Kingkiller Chronicles Speculation (Spoilers for both books)

New theory

A couple things that i have been thinking about recently. I think that Stapes is of the Amyr and the bone ring that he gives Kvothe will end up being how Kvothe gets information on the Amyr and their whereabouts. Given his closeness to the Maer and how fervently he serves him, it doesn't seem that he really has anything "outside of his service" to the Maer. Although he says just that when he is giving the bone ring to Kvothe. Also, given what we know from what the cthae told kvothe about the maer being closer to the Amyr than he knows, and the secrecy around the Amyr, this makes perfect sense. The Amyr instilling themselves close to power. It would also giv ehim access to noble libraries to clear them of anything talking about the Amyr. What do you all think?
 
I think the only character who I truly believe is an Amyr at this point is Lorren. He is obviously a person of values, and he was pretty quick to shoo Kvothe away from the library once he started looking into the Amyr.

As for Bast being Kvothe's son, just, no. There isn't any real evidence for it at all, and evidence against it. There is an issue with Bast's age. We'd have to assume Fae age much quicker than normal, which we also have no evidence for. The one that kills this one for me is that in order for it to be true, Rothfuss would be hiding from his reader stuff that presumably both Kvothe and Bast know just to be able to reveal it later. This is something that would have come up by now either in conversation, or simply Rothfuss giving us information about the situation.

I'm not sure I'm explaining my problem with this very well. Basically, it would be Rothfuss hiding something from us that should be pretty out in the open just so he can reveal it later. There's no reason he wouldn't have told us this by now other than to be obscuring, and every reason he would so we can better read the interactions to this point.

Also, having a son would give Kvothe a bigger reason to live then he appears to have right now.
 
Bast could be Kvothe's son, without Kvothe being aware of it.

If I had to bet, I'd bet against it. But there's a whole lot in this story that Kvothe hasn't picked up on, so this could be just another example (if it's true).
 
I am such a fan of these books and the world they create. There are so many mysteries, big ones and small ones. One of the small ones that caught my attention is the tinkers. Has anyone else ever wondered what the tinkers really are? In Hespe's story Iax says he leaves his old broken house to them and I took his house to be a metaphor for the mortal world, then again I might just be crazy. Also did anyone catch the fact that "Kote" means disaster in Siaru? Master kilvin curses at one point in the book and its something like "expect disaster every seven years" and the word that stands out is kote.
 
Very cool stuff. Here's something else cool.
When the Cthaeth says to Kvothe
"The Maer, however, is quite the extraordinary man. He's already come close to them, though he doesn't realize it. Stick by the Maer and he will lead you to their door." he is referring to the literal Doors of Stone, behind which the Amyr (according to Felurian) locked Iax. These are strongly implied to be the same four-plate doors that stand inside the University archives.
A friend of mine came up with another theory:
If Ademre means "place of the Adem", does Imre mean "place of the Amyr"? It seems a bit of a stretch until you notice Old Cob's mispronunciation of the city's name as "Amary". The location of the four-plate door also seems to support this theory
 
Bast

AmethystOrator said:
Bast could be Kvothe's son, without Kvothe being aware of it.

If I had to bet, I'd bet against it. But there's a whole lot in this story that Kvothe hasn't picked up on, so this could be just another example (if it's true).
Click to expand...

With regards to Bast being Kvothe's son I personally hope not. The only evidence is in Bast's name itself. Bastas or 'Bastard'.
 
The number 7

Contrarius said:
For the sake of completeness, here's the Lackless rhyme that Kvothe recites early in NOTW:

“Seven things has Lady Lackless
Keeps them underneath her black dress
One a ring that’s not for wearing
One a sharp word, not for swearing
Right beside her husband’s candle
There’s a door without a handle
In a box, no lid or locks
Lackless keeps her husband’s rocks
There’s a secret she’s been keeping
She’s been dreaming and not sleeping
On a road, that’s not for traveling
Lackless likes her riddle raveling.”
Click to expand...


Has anyone else noticed the significance of the number 7 in the Kingkiller chronicles?
Seven things has lady lackless.
Seven words to make a woman love you
Seven chandrian (Chand- rian) Seven of them.

I know there are other references. I just can't quite remember them.

Has anyone got any theories about this? I'd be really interested to know.
 
Hello, all.
This may have already been addressed, and I apologize if so, but I found no evidence of it being brought up. Did anyone else read Alveron and Stapes as homosexual? This has root in bigotry, but it seemed painfully obvious to me. I mean:
older and unmarried
references to a wild or rebellious youth
the scene where they embrace and Stapes calls the Maer by his first name
the jealousy with which Stapes treats Kvothe (a handsome, young man) at first, and his gratitude later
This only came to my attention as going unnoticed when I was talking about the books with a friend I had turned on to it, mentioned it casually and he interrupted my sentence. Thoughts?
Also, while this is unlikely (sadly so), if Denna is not *The Girl* and Devi is, I will hail Patrick Rothfuss as one of the truest masters of the literary Kansas-City Shuffle.
 
Has there been any realistic projection as to release date for the next in this series?
I guess I don't want it rushed along since I am hoping book 3 intrigues me the way Book 1 did, rather than disappoint me like book 2 did.
It seems like back when I read NoTW I ran across something from Rothfuss indicating that the entire series was already written and just needed some polish. Anyone else get that impression at one time?
 
Number 7 (continued)

Jimtose said:
Has anyone else noticed the significance of the number 7 in the Kingkiller chronicles?
Seven things has lady lackless.
Seven words to make a woman love you
Seven chandrian (Chand- rian) Seven of them.

I know there are other references. I just can't quite remember them.

Has anyone got any theories about this? I'd be really interested to know.
Click to expand...

Seven things has lady lackless, keeps them underneath her black dress.
Seven chandrian.
Seven string troupers lute.
Seven days of High Mourning.
Menda-Tehlu- Son of himself- Became a full grown man on the seventh span.
"in the end seven stayed on the other side" -- Story told my Trapis
"At the end of seven years, tehlu's feet had"-- " " " "
"For six days Encanis fled, and six great cities he destroyed. But on the seventh day, Tehlu drew near before
Encanis could bring his power to bear and the seventh city was saved."-- " "
"That is why seven is a lucky number"
"Do you know the seven words to make a woman love you"
"If I were looking for a good number I'd have to go up to seven... or down to three"
"Expect disaster every seven years"

Thats just some of the references to the number 7 from TNOTW.

I know it might seem a little mundane. But I'd really like to know what the fascination is with the number 7.
Is there anything special about it? Or is it just something that is part of the general make-up of the book. Like us saying 13 is unlucky. Or there are seven days to a week.


Is the number seven important? And if so why?
 
Okay, my two cents:

I think we have to consider the format of how the next book will play out. Unlike the first two, I doubt it will be 95% flashbacks and storytelling. Most likely, the first 60% will be Kvothe catching the readers up to the current day. The other 40% will be Kvothe having regained his powers (somehow, possibly Bast bringing Denna to the Inn in a last ditch attempt) and Kvothe going after the rest of the Chandrian, however many still survive.

Kvothe obviously (whether on purpose, or accidentally) started the war that rages the lands in the present day and he holds himself SO personally responsible for his actions (Most likely he couldn't stomach seeing so many die due to his actions) that he locks his powers away in that chest with a name of some sort.

Near the end of the TWMF Kvothe makes an attempt to open the chest, but can't. This is interesting because it leads me to believe that HE has the ability to open it himself, but still can't get through his own mental barriers to actually DO it. Hence why he makes an ATTEMPT to fight off the soldiers hired by Bast, but still gets his ass handed to him anyways. A part of Kvothe OBVIOUSLY wants his powers back, but a larger portion of him, (His sleeping mind perhaps) is still keeping him from taking that next step in his recovery from trauma.

I believe Bast feels that he needs to up his efforts another notch and does try to bring some surviving character or characters from the story to him to help wake him up. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bast suddenly up and leave when the third book begins and go off looking for something or someone to help while Kvothe continues telling his tale to Chronicler.

It's also possibly that Bast goes in search for Felurian as his 'ace in the hole'. Letting her know where Kvothe is. If anyone outside of Denna could 'wake up Kvothe' from his trauma, I think it would be Felurian.

As for the 'Doors of Stone', I don't think any of the Chandrian are held or imprisoned by the doors. It's possible that it is a prison though for REAL names and that somehow those doors open, unleashing chaos around the world as Kvothe or whomever suddenly has unthinkable power over those names.

Despite where the second book leaves off, I do strongly believe that the 3rd book ends with a showdown between Haliax and Kvothe ala 'Voldemort VS. Potter'. Whatever crimes Kvothe may have done himself, he would want the ultimate redemption, kill Haliax and bring peace to the land.

Also, I don't think Master Ash is Cinder. Cinder is 'otherworldly' obviously, and I doubt that he would have a walking stick after being injured by an arrow. The only reason Cinder flees the bandit camp is because of secrecy. I believe Cinder could have wiped out the party had he not tried to be hidden and kept things secretive.

It's also possible that the box Lady Lackless owns holds the true name of someone very important, most likely Haliax/Lanre himself. We're obviously not done with that box of hers, and the age of the box would coincide with some of the legends and tales we've heard about Lanre.

Sorry if I rambled a little. Also, I apologize for any spelling errors, I listened to the audiobooks, so I didn't see any of these names in print yet. :)
 
Ed Haas said:
Okay, my two cents:

I think we have to consider the format of how the next book will play out. Unlike the first two, I doubt it will be 95% flashbacks and storytelling. Most likely, the first 60% will be Kvothe catching the readers up to the current day. The other 40% will be Kvothe having regained his powers (somehow, possibly Bast bringing Denna to the Inn in a last ditch attempt) and Kvothe going after the rest of the Chandrian, however many still survive.

Kvothe obviously (whether on purpose, or accidentally) started the war that rages the lands in the present day and he holds himself SO personally responsible for his actions (Most likely he couldn't stomach seeing so many die due to his actions) that he locks his powers away in that chest with a name of some sort.

Near the end of the TWMF Kvothe makes an attempt to open the chest, but can't. This is interesting because it leads me to believe that HE has the ability to open it himself, but still can't get through his own mental barriers to actually DO it. Hence why he makes an ATTEMPT to fight off the soldiers hired by Bast, but still gets his ass handed to him anyways. A part of Kvothe OBVIOUSLY wants his powers back, but a larger portion of him, (His sleeping mind perhaps) is still keeping him from taking that next step in his recovery from trauma.

I believe Bast feels that he needs to up his efforts another notch and does try to bring some surviving character or characters from the story to him to help wake him up. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bast suddenly up and leave when the third book begins and go off looking for something or someone to help while Kvothe continues telling his tale to Chronicler.

It's also possibly that Bast goes in search for Felurian as his 'ace in the hole'. Letting her know where Kvothe is. If anyone outside of Denna could 'wake up Kvothe' from his trauma, I think it would be Felurian.

As for the 'Doors of Stone', I don't think any of the Chandrian are held or imprisoned by the doors. It's possible that it is a prison though for REAL names and that somehow those doors open, unleashing chaos around the world as Kvothe or whomever suddenly has unthinkable power over those names.

Despite where the second book leaves off, I do strongly believe that the 3rd book ends with a showdown between Haliax and Kvothe ala 'Voldemort VS. Potter'. Whatever crimes Kvothe may have done himself, he would want the ultimate redemption, kill Haliax and bring peace to the land.

Also, I don't think Master Ash is Cinder. Cinder is 'otherworldly' obviously, and I doubt that he would have a walking stick after being injured by an arrow. The only reason Cinder flees the bandit camp is because of secrecy. I believe Cinder could have wiped out the party had he not tried to be hidden and kept things secretive.

It's also possible that the box Lady Lackless owns holds the true name of someone very important, most likely Haliax/Lanre himself. We're obviously not done with that box of hers, and the age of the box would coincide with some of the legends and tales we've heard about Lanre.

Sorry if I rambled a little. Also, I apologize for any spelling errors, I listened to the audiobooks, so I didn't see any of these names in print yet. :)
Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree with some points.

Firstly I believe that whats behind the doors of stone is Iax.
Now several points before I start quoting: Iax was the one who stole the moon. Jax in Hespe's story trapped the moon in a box. Felurian mentions that the guy who ripped the moon out of the sky is trapped behind the doors of stone. (obviously Iax and Jax... same person. Stories just changed his name)

"She held up the smooth stone. but still one moon. And it all round and cozy in the mortal sky. Her smile faded. but one shaper was greater than the rest. For him the making of a star was not enough. He stretched his will across the world and pulled her from her home..."No calling of names here. I will not speak of that one, though he is shut beyond the doors of stone."

So.... guy who stole the moon... shut beyond the doors of stone. Iax.
So Iax is trapped behind the doors of stone.

Now as for the Lackless box. I believe simply enough that the Lackless box holds a part of the Moon's name.

"Something metal, by the way the weight shifts when I tilt it. I closed my eyes and listened to the padded thump of its contents moving in the box. No. By the weight of it, perhaps something made of glass or stone."---> I have a strong feeling that this holds the moon's name.

As for what Kvothe keeps in the box. I would be horribly disappointed in Rothfuss if it turned out to be something as simple as his name and powers etc.
When Denna, Dinnae, Dianneh etc makes Kvothe promise not to look for her patron Kvothe swears "I swear it on my name and my power. I swear it by my good left hand. I swear it by the ever-moving moon."
Now there's a significant amount of evidence to go with this:
1st: No music "left hand more nimble, as a rule" Kvothe can't play music anymore because his left hand is no good to him. He can't play properly. We know he can still sing because "With the fire shining in his hair, he sang Tinker Tanner, with more verses than anyone had heard before, and no one minded in the least."
So we know Kvothe can sing. He still has a lovely singing voice from all appearances. But he won't play music.... Why? He can't... His left hand can't chord on his lute.

2nd: When making the wreaths "The innkeepers fingers fumbled clumsily" When have we ever heard of Kvothe's fingers being clumsy. This is absolutely against everything we know about him.

I know there's more that I could dig up but I can't be bothered.

So to summarise:
Iax/Jax is trapped behind the doors of stone.
Iax was the one who stole the moon and sealed it in a special box.
The Lackless box holds the final part to the moon's name.
Kvothe swore not to look for Denna's patron and did. Thus binding his powers and hand.

Finally: Someone mentioned earlier a theory about Lorren being a member of the Amyr. I haven't seen any evidence for it, but I genuinely enjoy the idea of him being one of the Amyr.
 
So this is my first time on here and I greatly enjoy these books and marvel at Rothfuss's abilitiy to sneak a bunch of information in the second book which everyone complains about.
So I will try not to relist a bunch of theories I have already read here but share some of my own. Sorry if I have relisted any that were mentioned before!! (also sorry for any spelling mistakes)

Chandrian
1. The door of the Chandrian is the box that is in the Lackless family.
Maer led him to it as told by the Cthaeh
Rhymes of children stating that 7 things stand before the Lackless door all of which may be a variation of the signs/original beings~ of the Chandrian also known as the 7 who came before not of fae or human

2. Copper is important for both fae, human, and those that came before (namers/shapers/listeners) So it may be that it doesnt have a name? not sure here
In Martens story of T the G the sword is copper
One of the locks on his thrice locked chest is copper
A knife used by the farmers wives to defend? against the fae? again copper
And finally as a mesh in Haven

3. The Adem story and the Edema Ruh
Definitely related and maybe factions of the same group
Edema Ruh love for music and the Adem disgust of it
Wanderers: One found a place one did not
In the story of the Edema Ruh The storytellers name is Sceop, When he collapses on his way to Haert he says "Sceopa teyas" I am assuming sceopa is the verb in this case speak/speaking
Lethani is a type of listening? Im reaching with this one but it makes sense. The old man in the story of Jax/Iax lived in the mountains home of the Adem. Its how Kvothe can catch the name of the wind(spinning leaf).
Finally, it is how Rethe and Aethe can "read" the wind in the 99 tales story
A Poet and a king killer is Kvothe... Did he kill Vashet's poet king of the small kingdoms? Reach there I know but so far the only poet king mentioned. Unless you assume Simmon's family dies off and all others between his position as a duke and
king. However, the other option would be to kill the Maer after he has become king and the Maer did seduce the Lackless heir with poems and songs even if they were written by Kvothe.
On a side note, I do find it interesting that the Lackless heir would also become king and if Meluan is his Aunt then Kvothe would be in line for King.

4. Denna
Lots of speculation on her but I assume she has to be other, not human.
Older than she appears. One reason is the Yllish knots she keeps braiding into her hair
The book she mentions of someone writing things down that then become true, (shapers) and oddly enough Kvothe's and Bast's story of Chronicler mirrors that
The constant mention of blood red lips even in the dark of night
 
New to the site. I have read through NOTW and WMF twice and can easily say that this has the potential to be my favorite series ever. PR has done a great job with the books and has left a lot out there for us to look at.

My main big theory that I want some fans to toss around is: Could Kvothe really be a child of the Fae, and if so, is it possible that he is actually a child of the Cthae?

I know that there has been a lot of people who have speculated about Kvothe and the Fae, but is it possible that the Cthae could not poison him to the full extent because he is part Cthae? He also seems to have a unique ability to sort situations out before they happen. There are of course the normal aspects that support him being part of the Fae with the changing color of eyes, his strong attraction or dislike from other people, etc.

My main reason for coming up with this bleak theory is due to the fact that I want this story to have some redemption rather than a mere tragedy disguised as an uplifting coming-of-age tale. Maybe if the normal rules of the Cthae do not apply, since he is one of them, the story can have a positive ending instead of the one I fear we are headed to...
 
Hi all KKC fans,

I'm wondering if anybody has the same problem with the ages of Chronicler and Kvothe when they are at the Waystone Inn:

1. In his first days at the University Kvothe reads the Book Chronicler has written about the common draccus.
2. When Kvothe tells the short form of his trail against the iron law, Chronicler says that this was the first story he heard about Kvothe when he went to the University.

In the end of WMF Kvothe says to Bast and Chronicler that they are both so young.

Either I get something mixed up or Chronicler can not be much younger than Kvothe since 15-years-old Kvothe reads a book written by Chronicler ...

Any hints on this?

PS: Anybody else here has the feeling that Denna could be the angle that Kvothe had killed? :(
 
I find that my memory of this series (specifically the Jax/Iax stuff) has faded in the past year or so, but there's still a bunch of stuff I want to address on this thread, because there are some great thoughts.

Nightwalker
Very cool stuff. Here's something else cool.
When the Cthaeth says to Kvothe
"The Maer, however, is quite the extraordinary man. He's already come close to them, though he doesn't realize it. Stick by the Maer and he will lead you to their door." he is referring to the literal Doors of Stone, behind which the Amyr (according to Felurian) locked Iax. These are strongly implied to be the same four-plate doors that stand inside the University archives.
A friend of mine came up with another theory:
If Ademre means "place of the Adem", does Imre mean "place of the Amyr"? It seems a bit of a stretch until you notice Old Cob's mispronunciation of the city's name as "Amary". The location of the four-plate door also seems to support this theory
Click to expand...

I think you are bang-on with the naming of Imre. However, that does not necessarily lead directly to the conclusion that titular "Doors of Stone" are located at the university. (The fact that there is some giant stone doors at the university do make that very likely though.) The place of the Amyr could simply be a historical name, and with the current undercoverness of the Amyr in present day, not be all that relevant to the current story. Your argument is convincing however, and something to keep an eye on.

Jimtose
Is the number seven important? And if so why?
Click to expand...

My inclination is that seven is just sort of a cool number that ties things together. I don't believe we will get an explicit explanation as to why it appears so frequently.

Ed Haas
I think we have to consider the format of how the next book will play out. Unlike the first two, I doubt it will be 95% flashbacks and storytelling. Most likely, the first 60% will be Kvothe catching the readers up to the current day. The other 40% will be Kvothe having regained his powers (somehow, possibly Bast bringing Denna to the Inn in a last ditch attempt) and Kvothe going after the rest of the Chandrian, however many still survive.
Click to expand...

I'm not as big into discussing events that will happen in the future, which makes up a large part of your post. What I will say is that one of the titles of the next book is Day 3, suggesting that most of the book will happen over 1 day. There is room for some future stuff, as book 1 had some prologue-like things happening the day before the story for example, but most of the book centred on that one day. That leads me to believe that the majority of Kvothe's story has already happened, and the conclusion of the frame story will be much less of the book than a lot of people think.

Jimtose (again)
Kvothe swore not to look for Denna's patron and did. Thus binding his powers and hand.
Click to expand...

This is such a tempting theory. The wording of his oath is so exact, especially in comparison with what we see of him in the frame story that it is hard to believe that this oath was meaningless. However, we have been given no reason at this point to believe oaths like this have any power. There simply doesn't seem to be anything supernatural in what Kvothe says here. There is no naming that I can see, and certainly no sympathy. Something would have to be introduced in the final book to show why this oath has power, and at that point it would be almost Deus Ex Machina. I'm not counting it out by any means, I just believe at this point if we were to learn the swear is binding and why, it would be poorly done on Rothfuss part. I can probably flesh that idea out in a more focused post if I'm being cryptic here.

mcmillap
My main reason for coming up with this bleak theory is due to the fact that I want this story to have some redemption rather than a mere tragedy disguised as an uplifting coming-of-age tale. Maybe if the normal rules of the Cthae do not apply, since he is one of them, the story can have a positive ending instead of the one I fear we are headed to...
Click to expand...

Yeah, that stuff with the Ctheah is legitimately depressing and I've been looking for ways around it myself. The best I can come up with is that Bast misrepresented what the Ctheah is about. For example, the organization whose name escapes me was supposed to be guarding it, according to Bast, and there weren't there. It is possible, though not entirely likely, that the Cthaeh isn't the force of evil we are led to believe it is.

schnufu
I'm wondering if anybody has the same problem with the ages of Chronicler and Kvothe when they are at the Waystone Inn:

1. In his first days at the University Kvothe reads the Book Chronicler has written about the common draccus.
2. When Kvothe tells the short form of his trail against the iron law, Chronicler says that this was the first story he heard about Kvothe when he went to the University.

In the end of WMF Kvothe says to Bast and Chronicler that they are both so young.

Either I get something mixed up or Chronicler can not be much younger than Kvothe since 15-years-old Kvothe reads a book written by Chronicler ...

Any hints on this?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Kvothe is younger than Chronicler by a fair amount. I think Kvothe is younger than 25 when the frame story occurs (someone makes an estimate of his age at one point and it reasonable to expect he'd be younger than that.) So Chronicler could be 10 years older than Kvothe, be 25ish when he wrote about the draccus, and still be considered a young man by the time the frame story rolls around. As for tales heard by Chronicler at the university, I'm pretty sure he is referring to passing through the University on his travels, not actually being a student there.
 
molybdenum said:
I'm pretty sure Kvothe is younger than Chronicler by a fair amount. I think Kvothe is younger than 25 when the frame story occurs (someone makes an estimate of his age at one point and it reasonable to expect he'd be younger than that.) So Chronicler could be 10 years older than Kvothe, be 25ish when he wrote about the draccus, and still be considered a young man by the time the frame story rolls around. As for tales heard by Chronicler at the university, I'm pretty sure he is referring to passing through the University on his travels, not actually being a student there.
Click to expand...

I think you're wrong. Chronicler and Kvothe talks about how eccentric Elodin is. Chronicler also mention how rough Elodin treated him so he was definetly a student at some point. I fairly sure that it's some kind of timeline mixup by Rothfuss and his team.

I haven't read all the post's here some maybe someone brought this up. Do you guys remember in the name of the wind when Denna asks Kvothe and his friends about magic. And she kind of brings up a magic where you write stuff to make it happen. Like self fullfilling prophecies. And then in wise man's fear in the end how she knots her hair into yllish story knots. Kvothe noticed a few time how she wrote "lovely" and "don't talk anymore" or something like that. Was curious of what you guys thought.
 
I've definitely seen the theory that while there is a real Chronicler, he's not the person who shows up at Kote's and is in the framing story.
 
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