July 2008 BOTM: The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss

[Hobbit]

Discussion for this month is now open.

Just to get things started, this is what Rob said in the SFFWorld review (Link HERE):

The last few years have proven good for fantasy fiction from new voices, with writers like R. Scott Bakker, Scott Lynch, Hal Duncan, Alan Campbell, and Joe Abercrombie bursting onto the scene. This year THE book, debut or otherwise, is likely to be The Name of the Wind, by first time novelist Patrick Rothfuss. Rotfhuss does not spin the genre on its rear in the same way, he simply tells a wonderful, story of fantasy. When the publisher, Elizabeth Wollheim, uses as the cover of the advanced reading copy a letter proclaiming the book the best debut she’s read in thirty years, comparing Rothfuss to George R.R. Martin and Tad Williams, then you know you might be holding a special book in your hands. Rothfuss has crafted an incredible, rich and realistic story with this novel. Though The Name of the Wind is not a humorous novel, Rothfuss, like Scott Lynch, adds humor in the right doses and in the right spots. He doesn’t stray too far from the tropes of the genre, he embraces them, he makes them his own. That in itself is a cliché for many reviews, but it works for Rothfuss. As for some of the main ingredients for the book, what does it have? A young orphan? Check. A school of magic? Check. While it may sound familiar, Rothfuss doesn’t allow his story to rest on these ingredients. Like a master chef, he adds ingredients, both subtle and powerful, to create a delicious stew of his own creation. When this creation is pared back down to its bare bones, it is essentially the chronicle of a legend, from his happy beginnings with his family as a troupe of traveling entertainers swiftly ended by a band of marauders, to his life on the streets then to his time in the University where truly starts on his road to powerful, near mythical wizard.

Many of the things Rothfuss does are indeed subtle. The story starts rather typically – an innkeeper, Kote, tends to his customers in a comfortable setting. When a dark creature enters the inn and is destroyed by strange means, things come to be more clear. For one, the innkeeper is not an innkeeper at all, he is the legendary wizard Kvothe. Again, this is not an entirely new idea; hide your legend/protagonist in plain sight. After the first thirty to fifty pages of this impressive tome, Rothfuss is telling the reader things aren’t exactly what they seem and what lies under the surface is much more interesting than it would otherwise seem. Rotfhuss does a superb job of drawing the reader into the familiar and comfortable story, a familiar feeling story, until he changes gears and keeps the reader hooked in even more. He does this both in the focus of the story and the narrative voice, switching from third person omniscient to first person narrative, allowing the protagonist to tell his own story.

As Kvothe begins to reveal his life story, each detail is a spice that compliments the one which preceded it. As a part of a traveling group of mummers, young Kvothe took to the lute and music became an important foundation of his later life. Another important aspect of Kvothe’s life, and the novel itself, is the power of story. After all, the majority of this novel is told as a story by Kvothe to a historical chronicler. From the stories Kvothe recalls his father telling, to the stories and plays his family put on for eager crowds, entrancing an audience of either one (like a reader) to an audience of man many, factors powerfully. Also during these formative days does Kvothe gain a fascination and appreciation of Magic. Kvothe invites an elderly man named Abenthy (Ben), who shows hints of magic, the troupe encounters on their travels to join the troupe. It isn’t long before Kvothe soon effectively becomes the man’s apprentice. Ben tells Kvothe of the magic and great things he can learn at the University, and how Kvothe’s skill with the lute is one indicator of how much potential he might have at the University and with the craft of Magic. Kvothe cannot douse this flame of interest.

Like Rotfhuss’s shift in narrative voice early in the novel, Kvothe’s life soon shifts, though this is a major turn for the worse. His troupe has an encounter with a seemingly random group of marauders. Like the story itself, these marauders are more than they seem. Kvothe gets only a hint; his father was telling the wrong stories, stories about the mysterious people known as the Chandrian. Kvothe soon hitches a ride to Tarbeam, a sizeable city where he becomes a street urchin, living only by his wits and bare feet. Kvothe eventually leaves the streets and journeys to make his bid for entry in the University. Along the way, he falls in with a caravan where he meets a lovely, enchanting woman named Denna. He is faced with a hard decision when the caravan arrives at Imre, the young woman, Kvothe says goodbye to Denna and the scene is one of few that plays out a bit too clichéd.

Once in the University, Kvothe encounters several hurdles as he is introduced to scholarly life. The picture Rothfuss paints of the University, again, comes through not as a many-detailed thing, focusing on the minutia. The world comes through as part of the story, not something separate. Through Kvothe’s eyes, the University seems both a marvel and a thing of frustration, giving him a situation not unlike having your cake, but not being able to eat it. Or rather, running for miles before you can actually eat it. Here, Kvothe soon relies on the acting skills he learned when his parents were alive. More importantly; however, Kvothe’s skill and the knowledge of magic he gained under Ben more than gets him through his tough situations, these skills with magic are precisely what gains him entrance into the University. Some elements which may be considered "legendary" are played out in the University.

The structure of the book is something to be noted again. The majority of the story taking place at the University, Rotfhuss allows Kvothe to tell most of the story, providing for first person narrative. The brief interludes when Kvothe pauses his story and the novel returns to the third person omniscient, provide great hints of what is to come in Kvothe’s narrative. This switch in narrative voice is not unlike Matthew Stover’s Heroes Die, wherein the scenes when Hari is Caine in Overworld are first person, and the scenes of Hari in the "real world" are third person. Since the story is primarily told from the first person narrative, two other authors draw immediate comparison – Robin Hobb and Gene Wolfe. Both are writers who excel with such viewpoint narratives and moreso with Hobb do the similarities seem strongest. Like her Shaman’s Crossing, the elements of young men coming of together in a closed setting set the tone for The Name of the Wind. Rothfuss’s debut also has a feel similar to Hobb’s Assassin’s Apprentice, with the orphaned youth living in the shadows of "normal" life. Where Rotfhuss’s novel moves into Wolfe territory is the reliability of the narrator. Wolfe is widely known for his unreliable narrators. It may be too early in Rothfuss’s career to know how reliable his narrator, Kvothe, is, but this question cannot be forgotten when the protagonist/narrator was born into a family of actors and performers, and admits to using such skills throughout the narrative.

There are only a few nagging points about this otherwise impressive novel. At times, Kvothe just happens to have knowledge of everything. Whatever crosses his path, he seems to know something about it. While the novel is approximately 900 pages, only on one or two occasions does Rothfuss become too indulgent with the details. Otherwise, the story is just the right length, it is a story one does not want to end as Rothfuss does a wonderful job of immersing the reader in Kvothe’s world and with Kvothe.

Where will The Name of the Wind stand at year’s end and over the next few years in the genre? At least for this year, Rothfuss has set the bar very high for any other author publishing their first novel in 2007. As for where the book will stand in the years to come, it will likely stand as the start of one of the bright careers in fantasy fiction. Suffice it to say, the book is very good and has all the elements of greatness – characters with which the reader can empathize, a fascinating backdrop where these characters live, and the key ingredient: leaving the reader wanting for more. Since this is just the first book in a trilogy, that want will be met.

Mark / Hobbit

 

[Tomau]

O, goodie, first time book club

I think that I could have enjoyed this book much more if I wasn't so put of off Kvothe.
I just didn't like him and was frequently rooting for him to fail. It's just that he's so perfect, he can do no wrong in anything he does (except women), and that was just extremely annoying for me. I liked him pretty much before he came to the University, but since than he became so arrogant and self impressed that it was hurtful to read (it's interesting that adult Kvothe who is telling the story thinks so much of himself in his younger days but when asked to tell the story, he's so reluctant to do that, even though he obviously enjoys it – false modesty or something really hurt him bad in the past ...or future!?).
The ending with the draccus seemed completely out of place, like "oh, lets kill a dragon so I can be the greatest hero ever". And I don't think he's acting according to his age, or rather all the people around him don't regard him that way. He's 15, how intimidating can he be?! All of the story seemed to elevate Kvothe's grandness.
There're some things that I did enjoy, like writing style which very much agreed with me and the story about Chandrian was interesting, but it was so sparse that it almost seemed insignificant.
The best part of the book, for me, was when Elodin told him to jump of the roof, and he did it. It shows that he can be stupid and naive, that he is after all just a human and left me hoping for more (it certainly made me like Elodin much more).
IMO, there's a lot of similarity between this book and Harry Potter, that sometimes I've got the feeling I was reading Harry Potter and the University, or something like that.
His an orphan whose parents are killed by mighty magician or whatever he is (aka Voldemort) and he's set for revenge. But now, Harry/ Kvothe is improved version, being smarter and more perfect in every sense. And still there's all set of similar characters, but with different names: there is Ron (aka Sim) but now Kvothe got his red hair; though there is no Hermione, Kvothe has her brain, and Wil is somewhat similar to Hermione in being more serious and sensible one of his two friends. And still we have Malfoy (aka Ambrose) as his sworn enemy, Snape (aka Hemme) the teacher who dislikes him and in a way even Dumbledore (aka Elodin) as his corky mentor.
And for the record I do like Harry Potter but was disappointed with how the series ended or rather with the last book (and a little bit with book 5 and 6).
That said, I will pick up the next book, cause I think the story didn't even started yet and I think it can be a great one, once Kvothe gets over his puberty phase and grows up (me hope).

 

[BrightStar]

When I first read the synopsis of this book, I didn't have all that high hopes for it being that good. It sounded like it might be a "quest" book, or at worst, just a collection of random boastful tales from an flawless main character. The idea of reading about Kvothe's childhood, and his time at university didn't really appeal to me. If a story features a character's childhood, then it's usually cliche and full of predictable tragedies. If the main character spends any time at university, then he's likely to be a natural genius.

If I'd bothered to read up a bit more on the book before I'd brought it, I probably wouldn't have even bothered to buy it. It didn't sound very original at all, and I really only began reading it a few weeks back because I knew it was coming up for discussion here soon, and I figured I might as well start it and get it out the way.

It's nice to be proven wrong. The Name of the Wind is actually an odd book, because much of it almost seems very unoriginal. What works for me though is that I like Kvothe, and I do find him to be a very human character. Kvothe's constant struggle against poverty is what really, really works for me. The majority of his conflicts are not simply petty arrogance on his part, but arise from genuine threats. And this adds a sense of originality to a story arc that I've seen done many times before.

To me, Kvothe's story feels like the story of a real person, because it has such moments of sheer despair followed by the most unlikely glimmers of hope. When we begin Kvothe's story, we are told that he is a legend of sorts. I found it hard, at first, to really believe that the Kvothe that we meet at the beginning of the book is the legend that everyone has made of him. What I find so interesting now, as Kvothe reveals his story, is how truth became legend. How, for example, he became known as "Kvothe the bloodless". For me, as I've read through the book, I've fallen more and more into the belief that yes, this character could really have become a legend in his world.

What surprised me about this book is how much it's made me laugh out loud. To me, the interactions between characters, and the general misunderstandings that occur between humans is portrayed quite realistically.

Spoiler

One of my favorite scenes (like Tomau mentioned) was when Elodin told Kvothe to jump off the roof. And he did it.

I was so surprised by the outcome of that, because obvioulsy you realize "that was a stupid thing to do", but at the time it seemed like such a logical thing to do. Kvothe's narration of his story is such that his motivations, no matter how utterly bizzare and insane, always seem so totally reasonable at the time.

My only dissapointment with this book is in its size (big and heavy paperback which makes reading painful after any amount of time) and the fact that the next book isn't out until next year (I think?) and the third in the series not until a year after that. (Unless I'm wrong) It's good to know that the books are written (I think?) and that the release date is unlikely to change much, but I feel rather frustrated by how long I'm being told to wait. With a story like this, the less chance a reader has to forget the plot, the better and more likely they are to stick with the story.

 

[Zedar]

I agree to a large extent with Tomau. I think I fell victim to the hype here, hearing about how this was a great novel etc. Then when I actually read the book, it was nothing special. It was well written definitely, I think I read it in about 4 days or so, but when I finished it I thought, "so what?"

It didn't really seem to go anywhere, and nothing much really seemed to happen. The whole Chandrian thing, which I gather is supposed to be the main storyline, never played a particularly prominent role, and was such a minor sideline I didn't even get interested when it did come to the front. Kvothe himself was likable enough, if rather irritatingly overconfident. His friends and teachers, however, didn't seem to exist except as obstacles or admirers for Kvothe, which could have been deliberate, since it was supposed to be about him, but at least a bit of depth might have been nice.

I'm being more critical here than I mean to be I think. I did enjoy the book while I was reading it, which is the important thing. However, I don't think I'll be picking up the sequel, as this one never hooked me and I don't particularly care what happens next.

 

[BrightStar]

I finished it about an hour ago.

The last hundred pages felt like a bit of a drag to me. The whole thing with the dracus just felt pointless, and was perhaps the first time in the entire book where I felt Kvothe's motivations were not as immediately logical as they had been previously. All in all, it was quite a lengthy chunk, and I'm struggling to see how it's going to have any relevance to anything else at all. It just felt out of place. A means for Kvothe to be heroic, though there never was any need to beat us over the head with the issue.

A minor niggle I have with the book as well is that sometimes it feels almost like the author is teasing me. Let's take, for example, the whole dracus scene:

Spoiler

I swear, I read that entire segment expecting a tragedy to happen. Now, don't get me wrong - I didn't WANT anything bad to happen to Denna because I like the relationshp between her and Kvothe and hope to see it develop further, but when Kvothe first mentions the dracus, I'm almost certain that he hints very strongly that something awful is going to happen to her.

So she rather stupidly about manages to overdose herself, but in the end, nothing bad actually happens to her really. And I feel cheated by Kvothe because obviously, as the narrator of his story, he KNOWS this, but I swear he was leading me along and had me expecting that something terrible was going to happen.

And, that particular scene isn't the only incident where I've felt Kvothe has gone a bit too far with trying to make things sound more dramatic than they actually are. I felt that the technique made the writing seem a little less confident than it should be. Like the author feels that he needs to throw the reader little tidbits of information, or else they won't keep reading. I can almost here him saying sometimes: "You have to keep reading because of this really big, terrible event that's just waiting to happen."

I have the nagging worry that although book one was good, and I expect book two to also be enjoyable, book three might be a let down. The reason why I think this is because of the interludes of third person narrative. It almost leaves me feeling that there seems to be something going off in the present which will need to be cleared up before the series can come to a proper conclusion. I worry that book three will be too much in the "now" and not so much in the past anymore, and then perhaps there won't be all that much unique or different about the story. I find Rothfuss' first person narrative to be excellent, but his third is not of such high quality and I think anything more than a few chapters written with that point of view would spoil my enjoyment of the book.

 

[Eventine]

I also felt the dracus sub plot was an immense waste of time. I was really disappointed when the book didn't end with Kvothe being expelled from the university - it seemed the logical point at which to break up the story. Instead, we were left hanging at a strange point within the tale having just wasted a sizable chunk of the novel reading about a sub plot that did very little to advance the story. Too much of Rothfuss' effort seems to be around maintaining the status quo (i.e. poverty) around Kvothe to maintain tension, but in the end it just gets tiring. If the dracus sub plot had resolved in Kvothe actually having enough mony to stay in uni or live comfortably, I maybe could've accepted it. As it stands it seems to me to have been a very expensive (in terms of page count) way to give a character a drug addiction (which considering the character could've been done much more simply) and set us up for more episodes of Kvothe displaying his brilliance to win some last minute cash and remain at the university.

OK. Spleen vented. Let me continue. Perhaps part of the disappointment I've discussed above stems from the hype and buzz around this novel ( I use the term hype due to the cover letter included on the arcs of the novel - mentioned in Rob's review). I usually try and come at a book from an objective stance in these situations, but this novel, like The Lies of Locke Lamora or most other "Must Read Release of the Year" type books, simply can't live up to expectations. There were aspects to this story I really enjoyed - the story within the story and switch of viewpoints were well done, as was the exploration of the nature of legend. I found Kvothe little grating, but not to the extent some people here did. The real dampener for me was a sub plot that appears to have done very little to push th story along followed by a weak ending - I started to use the term cliff hanger there and then and realised it was inappropriate - the ending seems more to have been determined by some other arbitary means like page count.

One other thing I enjoyed towards the end:

Spoiler

The bar room fight scene where it looks like Kvothe tries to use magic and nothing happens. I'm really, really, really hoping that it means the Kvothe telling the story is making up a heap of BS - that would fit very well within the themes of the novel of story telling and legends.

So in summary: Good themes. Nice prose. Average protagonist. Dastardly sub plot and ending.

 

[BrightStar]

That's a good point about the dracus subplot, Eventine. The biggest fault of the dracus thing was that it meant for what seemed to be a very weak ending. I kinda figured by the time I was a quarter of the way through the book that the ending was not going to be all neat and tidy, but I did expect the book to finish at what felt like a logical place, not sort of randomly in the middle of nowhere.

Spoiler

I too had felt that him being expelled from the university would be a logical place to end book one. Kvothe has told us so many times that it happens (and now practically told us *who* is to blame as well) I feel somewhat as though when it does happen, the impact of the event will have been spoiled for me.

As it stands, the effect of the ending on me was not particularly effective. The last few chapters (after the bar room fight) are something of a blur to me - things just wind down until the book eventually finishes. Dissapointing.

I have my concerns that perhaps the author is trying to introduce too many stories into one book. He has Kvothe narrating his tale, and then seems almost to be setting up a story that's to take place in the now. I worry both of them will become too big and there won't be enough room for the both of them.

The bar room fight raised some promisng questions though.

Spoiler

Why can't Kvothe use magic anymore? Also, Bast mentions that Kvothe's music is a painful topic for him, and it is no longer part of Kvothe's life - almost as though he has, at some point in the past, lost it somehow. What happened?

I find myself very eager to learn the answers to those questions, so I'll certainly be picking up the next book.

 

[Gilgamesh]

I find myself very eager to learn the answers to those questions, so I'll certainly be picking up the next book.

Me too...
It's a long wait, though!

 

[Tomau]

I really think that I wouldn't bother to read this book, if I wasn't intrigued by the various praises that it was getting on amazon, forums etc.
Cause when I read synopsis, starting I have stolen princesses back from sleeping barrow kings. I burned down the town of Trebon. I have spent the night with Felurian and left with both my sanity and my life. I was expelled from the University at a younger age than most people are allowed in. I tread paths by moonlight that others fear to speak of during day. I have talked to Gods, loved women, and written songs that make the minstrels weep.
You may have heard of me.
I thought why would I want to read something like this? It sounded like some sort of children fairytale. And I had all sort of premises about going into this book.
I can't say that I was bored with the book (I did read it in about 4-5 days and that was during the work week), but that I was constantly annoyed with it, especially Kvothe. I think I would like it more if it was written whole in third person, cause I can't understand how someone can talk (think - yes, but not talk) so highly of himself. I feel I could tolerate it more than.
I felt that author lead me on with tiny bits of informations and in the end he didn't deliver, so I felt cheated.
I, too, was expecting that story will end with Kvothe being expelled from the University, cause that felt like a good ending. Cause when you think on it, he actually was expelled but council revoked that decision immediately, so I think that he maybe won't be expelled at all in the end, but will leave for some other reason.
I felt that story ended just when things started to get interesting, when Elodin became his mentor (cause he is really one character that I wont to know more about).
(I'm not sure if it's necessary to use spoiler tags cause I think that I don't know how to use them.)

 

[Hobbit]

And I forgot to put my thoughts on the book in (doh!) from May 2007 (seems like ages ago!)

How often is it when you pick a book up meaning to try the first few pages, but keep reading until you’ve read a hundred pages?

In my case, not as often as it used to. There have actually been very few in recent years. Lies of Locke Lamora was one. ASH:A Secret History was another. The Name of the Wind is the latest.

It isn’t perfect. It does have flaws, more of which later. But it has so many plusses. And for a debut novel it is very impressive.

The story is told as a tale within a tale; the recounting to a chronicler of the lead character’s life-story from his early childhood to adolescence. Kvothe is a boy-genius whose parents run a travelling-circus troupe. From a very early age he is trained in circus skills, theatrical techniques, slight of hand and playing the lyre - skills no doubt useful to Kvothe’s future life and plot development. With the arrival of Ben Abenthy, a typically grumpy mentor, he adds a knowledge of science, magic (here referred to as ‘sympathy’) and chemistry. And being a child genius, he absorbs all of this like a sponge by his early teenage years.

The world turns, and as is often the case, Kvothe’s happy childhood is overturned. He finds himself without a family, destitute and begging on the streets of the city of Tarbean. This is clearly a character-building situation and is difficult yet simultaneously the making of Kvothe. Eventually Kvothe manages to better himself and make his way to the university city of Imre. Schooling in the subjects of sympathy, engineering and medicine, Kvothe makes friends and enemies amongst the staff and students at the University and supplements his tuition by playing the lute at the nearby Arts theatre. He falls in love with a mysterious woman and then loses her.

In essence this story takes over 600 pages to unfold.

Reading such a brief outline gives the initial idea that we have read this story before. It is a rite of passage novel, a story with a young hero whose genius leaves him destined for greater things, a quest novel, a romance… many of these aspects have been covered before. But what Rothfuss does supremely well here is that these oft-used fantasy elements and combine them skilfully into a riveting plot.

The places are also familiar: universities with decrepit buildings and hidden rooms, rooftop hideaways, waystones with special meaning, mountains. The world building is quite impressive, though, as the book is predominantly from a first-person narrative, not too broad. The visual also has a sense of history: something which will appeal to many readers.

The book also taps into many of the basic emotions used by fantasy archetypes: love, hate, revenge, loss, jealousy.

All of these elements should resonate with fans of the genre, and will I suspect make the book popular, in the same way that Star Wars took well known elements of SF and Fantasy and made them popular, or JK Rowling wrote in the Harry Potter books.

The characterisation is interesting. Like Rowling, there are a range of good and bad archetypes – the grumpy mentor, the loving parents, the mean school-bully with more money than sense, the selfless charity worker – so that Rothfuss needs to spend less time on character development and can emphasise plot and pace more. That’s not to say that there isn’t character development – Kvothe’s character is, in turns, naïve, omnipotent, arrogant, self-absorbed and mercurial. Whilst feeling a little annoyed myself that the lead character is so adept (can he find everything so easy?), Rothfuss tempers this by having him make mistakes.

The other characters in the book also have flaws; though whether these are real flaws or just the perception of a young Kvothe, may be explained in later books.

The ending was surprisingly quick, though clearly a useful place to stop before the second book.

In summary, an impressive debut with old-style resonance. Not as stylish as Scott Lynch’s Locke Lamora, nor as ‘in-your-face’ as Hal Duncan’s Book of all Days, this leisurely romantic debut has a timeless aspect that suggests it will become a favourite for many.

Rob Bedford’s review of this book is HERE.

Hobbit, May 2007

Looking back over this, there are other things that I now realise should/could've been mentioned. Kvothe's reliability as a teller of tales is rather variable, as some have mentioned above. Like Gene Wolfe's tales (Shadow of the Torturer springs to mind) the perspective of a tale from one person is often fraught with irregularities and inconsistencies. Like Vance, I'd like to think that those aspects of the tale that seem to have annoyed so many are deliberate. Like most genii, Kvothe has a singleminded selfishness that at times can be very annoying.

To answer Tomau's point I think one of the reasons for the book's success is that it taps into those elements of myth resonant with fantasy readers: like a child's fairytale, it uses our ideas of myth and legend to tell a tale. And like, say Feist's Magician or Eddings work or Terry Brooks' Shannara, as a result it makes it recognisable and readable.

The other point to remind people perhaps is that this is only the first part of the tale. I am hoping that some of those difficulties already mentioned by some are resolved in future books. For a debut novel, I stiill think that Name of the Wind is very good indeed!

Mark / Hobbit

 

[Amaunette]

It didn't really seem to go anywhere, and nothing much really seemed to happen. The whole Chandrian thing, which I gather is supposed to be the main storyline, never played a particularly prominent role, and was such a minor sideline I didn't even get interested when it did come to the front.

I also wanted to hear much more about the Chandrian storyline, but you need to keep in mind that this is a trilogy. The Chandrian storyline is probably a major arc, and we're only getting the foundations of it in the first book. The point of the first book is to develop Kvothe's character, not to set up a 15(?)-year-old boy against an ancient crowd of bad guys. Without training, pitting Kvothe against the Chandrian right away would be laughable, and Kvothe himself notes that he has no chance. A lot of the things Kvothe does are motivated by finding out more about the Chandrian - the Chandrian menace is the catalyst underneath a lot of the bad things that happen to Kvothe (and sometimes more than just the catalyst).

Regarding the bar fight scene:

Spoiler

I think the reason Kvothe can't use magic is that he is becoming the guy he is pretending to be, a regular person. It's similar to the second Spiderman movie - you are what you repeatedly do, as many wise men have mentioned. I think Bast also implies that something happened to Kvothe to keep him from doing magic, but I can't remember what.

And lastly, the draccus sub plot, while largely uninteresting (and also motivated by Kvothe's curiosity about the Chandrian, I would note) is kind of necessary. Here you have an entire book about Kvothe becoming a great hero (or bad guy, depending on who you ask). But the story takes place in school, doing small scale things, and it needs to end with a bang. The draccus subplot was that manufactured ending.

It may be obvious from my defenses of the weak points of the novel, but I really enjoyed this book. I think it's been a few months since I read it, and I still think about it often. I am sort of disappointed that it's only a trilogy, because I think there's so much about the world that could be developed that we'll never get the chance to see.

 

[Gilgamesh]

I can't understand how someone can talk (think - yes, but not talk) so highly of himself.

He he! You should read the The First Law trilogy of Joe Abercrombie. You'll love "The Navigator".

 

[Gilgamesh]

I think the draccus sub plot is a perfect example of how someone can become legendary without real merit. Kvothe caused something catastrophic trying to do good. At the end he landed on his 4 feet, very luckily and he walked away as a superhero from a burning village... From "someone who thinks/talks so highly of himself" (as some of us think), this is a surprising revelation and a good example that he lays out the truth behind the myth.

 

[Tomau]

Well, Gilgamesh, I have read The Blade Itself, and I've found that the Navigator was one really comic character, and even he said that he has many talents but fighting is not one of them. I liked him, he was funny. I think Jezal was more annoying one, cause he is a pompous ass, but it's also funny cause everybody know that he is one and he's not even aware of that.
But, with Kvothe there seems to be no fault: when he plays lute everybody cry and melt from joy, when he buys a horse he seems to know everything about horses even though he never owned a race horse, he's the best actor, there's no course in the University he didn't excel at, he knows all about that drug that Denna took...
That I found annoying, that he seems to know EVERYTHING and is BEST at everything.

 

[Gilgamesh]

That I found annoying, that he seems to know EVERYTHING and is BEST at everything.

I disagree with that...
In a previous discussion I gave example where this was not correct...

- He is not street smart, until he learned to survive in the streets
- He got duped by Ambriose more than once
- He still underestimates him
- He doesn't understand women (well... who can, really?) and his love life sucks (so he definitely isn't a James Bond)
- Despite his cleverness, it takes him veeeery longtime to figure out a way to get in the library
- He becomes popular thanks to some things that are very luckily happen to be: he doesn't faint nor bleed when whipped, or like in the draccus story, or when he meets the two thugs hired by Ambriose, or when he almost kills himself by jumping from the building stupidly just because his future-master asked him so... etc... etc...
- You say he knows everything about the horses but he doesn't notice that the horse he's buying is not a full black stallion.
- Etc.

I think Kvothe is far from being perfect. I'm not even sure if I can call him "smart". He's extremely intelligent and is probably the fastest learner in the world . But he definitely has his weaknesses.

So, if I may, I have the impression that your judgment is clouded by the fact that you don't like his character.

 

[BrightStar]

I think the draccus sub plot is a perfect example of how someone can become legendary without real merit. Kvothe caused something catastrophic trying to do good. At the end he landed on his 4 feet, very luckily and he walked away as a superhero from a burning village... From "someone who thinks/talks so highly of himself" (as some of us think), this is a surprising revelation and a good example that he lays out the truth behind the myth.

I agree that the subplot was perhaps a good way for the author to show how he became a legend, but it did feel a bit forced. Merely to prove a point rather than to actually work in the overal plot. I already felt that Kvothe had already proven himself well enough, and there didn't need to be additional proof given.

I can see why some people might not like Kvothe. I found him to be a very believable character, so he didn't bother me too much. He's likeable, and flawed enough to be able to claim my sympathy. He does have something of an over-confidence about himself that can grate a bit on my nerves at times: he didn't seem to pause and hesitate much before dealing with that dracus, and that kinda bugged me a little.

Most of Kvothe's strengths do seem quite believable. It's not like he's a genius but has grown up without reading a single book. He's good at a lot of things because he's had the opportunity to become good at them. Sometimes it irritates me that he seems to be immediately perfect at things, but I think he's flawed enough in other areas for it to feel like there's a fair balance.

I think Tomau does have a point though.

But, with Kvothe there seems to be no fault: when he plays lute everybody cry and melt from joy, when he buys a horse he seems to know everything about horses even though he never owned a race horse, he's the best actor, there's no course in the University he didn't excel at, he knows all about that drug that Denna took...

Okay, so I'd expect him to be talented at playing the lute. But I am starting to get rather annoyed with fantasy books in general, where a character can bring entire audiances to sobbing wrecks. It felt a bit too much, in my opinion, to expect the reader to believe that everyone there would be affected by the music in that way.

You might have a point about the horse. As Gilgamesh points out, he still got duped a bit, though that was more due to the animal's coloring rather than it's actual quality. Still, whilst I find it very plausible that Kvothe would be able to spot a "good" horse, I don't find it quite so believable that he could spot a "super" horse. Maybe all the others were just really, really bad and this one particular animal was super good or something? Also, I know Kvothe's been around horses as a child, and it's perfectly understandable that he'd know a lot about them (because their proper care would be an important consideration) but it's been a long while since he rode a horse, or took care of one, and I guess if I want to be picky, one thing I could say is that he did seem to adapt very quickly to being able to ride, and knowing how to handle it and take care of it. You'd think he'd been handling horse's barely a week ago, not years ago.

His knowledge of the drug Denna took was a bit questionable. How does he know so much? Sure, he might have heard of it, but he seemed almost to have the knowledge of someone that deals with addicts on a regular basis.

As Gilgamesh does point out though, there are equal things that he's not good at.

- He is not street smart, until he learned to survive in the streets
- He got duped by Ambriose more than once
- He still underestimates him
- He doesn't understand women (well... who can, really?) and his love life sucks (so he definitely isn't a James Bond)
- Despite his cleverness, it takes him veeeery longtime to figure out a way to get in the library
- He becomes popular thanks to some things that are very luckily happen to be: he doesn't faint nor bleed when whipped, or like in the draccus story, or when he meets the two thugs hired by Ambriose, or when he almost kills himself by jumping from the building stupidly just because his future-master asked him so... etc... etc...

Some things he has to learn about, like any "normal" person (like becoming street smart).

However, one thing I can say about him and women:

Spoiler

although he doesn't understand them and doesn't have much confidence about being around them, they still fall for him. Denna certainly seems to have a thing for him, and that girl from the fire as well. So, whilst he himself might not be aware of their attraction towards him, it is still there. His relationship with Denna is mostly flawed by his lack of confidence in himself, not in his ability to wow the girls. He might not believe he's doing it, but I'd say he has no problems with wowing them. That I find to be kinda annoying.

Still being picky here, I also thought that he made friends very quickly, and immediately seemed unable to do any wrong with dealing with them and being a good friend. Someone who has been as isolated as he has - I don't know, I epected dealing with people to be something that would be harder for him than it actually was.

 

[Ademona]

Okay, so I'd expect him to be talented at playing the lute. But I am starting to get rather annoyed with fantasy books in general, where a character can bring entire audiances to sobbing wrecks. It felt a bit too much, in my opinion, to expect the reader to believe that everyone there would be affected by the music in that way

I don't really find this all that unbelievable. Then again, I have been known to get a little weepy listening to corny country music songs Someone else also mentioned that this kind of performance music would be a main source of entertainment for people. Looking at it this way, it doesn't seem quite as unlikely that people would be so powerfully affected.

His knowledge of the drug Denna took was a bit questionable. How does he know so much? Sure, he might have heard of it, but he seemed almost to have the knowledge of someone that deals with addicts on a regular basis.

I was under the impression that he picked this knowledge up during his three years on the streets. I know he mentions a couple observations of "sweet eaters" (is this the right term?) in the city.

(Sorry, no time for a thorough post. I don't know why, but they tend to frown upon this kind of thing at work.)

 

[Gilgamesh]

I was under the impression that he picked this knowledge up during his three years on the streets.

I think that's correct. He keeps thinking about this girl who undressed totally in the streets on a cold day just to get the little money that a sailor promised her...

 

[BrightStar]

He keeps thinking about this girl who undressed totally in the streets on a cold day just to get the little money that a sailor promised her...

Oh, right. I'd forgotten about that. That scene might have given him a good idea as to how powerful the drug's addiction is over people, but I still find it a little questionable that he'd know as much as he does; particularly with regards to the symptoms and such.

But then, I'm just being picky. It never bothered me at all whilst I was reading, and it isn't that unbelievable that he would know such things - just a little questionable that he would know as much as he does.

 

[Tomau]

I think Kvothe is far from being perfect. I'm not even sure if I can call him "smart". He's extremely intelligent and is probably the fastest learner in the world . But he definitely has his weaknesses.

So, if I may, I have the impression that your judgment is clouded by the fact that you don't like his character.

Well, you may, and you do have a point there. But that doesn't make Kvothe any less annoying for me.
And, if I may,in the opposite, that maybe your judgment is clouded by the fact that you do like his character.

It's just that we know very little about what Kvote actually learned at the University and elsewhere, so when he comes all knowingly...well you get the point.
And you must admit that he 'almost' always beat the odds. Like broken lute string, that fight against attackers, when he beats that student at that contest who will first light up the candle...