Elizabeth Moon - Deed of Paksenarrion

[Heather Myst]

Pasadena

I found the books to be VERY slow and boring. The writing was not bad but the pace was so slow and the plot had very little in the way of action, twists, or character development. I think I rated it one or two stars out of five on Amazon. It had many positive reviews so maybe it was just me but there is no way I would recommend this series to anyone.

 

[Hobbit]

That's cool, PW: I met Ms Moon and chatted in Glasgow in 2005. She was very, very nice, but I wouldn't like to mess her about! I'm sure she was good for you though.

Heather: yeah, sometimes your view can be different to the majority. It is allowed, though.

Some have found them a tad predictable and yes, a bit slow; others have loved the characterisation, though they are a tad cliched and perhaps the softer end of the Fantasy scale, methinks. Not quite Conan, nor The Ten Thousand.

Mark

 

[Garyfury]

I loved the series; still do, and I'm looking forward to its continuation.

It's a little less sophisticated than some of the things I read these days, but that's fine.

Paksenarrion is just too perfect. And in her world, good always wins over evil.

The way I interpret it, the series is about how a perfect hero becomes perfect, and that's a worthwhile story to tell once.

The thing is, good didn't always win over evil; Paks' ordeal in the second book not only turned out very badly for her, but led into a long stretch of hardship.

And the way she comes to triumph in the end is hugely atypical for a fantasy adventure.

 

[PeterWilliam]

The way I interpret it, the series is about how a perfect hero becomes perfect, and that's a worthwhile story to tell once.

The thing is, good didn't always win over evil; Paks' ordeal in the second book not only turned out very badly for her, but led into a long stretch of hardship.

And the way she comes to triumph in the end is hugely atypical for a fantasy adventure.

I knew that the story had hooked me, but could never define why. Excellent description!

 

[NickeeCoco]

I read your interview, Peter. It was nice to actually get a bit of the author's voice. As for your agreement with the last comment, I concur! That's exactly what it's about.

After reading through this thread, I now want to buy the individual books. I read the omnibus, and now I want to see what these, if even minimal, changes are about.

I received my ordered copy of her Legacy of Gird the other day and I'm excited to start it once I've finished some other books first. Anyone read it? Thoughts?

 

[sithren]

I read your interview, Peter. It was nice to actually get a bit of the author's voice. As for your agreement with the last comment, I concur! That's exactly what it's about.

After reading through this thread, I now want to buy the individual books. I read the omnibus, and now I want to see what these, if even minimal, changes are about.

I received my ordered copy of her Legacy of Gird the other day and I'm excited to start it once I've finished some other books first. Anyone read it? Thoughts?

I've only read Surrender None. That book was great. It pretty much describes the transformation of Gird 'the man' into Gird the 'legend.' I guess you could argue that the Deeds of Paksenarrion does much the same thing for Paks. Its a story of an ordinary person transforming into something extra-ordinary.

Moon did a great job of capturing the day to day fears of the peasantry and of how Gird comes to terms with his life, until events force him ...well i leave that for you to discover.

I'd say that if you enjoyed Deeds of Paks at all, then Surrender None will be just as enjoyable. As for Liar's Oath, I never did pick that one up. My brother was a big fan of Deeds and Surrender None, and did read Liar's Oath. He read it to the end but did not enjoy it as much as the others. So I ended up skipping it.

 

[NickeeCoco]

I've only read Surrender None. That book was great. It pretty much describes the transformation of Gird 'the man' into Gird the 'legend.' I guess you could argue that the Deeds of Paksenarrion does much the same thing for Paks. Its a story of an ordinary person transforming into something extra-ordinary.

Awesome. I love those types of stories and was the reason I loved Paks.

Moon did a great job of capturing the day to day fears of the peasantry and of how Gird comes to terms with his life, until events force him ...well i leave that for you to discover.

Well, I know the gist of it. It is explained in Paks, even if not in detail.

I'd say that if you enjoyed Deeds of Paks at all, then Surrender None will be just as enjoyable. As for Liar's Oath, I never did pick that one up. My brother was a big fan of Deeds and Surrender None, and did read Liar's Oath. He read it to the end but did not enjoy it as much as the others. So I ended up skipping it.

Good. I'm now really looking forward to it. I'll read Liar's Oath. I have the two books in a single trade paper edition.

 

[sithren]

Well, I know the gist of it. It is explained in Paks, even if not in detail.

Yeah, having read Deeds you will pretty much know the broad strokes. There won't be a lot of surprises. In fact, Gird's story very much parallels Paks' own story. You maybe even could make an argument that Paks is the "second coming" of Gird or at least a new saint of the high lord, much like Gird is.

In the end, I think you will like Surrender None.

 

[NickeeCoco]

You maybe even could make an argument that Paks is the "second coming" of Gird or at least a new saint of the high lord, much like Gird is.

While I never imagined her as the second coming, I did always view her as a new saint.

 

[sithren]

While I never imagined her as the second coming, I did always view her as a new saint.

Yeah, that was quite a reach. It would be hard to make a case for it, I guess I was just struck by the similarities of the two stories. Your review of Deeds in another thread makes me want to read them over again. I always loved the series and its up there with my favourites.

 

[NickeeCoco]

Yeah, that was quite a reach. It would be hard to make a case for it, I guess I was just struck by the similarities of the two stories. Your review of Deeds in another thread makes me want to read them over again. I always loved the series and its up there with my favourites.

My boyfriend is reading them now. He's on book two and he loves it.

I'm about a 1/4 of the way through Surrender None, now. I have to say, since I do know the gist of the story, I keep on waiting for it to happen. I think knowing what's going to happen hampers my reading. I'm waiting expectantly as opposed to enjoying the story as it goes along. However, Moon has done an excellent job of making me dislike the whole serf system. And of course the lord is a follower of Liart. She really likes torture, doesn't she?

Edit: Could a moderator fix the title of this thread? It should read PaKSenarrion, not PaSKenarrion.

 

[sithren]

My boyfriend is reading them now. He's on book two and he loves it.

I'm about a 1/4 of the way through Surrender None, now. I have to say, since I do know the gist of the story, I keep on waiting for it to happen. I think knowing what's going to happen hampers my reading. I'm waiting expectantly as opposed to enjoying the story as it goes along. However, Moon has done an excellent job of making me dislike the whole serf system. And of course the lord is a follower of Liart. She really likes torture, doesn't she?

You know, I was thinking about this recently after reading your post about the series. I thought the exact same thing. Torture does play a big role in these books. I started thinking of what you wrote (that the violence in Moon's novels is not gratuitous). There is a reason for the violence, so there must be a reason for the torture. Right?

I think for Moon, torture is a catalytic agent of sorts. For Paks, torture, and her subsequent healing, is part of her "becoming."

For Gird, it is also a kind of beginning, that leads him on his path. Torture is kind of an agent of (for?) change, a trigger for their evolution. It would be interesting to see if Moon has ever been asked a question about this in her interviews.

 

[NickeeCoco]

I think for Moon, torture is a catalytic agent of sorts. For Paks, torture, and her subsequent healing, is part of her "becoming."

For Gird, it is also a kind of beginning, that leads him on his path. Torture is kind of an agent of (for?) change, a trigger for their evolution. It would be interesting to see if Moon has ever been asked a question about this in her interviews.

That would be interesting to see. I'm going to look into it.

And I think you're right, it is a kind of catalyst. For Paks, I think it's a type of "cleansing". She has to br stripped down, humiliated and mutilated in order for her to come to her own personal realization and be able to take on her role.

The god/demon of torture and his agents are also great oppositional antagonists for a paladin of Gird.

 

[E_Moon]

That would be interesting to see. I'm going to look into it.

And I think you're right, it is a kind of catalyst. For Paks, I think it's a type of "cleansing". She has to br stripped down, humiliated and mutilated in order for her to come to her own personal realization and be able to take on her role.

The god/demon of torture and his agents are also great oppositional antagonists for a paladin of Gird.

It's always fun to find my work discussed on another venue. Unfortunately, I need to disagree with you about the torture scene in Oath of Gold.
Paks is already a paladin by that point. She doesn't need cleansing or humiliation or anything like that (wrong theology for this group of books.) You might be interested in a similar discussion that took place on the Paksworld blog last week. This is a question that's come up repeatedly at conventions and in emails. The blog (and the site it's attached to) have a lot of other information about that world, how the new books are progressing, and so on. Come visit.

As for any difference between the separate volumes and the omnibus of the first three books...in the separate volumes, there was a little prologue to volume two, Divided Allegiance. We left it out of the omnibus for two reasons. First, that's a very fat omnibus and already pushing the budget. Second, with the books side by side, the prologue didn't read as well. There's no additional information in it. Most people who had read the Divided Allegiance prologue didn't miss it, but a few did.

 

[NickeeCoco]

It's always fun to find my work discussed on another venue. Unfortunately, I need to disagree with you about the torture scene in Oath of Gold.
Paks is already a paladin by that point. She doesn't need cleansing or humiliation or anything like that (wrong theology for this group of books.)

Well, colour me embarassed.

My background being Classics, I guess I always go overboard with my analyses of gods and ritual.

 

[PeterWilliam]

My background being Classics, I guess I always go overboard with my analyses of gods and ritual.

So many of us do (go overboard on analysis, that is), but, at the very least, its good exercise. I have an over-developed appreciation for analysis since I've recently been amidst an endeavor which relies upon several people. The short supply of analytical thought within the group, is a resource deficiency that has seen a majority share of the work left, solely, up to me.

While the largest glaring error among our species is the consideration of conclusive error (imo, which goes without saying...er, does it go with saying?), I would encourage you to keep up those grey matter push-ups. :thumbs up:

 

[NickeeCoco]

The short supply of analytical thought within the group, is a resource deficiency that has seen a majority share of the work left, solely, up to me.

That's the worst. I feel for ya on that one.

 

[E_Moon]

Well, colour me embarassed.

My background being Classics, I guess I always go overboard with my analyses of gods and ritual.

No need to be embarrassed. You should see the things I got slammed for in classes...(What I thought was a penetrating comment on Machiavelli got "I hardly think so, Miss N-" from the prof I'd thought to impress.)

Just thought it was important to point out, for unfamiliar readers, that a writer's purpose in writing difficult material may be very different than someone else's assumption.

My academic background included reading a LOT of classics (I was sucked in by Greek poets...and since I have little talent in learning foreign languages, had to fight my way through Latin and Greek classes with such effort that a lot of things stuck.

 

[NickeeCoco]

No need to be embarrassed. You should see the things I got slammed for in classes...(What I thought was a penetrating comment on Machiavelli got "I hardly think so, Miss N-" from the prof I'd thought to impress.)

Haha. I remember a paper I wrote connecting Protestant numerology to John Donne's Holy Sonnet 14. I believe the comment written at the bottom of the paper was "I don't believe it for a minute."

Just thought it was important to point out, for unfamiliar readers, that a writer's purpose in writing difficult material may be very different than someone else's assumption.

I don't blame ya. It's your work. And I, for one, am glad you did explain it. I'd much rather get the author's actual intention over my own assumption.

My academic background included reading a LOT of classics (I was sucked in by Greek poets...and since I have little talent in learning foreign languages, had to fight my way through Latin and Greek classes with such effort that a lot of things stuck.

I have to be honest, I hated my language classes. I mean, I liked being able to read works in their original language, but the discipline it took to memorize everything was tough. So much so that I decided to forego traditional uni courses and went over to Ireland to take intensive language courses. It covered two years of university language in eight weeks. Brutal, but I learned.

 

[dpgtfc]

Its on baen's site, so it can be downloaded, but its not free.

I thought it was ok, but after showing some weakness early on, Paksenarrion is just too perfect. And in her world, good always wins over evil.

Yeah, I still enjoyed it for what it was though. A fun, fluffy read.