What if... LOTR

Cirdan

Cirdan

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After watching a re-run of the LOTR movies I started thinking about events in the books that could turn the story if something else had happened.

The first What If is regarding the bridge in Moria.
What if Gandalf had NOT fallen of the bridge with the Balrog but stayed with the Fellowship?

I don't believe it would have changed much even though many consider this as a pivotal event.
All the following events would still have played out the same way. Lorien would be no different, the journey to Rauros would be the same and the Fellowship would still be attacked by the Urukhai/Orks. Boromir would still go crazy. Frodo would still believe that the Ring would corrupt everybody and the only way would be to go alone so Sam would join him. Maybe Pippin and Merry would not be captured and maybe the Fellowship would then follow Frodo, but most likely the decision would still be the same as the one Aragorn made.
Having Gandalf join hunt with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli would hardly change the outcome. And then everything follows the origanal story as this is basically the time when Gandalf is back.
Maybe Treebeard decides to kill Merry and Pippin since he cannot talk to the White Wizard about it. This will change a lot of events later, but again maybe he doesn't.
The only other wild card I see is Gandalf remaining the Grey and not becomming the White. But what difference this could have I have no idea.

Any thoughts on this?
 
Cirdan said:
The only other wild card I see is Gandalf remaining the Grey and not becomming the White. But what difference this could have I have no idea.
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Might have made a difference in his confrontation with the Witch King during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. He may also not have had the ability to break Saruman's spell over Theoden.
 
Did Gandalf not become more powerful when he became Gandalf the White i.e. assuming Saruman's role. It has been a while since I read the books and may be confusing the movies, which I have recently been rewatching, with the novels. Seems to me every thing that happened needed to happen - As you pointed out Tree Beard may have dispatched the young Hobbits and the Ents never gone off to war which was rather pivotal. The old pebble starting an avalanche theme.
 
And from a pure story-telling standpoint, Gandalf the Gray dying removes his wisdom and comforting presence, both from the Fellowship and from the reader. It keeps him from becoming a convenient deus ex machina, and snaps the reader to attention -- if Gandalf can die halfway through the first book of the trilogy, nobody is safe.
 
What if Gollum isn't around at the end in Mt. Doom? Does Sam have a chance of snapping Frodo out of it and convincing him to do the right thing? Does he have the strength to force Frodo to complete the quest? Or possibly even kill Frodo to do so?
 
The Balrog hissing at Gandalf is one of my favorite parts and Gandalf saying ... you shall not pass, I love it. But I also love that Gandalf doesn't just fall, he's still got to kill the Balrog. So he goes and get his sword and gets to work. It's a great message about life, never give up.
 
More to the point, what if Tolkien had kept Gandalf dead? How would that have affected things?
 
Werthead said:
More to the point, what if Tolkien had kept Gandalf dead? How would that have affected things?
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Well, Gandalf the White played a huge part in the victories of Helm's Deep and Pelennor Fields. Without him, it's likely that one or both of those battles would have been lost, and perhaps Sauron would have conquered. However, maybe Frodo could still have reached Mount Doom?
 
What if Bilbo had lost the one ring shortly after finding it? Would there even have been a LOTR? Then we could complain about all the Terry Brooks clones.
 
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What if Faramir decided the throne of Gondor was rightfully his and not Aragorn's? We are talking civil war.
 
Gandalf's new "reincarnation" as a White Wizard does add to his power immensely. Think of what he was able to do to befuddle and confuse enemy troops at both Helm's Deep and Minis Tirith.

Gollum's part was essential to getting the ring into the "fiery chasm from whence it came." As Gandalf said, "The pity of Bilbo has saved many." (I don't remember his exact words, but that was the gist of it.)

What if Tolkien had kept his original plot idea and had Aragorn wed to Eowyn? (You will find that in the rough drafts in one of the volumes ofHistory of Middle Earth
.)

What if Boromir had lived?
What if Aragorn had been unable to convince the ghostly troops to help him?
 
Gandalf the Grey was indeed powerful. His strength was noted in that he was a prominent figure in driving out Sauron from his fortress in Mirkwood. However, in order for Gandalf to combat Sauron's growing power, he had to become something more powerful. Thus, the events as they played out seemed tragic at the time; devastating to the forces of the light, but in the end helped ensure the vanquishing of the forces of darkness.

In the Gollum plot thread - it was ultimately Bilbo that ensured that the Light would achieve victory. Bilbo, and Frodo, and Sam, and Gollum. Those four proved that the small and weak can do big things; world changing things.
 
Response to Fred

Fred Gallney said:
In the Gollum plot thread - it was ultimately Bilbo that ensured that the Light would achieve victory. Bilbo, and Frodo, and Sam, and Gollum. Those four proved that the small and weak can do big things; world changing things.
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I would add small, weak, and evil creatures can do big things. There are a lot of so called evil people in this world that by their actions have actually improved the lot of humanity. Selfish ambition is often looked down on, but in reality it is the backbone of our society and should be nourished in order to maintain forward progress.

mesthersherman.com
 
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