Not sure there's room for other big names besides me
Actually, yes there are some very well known names slated to appear in the film but until contracts are done, it isn't my place to start bandying them about. If all those who should appear, do appear, it'll be quite a cast and an honour to be on the roll with them.
I finished Dawnthief the other day, but did not manage to find time to post here...but I have now, so here goes. Btw, anything that might count as a spoiler is blacked out.
Here is a list of things I liked and things I thought could be better (and no doubt are done better in the following books).
1) Basically, I enjoyed Dawnthief. I think it is a fun, very readable book which manages to strike a nice balance between humour and seriousness. In terms of plot it is hardly the most original story ever devised, but this doesn't matter at all as the pacing is good and keeps you interested. In fact, the last third or so of the book just rips along at a frantic speed and you barely have time to breathe, which is definitely a good thing.
2) Probably the thing I liked most about the world that Dawnthief takes place in is the magic. I found this well developed and realistic, with the four different colleges and their different lores/conflicting morals, etc. Definitely an interesting concept that works really well. The use of magic in battles really added something extra, and made things more exciting.
3) The Raven are cool. Can't put it more simply than that.
4) The way that the characters of Hirad and Ilkar gradually changed towards Denser was well done and convincing. This can also be said of Denser's change towards them and the Raven.
5) The whole notion of Denser's familiar and their relationship worked really well.
6)
The way The Unknown Warrior died and then came back was a good twist, made even better by the revelation that he had been a protector soul all along.
7) It was nice to read a novel by an author who wasn't afraid to kill off a few characters; keeps the reader on their toes!
There's probably loads more good points but that's all I can think of right now.
Below are some of the things I thought could have been done better. I don't want to sound like some sort of guru or expert, as I'm not at all, I just want to objectively state what I thought were weaker aspects of the novel. Most of these are blacked out as they relate to important aspects of the plot.
1)
Richmond was never really developed enough. He didn't say much to give you a feel for him. I couldn't have even told you what he looked like; I'm not sure if he was ever described physically, though I might be wrong. His death provoked a mere shrug of the shoulders as a result. The same could be said of Talan, though to a slightly lesser extent. I did feel that perhaps his decision to leave the Raven was more to do with the fact that he added little to the story more than anything else, but I could just be being a bit cynical here.
2)
The pity I felt for Erienne was lessened by the fact she showed no emotion about the fact that Alun had died. He obviously cared a great deal about her and died trying to free her, and she didn't seem to care that he had died. This didn't really endear her to me.
3)
The relationship between Denser and Erienne - in my opinion - happened a little fast. They just seemed to get together pretty quickly, with little sign of an attraction developing. It just sort of happened. Of course, this happens in real life (I've experienced it myself) but there are always at least a few signs. Between these two, there was no real indication this was going to happen which made it seem slightly implausible.
4) Personally I would have liked a bit more information about the Wesmen; the first few times they are involved there is little physical description.
5)
Darkwings didn't quite work for me...there was just something about it. I'm not sure what, so that comment isn't really very helpful, but it just seemed to me unrealistic. Yes, I know it's magic and all but it still seemed not quite right. But this is simply my personal opinion.
Right, I think that is enough for one post.
The bottom line is that I think Dawnthief is a highly enjoyable read and I would suggest that all fans of heroic/adventure fantasy should give it a try. I'm already some way into Noonshade and am pleased to note that I can see the difference in the writing style between the start of Dawnthief and the start of Noonshade.
Great post, I really appreciate you taking the time to log your thoughts. I'm delighted you enjoyed the book overall and it's clear you've got out of it, most of the things I hope readers will.
Naturally, I agree with all your plus points
As for the issues you had (and I shall be oblique so as to avoid spoilers)...
Richmond - I agree with you on the whole. He could and should have been developed further.
Erienne - again I agree however, you learn more about her and the tragedies in her life as the series progresses. But I could have drawn her with a little more sympathy at the outset.
The relationship you speak of. Yes it did but there was an agenda here too so the timing of everything was quite deliberate.
The Wesmen? Read on... they are a more and more important people in the books and you'll find much about them in the future.
The Blackwings.. well I guess that's just a place we'll have to agree to differ.
And my question to you now is, does Dawnthief inspire you to read on and find out where The Raven go next, or not? (And why...)
No problem, it's a pleasure to be able to interact with an author and have constructive discussions.
To answer your question, yes without doubt.
Here's why:
One thing you did very well in Dawnthief was to lay a foundation for a sequel. I liked the way the novel ended. I have to admit I prefer a touch of bittersweetness, as in my opinion there are few totally happy endings to anything. This is exactly what you managed to achieve, by having the Wytch Lords (they are a nice creation btw) with the manner of their banishment causing the rip in the sky. This immediately leads to a feeling that something clearly is not right, and I - as a reader - wanted to find out what happened. Plus I wanted to see what happens to Hirad, Denser, etc. So in a word, yes I definitely feel inclined to read on (fortunate, given that I've already got the other two in the series! As I mentioned, I'm already 1/4 into Noonshade and so far so good. The immediate impression I've got from Noonshade is that your writing seems more concise, more confident; you know what you want to achieve.
As for the Wesmen, yeah I understand they are more fully developed in Noonshade, though I think a touch more depth to them in Dawnthief would have been good. Just personal opinion of course, but I'm glad there are being given more 'screen time' in Noonshade. One other thing I forgot to say that I liked in Dawnthief were the Protectors and the whole background to them - cool idea.
Great stuff, JamesL, thanks for that. I'm a fan of finishing the central theme of a story within the covers of a single book but leaving threads open that hopefully attract people to read on.
Fair point about the Wesmen (and if you really want more and more about them, the second trilogy has yet more...) and delighted you liked the Protectors. Again they develop more as the books progress.
You're right about Noonshade. I didn't suffer from the classic 'second book' syndrome that some authors do. I loved writing that book and felt I was learning fast how to construct a novel. As Joe Abercrombie says in his thread, you always want to improve as a writer and I like to think I'm still doing that.
I haven't gotten around to reading the Raven books yet, though they come highly recommended by a friend of mine and they are most definitly on my to read list. Reading this post has nudged them a bit further up the list, though, Nom, and you're now in good company ( Steven Erikson and Guy Gavriel Kay ), if that's any consolation to you
However, the problem is that my friend has often compared these books to the work of David Gemmel, which he also likes very much. I decided to give the Skilgannon books a go ( White Wolf and The Swords of Night and Day ) and to be honest, I was sorely disappointed. I know Gemmel is often praised on these forums, but I can honestly not understand why. Perhaps I should read a bit more than just two books, but I found them to be like the run of the mill action movie, in that I instantly forgot about it the moment I put the book down.
The characters are very onedimensional ( granted, the tormented hero who has a past of unspeakable evil is very interesting, but Gemmel doesn't really do anything with it ) , and they don't show any growth or change.
The story is virtually non-existing : Skilgannon is looking for a temple to resurrect his dead wife, and on the road to said temple a bunch of stuff happens. Granted, stuff always happens in fantasy novels, which is fine, as long as it has to do with the overall story and doesn't take up 90 % of the book, while the main goal of the protagonist is wrapped up in the last 50 pages.
The only redeeming feature would be the action, but I found that fights often happened for no reason other than a bunch of thugs getting it into their heads to push Skillgannon's buttons a bit, so he can duck beneath their blow, have the Sword of Day flash out and sever their jugulars again, and plant the Sword of Night in their hearts for the umpteenth time, in that exact order.
Hm, I'm sorry, I seem to have gone on a bit of a rant about Gemmel. What I would like is for people who have read both authors to tell me what is so great about Gemmel and, most importantly, tell me if the comparison my friend often makes is justified, or if I can rest assured and leave the raven books high in my to read list.
Nobody can justify Gemmell's praise for you, nor should they want to, you read it, you like it, or you don't... simple.
I think Gemmell and Barclay are quite different, however, they both write heroic fantasy and both authors target the adult audience. I have found that readers who enjoy Gemmell, also enjoy Barclay, I am one such reader.
I'd suggest reading Legend or Waylander, as these books seem to elicit the highest praise from Gemmell fans. However, whilst I think the Skilgannon sagas are far from Gemmell's best, I can't see any of his other books converting you if you didn't find anything that inspired you to read more... as you said, there is so much to read out there and our 'to-read' piles don't get any smaller, do they?
I'm a Gemmell disciple and have read (and own) every single book the man has written but most fans agree that David had his style and his themes and he rarely diverged from them. However, there are some gems in his works, like the Lion of Macedon and Dark Prince, the Knights of Dark Renown and even Echoes of the Great Song, which splits fans down the middle. But this thread is about James!
Barclay's new series, the first book being 'Cry of the Newborn', really evidences James' evolution as a writer and a craftsman. It is highly complex and touches on some fascinating themes... I strongly recommend it.
I think I've read all of your works, NOM, and they're all very good.
Recently read the Cry of the Newborn, I probably didn't enjoy it as much as the others because of the lack of the Raven , but also because I felt the battle scenes, which I enjoyed greatly in the earlier books, had become larger in scale and less exciting to me.
Good stuff nonetheless.
Barclay's new series, the first book being 'Cry of the Newborn', really evidences James' evolution as a writer and a craftsman. It is highly complex and touches on some fascinating themes... I strongly recommend it.
I just ordered the Raven books. Somehow, if I ask advice on this site, I always end up adding to my already considerable to read list. Thanks, Hobbit... I think
Well, the two series are very different, Nightsorrow... but your comments are welcome, thank you. Some who loved The Raven have found the transition to the bigger canvas not completely to their liking at first. Some preferred it.
I had to work hard to make the big battle scenes personal and not simply appear like texts from Roman military history. For you, obviously, not quite personal enough but I know others liked the zooming in and out sort of thing with front line fighting mixed with overview from the generals' viewpoints. You may be glad to know that my next book will not be a big as either of the two Ascendants books (the second one is out 4th Jan, Hobbit...) and I think will be to your liking if you enjoyed The Raven. You'll have to let me know but don't hold your breath. I've only just started writing it.
Prospero... thank you very much for buying The Raven. Don't forget to leave your comments as and when you get round to reading any of them. I hope you enjoy them.
So I am rectifying my Barclay deficiency. I have a choice between the first book of the Raven, or The Cry of the Newborn. I am more drawn to the described plot of Newborn than the other. Which would folk recommend for first read? The author is not allowed to answer -- at least not first.
It's nearly as big as the entire Raven series anyway!
It's far more complex, has an original premise and characters, and of course is more representative of James' style and ability as it is right now, rather than his debut, which is still high quality compared to some established writers.
Well I like the elementals stories, and some things NOM said about it earlier sounded interesting. So I'll let him talk now. Go ahead, N. Eventually, I probably will accumulate all of them, but which dish to start? (Got to love asking authors to pick one of their children.)
Ah yes, which of the children to push to the front... which to catch the questing eye and bring us all fortune, eh? Which to taste the sweetest, in the maw of the beast and save the rest of us? There's a character in there somewhere, no doubt.
Well, it's like this. If you want 100 mile an hour action fantasy thrillers with loveable characters, sudden death and a bit of English trench humour chucked in, then it has to be The Raven. And you can have six bites of them if you like the first. All standard fat fantasy length if there is such a thing.
If you want original premise fantasy based in a roman-esque world with the tax man as the hero and four teenagers as the weapons of mass destruction plus more considered building of many kinds and a flexing of my epic fantasy muscle, then it must be The Ascendants. Both big door stoppers because I don't believe in chopping up a story into bits just to publish more books and I do believe the length is justified in each case.
I am proud of all my children. And those descriptions don't tell the whole story at all. But since no one else is allowed to flog their work on these boards, I will stop there... yours to choose Kat.
But a little whisper in my ear reminds me that Juzza and Hobbit both speak good sense.
Whatever you choose, thank you and give me the crit when you're done.
