March 05 BOTM: Sunshine by Robin McKinley

[Nimea]

3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . discuss!

(This might get old with the time, but so far I like it. Reminds me of the Ebay tv ad )

Anyway, I still have about 20 pages to go. So I will first finish it, then think about it some more and then finally post about. I just sooo hope to do so this month and not be late again.

[Eldanuumea]

I read this book back in January and adored it.....was sorry when I got to the final page, wanted to continue the journey with the two main characters.
I will have to peek back before I engage in our discussion, because I am notoriously bad about forgetting details......like names! No, seriously, my memory is not what it once was, and I forget things about a book rather quickly.
I am eager to see what others have to say.

[Nimea]

Well, the way was kept open for a sequel, I think. Maybe even calls for it.
I tried to find out about such plans and Robin McKinley wrote on her homepage that she doesn't know. She knows some things about how Sunshine's story goes on but she says the story has to demand to be written . . . there is always hope.

[Rob B]

I'm going to be a little late coming into this discussion, I haven't read the book yet, I've got a couple of books to review for SFFW.

[FicusFan]

Ok I really wanted to like this book, and in fact had it at home to read before it was picked for the group. Perhaps the problem is that I am a vampire reader, and I expect a vampire book to be good, not just warmed over YA mush with a other authors' ideas. It had some good points but not enough for me to really call it a good book.

I have only ever read McKinley once before, the book of shorts called Water that she wrote with her husband Peter Dickinson. In that book her writing was beautiful and smooth and it flowed and his was choppy and annoying. In this book it seems that her husband has written it, because it is choppy, awkward, and in some passages incomprehensible, or she is deliberately using a style that she thinks suits her POV character - Sunshine.

Sunshine is a dim bulb, and because the book is first person everything comes through her eyes. She has no real life, she has no real friends, she has no interest in life other than baking, she never asks questions, she never thinks much -- we are constantly told she barely passed high school. But yes she is sweet, and full of Sunshine so its ok that she has the intellect of a rock ? Her life is full of love, but when something bad happens she sneaks around and doesn't turn to those in her life that love her because -- she has committed the great sin of thinking for herself (befriending Con), and going against prejudice and stereotypes, and the social status quo (That all Vampires are Evil).

So not only am I disgusted with the POV character, but with the author. Hello, Hello, to quote Jed Bartlett of the West Wing -- "You have turned being unengaged into a Zen-like art". When did it become ok for authors to do that, especially YA authors. Don't achive, don't aspire, don't rock the boat, just follow the rules and get by ?

So besides the sub-text the 'borrowed' ideas here are from LKH's Anita Blake, which everyone is doing - where all the myths and nasty creatures are real, and part of the modern world and the world has to adjust to deal with them. Then there is the young woman chained to a wall and offered as food to a vampire -- that is from Nancy Baker's book Kiss of the Vampire (or The Night Inside). It is oop so perhaps RMK thought she could just recycle it. We won't even mention Spider Callahan's Cross Time Saloon in reference to the coffeehouse.

There were long boring passages about baking which were repeated again and again. RMK also spent a long time setting up the people in Sunshine's life and the oddballs at the coffeehouse. But it is done is such an awkward tap dancing around-the-point manner that it is like trying to describe an elephant to a blind man.

The whole section where she fantasizes about the mutant-evil/magic gene combination (which just exists so she has a plausible reason to play the lone ranger with Con) is incomprehensible. You get at the end that she thinks she has it and will be thrown into an asylum if others know, but the logic and the trip there is painful.

Sunshine never once asks Con how he is a different type of vampire - which is important for her to know. Is she helping to kill someone the next time he feeds or not. She never asks about what purpose he filled for his master. She never asks about the accuracy of the 100 year estimate, or about his dealings with her father and his family. She never asks about how and why they are bound and if it is a real thing or just a debt he owes her. She never asks Con about how she was able to hear, catch and kill a vampire. In fact for someone who talks about being fascinated by the others, and having all this 'common knowledge' about them she never asks anything of the real thing. She never asks her mother about her father's family, or about her own.

The book never deals with Mel or Mrs. Ribofsky or Maude - who they are and why they watch over her. We never even meet Sunshine's mother, who is always off stage. Sunshine supposedly waltzs in and out of Con's company and none of the magic people can tell but her landlady ? The SOF are not very S or very powerful since they can't deal with the creature who runs them let alone actual vampires. It is never really explained why Bo was holding Con, as opposed to just killing him. At the end when Con and Sunshine go off together -- why, what are they going to do for the rest of the night ? Why did we get that pointless almost sex scene.

I felt the book left more unanswered in the story than it told, and seemed a definite set up for a sequel.

I did like the landlady, I thought she was interesting and well done. I liked Con who is mysterious and reticient. I thought her idea about the internet of the future was good, and at the start of how she travelled to Con. I didn't like it later when they were walking that path and things were described as fast fish fizzing by, in an aquarium. I thought the confrontation between her and Con and Bo was an anti-climax, and resolved too quickly and too easily.

I felt there was a lot of build up, and not much to go with it. It fizzled and left me unsatisfied. There were some passages that were written well, and gave a homey feel, but too many didn't work and she used 'had had', 'that that', and 'is is' constantly. Yuck.

[Nimea]

Ah, I guessed you probably wouldn't like it much, Ficus. Maybe because I liked it.
We really should compare reading lists and see where we agree and were we disagree . . . *g*

Anyway, the whole morning I was thinking about responding, after reading your post thoroughly. Now I am back from work and just want to prepare for a long weekend out of town.
So, this has to wait until next week.

I am looking forward to read some more opinions when I am back.

[starry-eyed]

Unlike Ficusfan, I found the heroine to be smart and independent. She was a welcome change after reading about a similar character named Sookie in Dead Until Dark (by Charlaine Harris) –now there was a dim bulb. I liked that Sunshine maintains her relationship with Mel even while things started getting steamy with Connie. It was refreshing that her main problem with Connie was not her sexual feelings toward him, but her prejudice (however justified) against creatures that prey on humanity. Violence is recognized as a greater evil than sex. I also found her attitude towards Connie to reflect her own inability to accept his nature as opposed to societal pressure. Those such as her landlady and grandmother (if that counts) didn’t seem as horrified or upset as Sunshine herself is.

I enjoyed how that humdrum- ness of life as a coffee house bakes is as much a part of the book as the magic and deadly creatures are. Though I did get really hungry while I read the book, it just worked for me to read about confectionary treats on one page and bloody vampires battles on the next. Go figure…

[Leiali]

I have read much of McKinleys work, and I was really disappointed with this, the first in a long while. I whole heartedly agree with Ficus Fan. It was cold, the protagonist was difficult or nigh on impossible to empathise with, and I did not find anything happening all that interesting, except perhaps the first time she meets Vampires. A disappointing book. I loved The Blue Sword. I grew up with that.

[Eldanuumea]

I really, really liked Sunshine and Connie both, and was sad when their story ended......I guess this genre is still relatively new to me, and because I am not as well-read in it as some of you, I am not as critical yet.

Don't know why, but I find the whole vampire thing mesmerizing, and Connie had me hooked. I also was intrigued by Sunshine's ability to "insulate" Connie just by touch.

Could be I am so hungry for another Anita Baker that I find anything with vamp-human relationship to be wonderful!

If I were not presently rereading Sara Douglass, I would reread Sunshine in the light of this discussion.........maybe I''ll find time to do that soon.

[FicusFan]

Originally Posted by Eldanuumea

Could be I am so hungry for another Anita Baker that I find anything with vamp-human relationship to be wonderful!

If I were not presently rereading Sara Douglass, I would reread Sunshine in the light of this discussion.........maybe I''ll find time to do that soon.

Funny I saw on the web someone else wrote a review (maybe Amazon) and said she tried to do Anita Blake, but she (RMK) is afraid of Violence, Gore, Sex, and Blood.

Though she did lift a line from Anita (about vampires): 'Sometimes its better not to know.' (TKD I think) But Anita was talking about what vampires do in bathrooms, not about a major plot line.

Yes, I too, long for book 13, but that won't be until at least October - if she is on time. Unfortunately this book didn't fill the void.

[Eventine]

I was wondering how FicusFan would take this book, being our resident vampire nut.

Excuse the excessive quoting that's about to go on.

warmed over YA mush with a other authors' ideas

I can't really comment on the other authors' ideas bit, but YA? I was just wondering why you thought this was YA?

it is choppy, awkward, and in some passages incomprehensible, or she is deliberately using a style that she thinks suits her POV character - Sunshine

I thought the author did a good job of bringing us Sunshine's voice in the first person style here. The problem with that, is, as you say at times it can be very choppy and lacking in focus, especially when Sunshine is trying to understand something outside human perception - she (Sunshine) lacks the eloquence to convey her meaning.

when something bad happens she sneaks around and doesn't turn to those in her life that love her because -- she has committed the great sin of thinking for herself (befriending Con), and going against prejudice and stereotypes, and the social status quo (That all Vampires are Evil).

An analogy that helped me work with this was thinking of someone gay "coming out" a long time ago when it was extremely socially unacceptable. Imagine trying to tell something like that to your friends and family. chances are soem will be supportive - but then some won't and others will be just plain hostile. This was the feeling I felt Sunshine was going through.

The whole section where she fantasizes about the mutant-evil/magic gene combination (which just exists so she has a plausible reason to play the lone ranger with Con) is incomprehensible.

I'm with you on this one -- there's a few period's in the book where McKinley slips into flat out exposition mode, and it doesn't work.

In fact for someone who talks about being fascinated by the others, and having all this 'common knowledge' about them she never asks anything of the real thing. She never asks her mother about her father's family, or about her own.

That was frustrating as well. Sunshine's mother should have been such an important character in the novel, and isntead did what? Dumped charms in the kitchen. Hooray. This is where we really needed some exposition, not in a 6 page stretch about mixed blood lines.

The SOF are not very S or very powerful since they can't deal with the creature who runs them let alone actual vampires

One again I think that was sort of the point - the only force really stopping the vampires (apart from infighting) was reasonably toothless and basically there to give the population a warm fuzzy feeling. Those inside who cared, like Pat, realised that things were going pear shaped pretty quickly (hence the 100 year thing).

she used 'had had'

I noticed that as well, and while I'll defend the book being written in Sunshine's voice, that was just too much.


As far as concerns about why Bo had Connie chained instead of just killing him, I thought they sufficiently explained it was torture. There was no way (in their mind) that Connie could escape, and thus they were slowly driving him insane with sunshine (note the lack of capitalisation there )
What wasn't explained was why Connie didn't just chow down on Sunshine - what made him different from the other Others (OK, that's it for fun with capitalisation).


So to sum up: I thought Sunshine's voice mostly worked, although when it failed it failed pretty bad. Some parts of the book were filled with exposition, but unfortunately not the parts that mattered. The best part of the book was the first third - it has the thrill of Sunshine being locked up but is before the hard to explain vampire powers and the exposition pieces on bloodlines and vampire culture.

Overall I'd say I liked it but that it didn't set my world on fire and probably wouldn't warrant a re-read.

[intensityxx]

Originally Posted by Eventine

I was wondering how FicusFan would take this book, being our resident vampire nut.

Is a vampire nut anything like a fruit bat?

[Rob B]

I stopped reading this one, I was quite disappointed, especially since I nominated the book. After about 100 pages all I really got out of the book was that the protagonist really enjoys baking and has some magical powers. There really wasn't enough story to keep me interested, long descriptive passages that slowed things down quite a bit.

If the background of the Others and the world of the novel were more interwoven into conversations between characters, it may have been better. As it was, the protagonist reminded me of the really annoying girls I stayed away from in college, who prattled on and on and on incessantly.

I'm also disappointed since this is the second "recommendation" Neil Gaiman has let me down on.

[Eventine]

Fitz just reminded me of one of the other really annoying aspects of the book, and this was more a personal one.
I like to read in set parcels. Knock off at the end of a chapter and head to bed sort of thing. It also helps me find where I'm up to (I don't use a bookmark, and can usually flip through a book until I find a nearby chapter).
This novel was a lot more frustrating though - the lack of clear chapters made it hard for me to decide if it was a good point to stop reading, and harder to start back up again because it wasn't clear where I was up to.

As I said though it's a personal thing and I won't hold it against the author.

[FicusFan]

Originally Posted by intensityxx

Is a vampire nut anything like a fruit bat?

So which is better to be a nut with fangs or a fruit bat ? Oh well.