court intrigue.

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by Erfael
FicusFan, I think Eventine is referring to the movie The Others with Nicole Kidman, which was made 2 or 3 years ago where there is a family consisting of a mother and two children living in a haunted house, primarily haunted by a young boy ghost. A very interesting movie. I would reccommend you check it out. Erf.

Oh thanks. I do remember seeing the ads on TV for it (NK in a long gown), but I never got the name of the movie. It didn't appeal to me from the ads, and I only go to one or maybe two movies a year so I missed it.

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by Fitz
One thing I like about this series, so far, is that we all know how it will end. We know Tamir will wind up becoming the Queen, and to a lesser extent, it was pretty obvious how this installment would end. As soon as I read Lhel's proclomation about the blood, that sealed the deal, for me.

I think its somewhat refreshing that the ending is know, the author doesn't have to really play around with a mystery aspect of whether or not the hero/heroine will succeed. By knowing the destination of the story's journey, I think Flewelling can explore more interesting aspects of the story.

There is no mystery about what happens because the tale has already been told, albeit very, very briefly - 1 maybe 2 paragraphs. The story of Queen Tamir the Second is part of the first book, Luck in the Shadows, in the Nightrunners trilogy (page 163).

I agree she can explore other matters, but she had already let the cat out of the bag and it would have seemed silly to pretend otherwise in this book.


I knew the blood referred to when she started her period, but I didn't expect that the first 'Tobin' would be basically killed and a replacement 'Tobin' would be pushed in his place so quickly. We took most of the first book getting to know him, and sharing his inner world. I just felt cheated that it was done so quickly and so soon.

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by Nimea

About Bone Doll’s Twin:
Yet, there are already some things to discuss in this book:
for example Tobin wanting a doll. Heh? Is that a clear sign for being a girl? Being myself a girl and having never wished for a doll, I can't really say so. What do you all think about that? Or was it more like Tobin wanting one because of his/her mother?

I took that to be a reaction he had because of the the doll his mother had. She made lots of them, but always carried one specific one with her. It was the doll that Tobin ended up with after her death.

I think Tobin was drawn to it because we found out later that his mother dug up his brother's dead body from under the oak. She defleshed it (remember the rotten smell in the upper rooms that Tobin's nurse smelt). Then she took the dead child's bones broke them up and sewed them into the doll. Tobin was connected to brother spiritually and I think the physical aspect of the bones also called to him- but he didn't know it was the bones and not the doll. Later when he was checking out other dolls, because of the feelings he had for those of his mother, his father's reaction made dolls a thrill, a thing of shame and of guilt. Just the right stuff to start a fascination in Tobin's mind.

There may have also been some 'girlyness' guiding him (though his female gene donors were warriors and sometimes mad murderers), but not all girls like dolls. I think LF did a good job developing the story and Tobin enough so that it could be either or both or somethig else that is the reason behind his being drawn to dolls.

Originally posted by Nimea
Or Tobin and his/her relation to Ki. There were some suptle hints, yet . . . or Tobin being uneasy with girls.

Again I think that both are probably explainable because of the age Tobin is at for a boy, and because he is really a girl. Most kids tend to hang out with their own sex (before puberty), and often dislike the other sex. He also could have been developing into a gay man -- now wouldn't that be confusing .

He also could have been moved by his female feelings, because he does start his period very soon after they meet, so his inner girl is closer to puberty, than the outer boy ???

LF sets things up and tells the story which seems simple, but is actually pretty convoluted.

Originally posted by Nimea
Interesting question will be, how will Tobin deal with that? Or will there be some confusion on her side? What if Ki is really dead - ehm, yeah, I am not so sure there. And right now, I can't read it again, for I lend the book to a friend.

I hope Ki doesn't die that would suck. I am sure s/he will have a hard time figuring out his/her feelings for a lot of things and people in book 2. I wonder if they will tell Ki (if he lives) or if he will be kept in the dark. Then it will seem that two boys are close and getting closer. The Fantasy version of Victor/Victoria

[FicusFan]

Originally posted by Nimea
Another thing: I enjoyed - as you can guess - BDT extremely. But still I am somewhat reluctant to try Fkewelling's other trilogy.
Can someone give me one more nudge there? FicusFan?

Ok. Not sure what to say to push you over the edge

The story is based around two main characters: Alec of Kerry a young rustic (wandering hunter) who is out on his own, and Seregil of Rhiminee an exiled noble from the land of Auren. There is a mystery about his background that is explained in book 2 (Stalking Darkness ), and all of book 3 (Traitor's moon) deals with it (as well as other issues). He makes his home in Skala and works as an agent for a highly placed member of the queen's government. He is also closly tied with the wizards. In fact he may work for a wizard -- sorry I forget it has been awhile since I read it.

Seregil travels around as a bard, and as other wild and nefarious characters to gather information about the political and magical plots that the Queen's enemies develop to remove her from the throne. The story of the book: a specific group with an agenda to remove the queen plots to do so with the help of some of the evil wizards, using some magical items I think. A pretty standard story, but the excution is any thing but standard.

Alec and Seregil meet in a dungeon and eventually Alec agrees to become Seregil's apprentice. He travels back to the capital (which is described in much more living detail than the brief sketch of a capital in BDT) with Seregil, while having fun, dangerous and thrilling adventures.

Their lives are threatened, they deal with both good and bad wizards. There are also personal dislikes and professional jealousies, so you are not always sure who is really a bad guy. There are also non-magical bad guys, the deluded and other good guys who help out. LF has simply great minor characters.

I think book one ends with them being discredited to the queen by their enemies and they escape town one step ahead of the hangman. Book 2 is their living life undercover from both friend and foe. They get sucked back into the politics of Skala to try to prove their innocence and to help protect Skala from / headoff the coming war. Alec also has a secret background that he was unaware of, and that comes out as well as Seregil's. Their realtionship changes. Book 3 takes them to Auren on a diplomatic mission to aid Skala during the war. The mission is complicated by Seregil's past.

The writing is vivid, the characters are great, the worldbuilding is detailed and interesting, the dialog is good and the story is fast paced and interesting. LF is on my list of authors whose books are a 'must buy'.

I read the stories in the fall of 1999 I think (but did some skimming just now to try to give you a feeling for the books).
I am sure there were things I didn't like about the books, but I only remember the good aspects. What stands out to me 4 years later is the characters, their relationships, the descriptions of the capital -specifically the Street of Lanterns/Lights, and of Seregil's home and staff who are like family.

The only real complaint I have is that it ended, and that to me LF didn't resolve the story completely. I wanted to spend time in Kerry and learn more about Alec's past (as she did in book 3 with Seregil and Auren). I was so devoted to the first trilogy that BDT sat on my shelf for two years just because it was not about the characters in the first series.

Hope that helps and didn't give too much away.