A Sci Fi Reading Odyssey - 50 Novels

My conclusion is that recent work in comparison to ancient work means more to me.
Dan, that's fine. Why wouldn't it be? Tastes change, styles change. Each to their own and it is your own personal taste, which is ultimately what matters after all. It really doesn't matter what the rest of us think, but I suspect that like me they'll be interested in why you like this more recent work.

Just because no-one else mentions it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have our attention drawn to it - here at SFFWorld's where you get your chance after all.
 
Okay, the why:

As I remember it, Asimov's writing was always instructive. While I never was bright enough to parse them for myself, his Three Laws made sense to me. The original Foundation books had me attempting to build a psyhistory. My favorite book was a nonfiction work titled View From a Height. The introduction thereto was my justification for not pursuing a degree until I reached my forties. And he had a sense of humor.

Heinlein was devoted to individual competence except when he was doing something like Stranger. That book justified the 1960's counter revolution. It also completed my transformation into an agnostic.

Resnick expanded Heinlein's themes except for competence and expanded them into something both humorous and insghtful. Try Seven Views of Olduvai Gorge for insight and Birthright: The Book of Man for a counter to Heinlein's Future History basement map.

Bretthauer gave us a complete war fought by women. He did it without apology and a remarkable justification of why it had to be that way. He didn't make it a battle of the sexes; he just made it a reasoned view of women's capabilities. It damned sure refutes Heinlein's women and children first.

Wylie gave us a universe where competence counts. It's the only thing that counts in space. I know of nowhere else that the dangers of space travel are so thoroughly examined and overcome. She also gave us some very smart women to cheer for and the best reasoned argument for what constitutes an adult I have read.

For me, those are reasons, in today's world, to read, ponder, and enjoy their writing.
 
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@pogopossum , I started The Long Tomorrow because I just really needed a change of pace after Left Hand and Neuromancer. I will be updating head post. I understand you have knowledge of Brackett's work? After I finish my review, let's talk! Until then... mum's the word, unbiased critical purity and all that, you know :)

Will only say, so far it's just what the doctor ordered. Only 50 pages in. Speaking of reviews, still have to write one for Neuromancer. Let's just say... It's a lot for a poor little first-time reader! (There can be no going to Wikipedia, or anywhere else for a little discreet help in figuring out the plot, lol)
 
A favorite quote.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
In this case it's "Knowledge."
I went back and read a little Brackett because I was defending SF from being described as a totally white male genre. It was mostly, but so was most everything in the past. And Leigh Brackett (with C. L. Moore) was an early counter example that disproved the therom as an absolute.
A little Eric John Stark and The Sword of Rhiannon do not a Brackett expert make. I also was intrigued that she lasted to having her drafts significantly influence The Empire Strikes Back.

I would like to go on about C. L. Moore - but it don't fit here. Sufficient to say that she and her husband absolutely dominated a sizable period of early SF.
 
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I would like to go on about C. L. Moore - but it don't fit here. Sufficient to say that she and her husband absolutely dominated a sizable period of early SF.
Late in coming to their greatness, and hers specifically...
 
I would like to go on about C. L. Moore - but it don't fit here. Sufficient to say that she and her husband absolutely dominated a sizable period of early SF.
Well it's great writing so far... unfolds at its own pace, highly countrified. deep characterization, understated. It's hitting the spot, and it's got me hooked. No idea about the rest, just hope it can keep this up.

Regarding Moore, did she write any self-contained novels?(between 1935-85). If so any recommendations? Female writers still way under-represented on my list. In Sci Fi? Surprise, surprise, eh?
 
Well it's great writing so far... unfolds at it's own pace, highly countrified. deep characterization, understated. It's hitting the spot, and it's got me hooked. No idea about the rest, just hope it can keep this up.

Regarding Moore, did she write any self-contained novels?(between 1935-85). If so any recommendations? Female writers still way under-represented on my list. In Sci Fi? Surprise, surprise, eh?
Yes she did. I have one in the TBR queue right now and dig this ancient pb cover -and they got her name wrong! This was a clong recommendation. He's usually good for it -why I bought it!!

DMSDYMRN1960.jpg
 
Yes she did. I have one in the TBR queue right now and dig this ancient pb cover -and they got her name wrong!

Whooaa! Cool cover indeed. During a certain phase of graphic art floating faces were irrepresibly popular, lol... this ones' a wicked interpretation. Got the same motif on my copy of World of Null A. Funny...

Arthur, as far as you know this title is among her better or more influential novels?
 
Whooaa! Cool cover indeed. During a certain phase of graphic art floating faces were irrepresibly popular, lol... this ones' a wicked interpretation. Got the same motif on my copy of World of Null A. Funny...

Arthur, as far as you know this title is among her better or more influential novels?
Her more influential novels are written with her husband. I think her most well known solo material is her short stories, like "Shambleau" and "No Woman Born"...
 
I second Arthur's comment.
Look at the latest retro Hugo list. Three of the novelette nominees were her, with and without Kuttner. As C L. Moore, Lewis Padgett, and Lawrence O'Donnell. The couple were primarily short story writers. Still, look at the list of Kuttner novels LINK . A good half were collaborations, several (Fury for one) was not even listed that way.
(I couldn't stand that mistake, so I corrected Wikipedia)
I had previously heard the DeCamp story, on the link, that their collaboration was so seamless that even they had a hard time remembering who wrote what. Also heard that when one of them went to bed, leaving a story in the typewriter, often the other noticed and finished it.

During the lockdown I got into the Asimov/Greenburg Best of the Year series. It seemed that for a long time half the stories were by the two of them , hence my comment above about their domination.
 
I second Arthur's comment.
...
Thanks for the inside scoop as usual, Pogo. Will check out the links... still a little unclear if I can find a Kuttner/Moore novel to fit the list... Seems most of the work was stories or novellas.

Side note... I find collaborations fascinating. (Kuttner/Moore, Niven/Pournelle, Pohl/Kornbluth, Strugatsky Brothers) They would seem to lay bare the innards of the writing process. Who does what? How are the tasks divded? (conceive, outline, write, edit) I wonder how similar they are to each other. Could be a great essay -- doubtless already done and studied. Learned comments welcome! :-)
 
Added Startide Rising to revised list. Ach!! I was unable to avert my eyes in time and saw certain words on Wikipedia. Worst was seeing cover art depicting a certain marine mammal (that shall go nameless)... where can a poor guy go to get an unrealistically pure totally-blank reader experience? lolol
 
... I couldn't help but compare them to more recent work. My conclusion is that recent work in comparison to ancient work means more to me. ...
Hereford, like Mark found this an interesting discussion point.

Let’s say all human beings from Ancient Greece to the present can basically enjoy or comprehend 50 aestheic/philosophical things simultaneously maximum. So whatever time-period you are in, those fifty things are merely different, they are not added to. (they do not become 100 things). If that’s true then, though you see Resnick for example as a “better” exposition of the theme of competence, we might ask -- what did Heinlein have or achieve that Resnick *didn’t*? What things were lost? My thoughts here owe a little to that great CS Lewis quote about old books.

PS. View From a Height was an enormously influential book to me as a lad!

(added)

Not implying you would disagree with above. Using it as a soapbox springboard. :) I know you are a fan of the older stuff too. Would love to know more about the phrase "means more to me"... all you have cited is a theme (competence) which has evolved through various writers... Do any of the below hit the mark?

1. Fewer distracting "stick-outs" (race, sexist, etc.)
2. More reading enjoyment (fun-factor, plot, etc. )
3. More reading enjoyment (aesthetic edification, wonder, etc.)
4. More/better intellectual edification (ideas)

(sorry about running edits!! Will stop incase you want to respond)
 
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Comparing Heinlein to Resnick or vice versa makes no sense to me. It’s worse than comparing my own efforts in the early “90s to what I wrote in 2010s.

I don’t look at the world now as I did in the “90s. And I damn sure don’t view the world as I did in the “50s and early “60s. Heinlein wrote in the world he knew; Resnick writes in the world he knows.

Neither Heinlein nor Resnick could have written Haldeman’s The Forever War even though they were contemporaries. None of them could have written Vonnegut’s Slaughterhouse Five.

So what one writer has that another does not is experience. And comparing author experience strikes me as a futile exercise as it cannot validate or invalidate author’s competence.

What Heinlein no longer has is this reader’s experience, a set of experience that doesn’t accept as this reader used to accept all of Heinlein’s take on the world, or all of Resnick or all of Haldeman or all of Vonnegut or all of any writer I know. But the moderns now come closer than the ancients.

P.S. Wrote this before your addendum Thinking on it.
 
Elsewhere I have written that 1994 was a water shed year for me. One summer night my sister-in-law and I had a major disagreement about women. She accused me of being a male chauvinist. I spent the next month researching points she had made and discovered she was more right than wrong. Of course, I didn’t mention that fact to her till somewhere in 2019.

So, these days I tend to read more female authors than male. Bretthauer is a notable exception though his stories feature strong female leads. However, he doesn’t win the contest for best female lead; he's in 4th place (which is as far as my list currently spans). On my current list the top rank goes to Jack July’s Amy Lynn. Position Two goes to the women of Gina Marie Wylie’s Kinsella’s Universe, and Third Place goes to Jacques Antoine’s Emily Kane in his Girl series.

Yes, I know Amy Lynn is not sff, but you won’t find a better description anywhere of the making of a hero. The only book comparable is Anton Myers Once an Eagle.

Now, to your specific question:
1. Fewer distracting "stick-outs" (race, sexist, etc.) Just try Resnick’s Tales of the Velvet Comet and
Spider Robinson’s Lady Slings the Booze. Then get serious with Bretthauer’s Families War series.
2. More reading enjoyment (fun-factor, plot, etc. ) Resnick’s Santiago et al
3. More reading enjoyment (aesthetic edification, wonder, etc.) Carlos Ruiz Zafon’s The Shadow of the Wind
4. More/better intellectual edification (ideas): LeGuin’s The Left Hand of Darkness, Russell’s The Sparrow.

I suspect I didn't read your question close enough so my answers are off course. I'll do some more thinking.
 
Comparing Heinlein to Resnick or vice versa makes no sense to me.
Elsewhere I have written that 1994 was a water shed year for me. ...
I suspect I didn't read your question close enough so my answers are off course. I'll do some more thinking.
Haha.. Don't worry about it a bit. I do it virtually every single time I post! :) If it was a slight digression is was a fruitful one. Sometimes I come back to things said, but boy, there's a lot to think about and respond to in this thread and others... Thanks. That's a load of recommendations for a load of reasons. I hope I can keep track of all that. Familiar with none of the writers except Le Guin. Btw, maybe I shouldn't have used Heinlein and Resnick in my statment (really know neither of them!), I was just using them an example of an older and a newer writer to illustrate a more general point. My mistake there.
 
I see unfortunately that Resnick just passed away this year. Who was this obscure writer? I mean only 5 Hugos and 37 nominations? with one measly Nebula? (Why the hec don't I have any of his novels on my list?)
 
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Neuromancer by William Gibson [1984]
Ace/Berkley
287 pages
Reader Response by Matt H. [v 1.87] from Reading Odyssey
Rating: Recommended, but not a light read

Story Summary

In the near future humankind has established large, permanent space stations. It’s a time of advanced computer networks, genetic modification and ancient and powerful corporate families that have their lives extended through cryogenics. One such family, the Tessier-Ashpol inhabit their own luxurious and elaborate space station called Straylight. Computer processing power and cyber-security are the keys to controlling society. At this time it is possible to virtually integrate human perception with the digital universe - the “matrix”, and this is the means to the most consequential crimes and acts of sabotage.

Case, a semi-retired cyber-criminal and sometime hit-man, lives in the dark and dangerous sprawl of Chiba city. He soon becomes embroiled in a clandestine operation -- a heist of monumental proportions. Cases’ role will be to defeat the cyber security or “ice” of the opponent. For that purpose he will soon enter the matrix and contend with AI’s of almost omnipotent power. But first he must join a team including the mirror-eyed, razor-fingered assassin, Molly. Armitage the leader, is actually just the shell of a man. Riviera, a psychically-enhanced chameleon, can put images of any kind into people’s minds at will.

The Team travels to the Boston-Atlanta sprawl in pursuit of information and materials for their planned operation, then to Istanbul. Finally Case has his first journey into space as they blast off for the orbital station Freeside. Soon after they join forces with a group of Rastafarian space dwellers and begin operations from the small Rasta space tug, Marcus Garvey. But the two main, most powerful AI’s have their own game. Things do not go smoothly. Case, Molly and the crew are involved in a fatal climactic struggle. In the end Case discovers an unimaginable world even beyond the matrix. It is the realm of Neuromancer.

Critical Reader Response

In its content and especially in its style Neuromancer is an immensely impressive book. I think “rewarding but demanding” will sum it up for many readers. It’s not a light read. Serious criticisms other than that are hard to think of. The prose of this book can be unusually torrential, intense and breathless. The plot is moderately complex and the themes, and sometimes even the action can be abstract, and the interrelationships complicated. But the writing itself will wow you. (This is a writing style definitely worthy of imitation.) At times it’s just a grinding avalanche of metaphor, with copious appositives and long winding series of clauses, stunning in their artistic sureness and consistent quality. Yet it escapes the “tour-de-force to a fault” problem. It has a good and exciting underlying story with plenty of action. I felt the story came to a close fairly quickly but not un-satisfyingly, with a somewhat traditional final coda.

Early on the story shows many clear hallmarks of detective fiction. It opens with a bar scene. The customers are druggy and seedy -- hoods, prostitutes and of course inevitably, someone is looking for the down-on-his-luck protagonist. There is danger and even a good chance of death. There are pistol muzzles stuck in ribs, smart-talking wise guys and a semi-washed up crook called out of retirement. There is a mysterious job, hits, hidden identities. Things are not as they seem. There’s a rich, society heiress with secrets, crimes of sexual violence, and corrupt and decadent old families. But the detective-story feeling fades out almost entirely relatively soon, and you see this book is going to be something else altogether. But this section was nevertheless nicely presented; the book could have even been successful if it had followed the detective mold further. It didn’t.

This is a work of many wonderful semi-explored corridors. Many of them are also lurid and some are truly awful and terrifying. You have artificial intelligences, virtual reality matrices, super cyber security and viruses, recorded interactive “constructs” of the dead (some of whom crave nothing more than to be erased), post-death “flatline” realities, genetic manipulation, surgical modification and cryogenics, creepy inbred heiresses of immense brilliance. There are also “fetishistic” anarchical groups with odd, inscrutable agendas, and medicinal and recreational drugs of the future. Occasionally it gets a little gory. The hallucinations produced by the character Riviera are the most terrifying of all -- sick, dark but described with immense artistry. The author skillfully treads here, and preserves the main effect of the story instead of going too lurid. All these wonders in mind, it’s fair to add that it was not always crystal clear to a first time-reader-- who is fighting, allied with or double-crossing whom, or for what motivation? This is why I said it’s a little complex.

So how does Gibson mitigate reader confusion in a book that is such a fire-hose of figurative language, with abstract action and ideas, cyber-based POV’s and a relatively complex plot? It seems he anticipated the problem. Much of the book is divided into smaller sections, that are often, but not always, self-contained scenes or reading units. These potentially gives you a place to take a break, mull what you just read, or maybe pick your jaw up off the floor. Gibson plays it well and avoids too much prosaic explanation of the mysterious. However I noticed another admirable aid in understanding things. The writer returns to some of the more abstract events portrayed earlier in the book and helps clarify them. He does this unobtrusively and artfully. In a few places he flat out explains aspects of the book’s overall point or intended effect. This helped give the ending more completeness. Though I felt Rivera was a bit of a loose end and imagined he would get it. The writer reversed that expectation and the final scenes mention him and he seems perfectly happy. Perhaps its extra moral ambiguity added.?

Is the book too good to be fun? Honestly I must admit I did not usually look forward to picking it up between reading sessions, not as a diversion anyway. Still, Neuromancer has an overall clear story and like I said plenty of action. It’s intense but not incomprehensible. If you let go of the need to properly appreciate each metaphor and to truly understand every abstract nuance, then the reading will certainly be a lighter experience.
 
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Got my review of Neuromancer done. Wheeww! Writing a "story summary" for that book from memory is like running up a hill with a sack of bricks! Weasel-ly generalities working overtime. As always, would love to hear thoughts. Will likely make some edits to the review.
 
Got my review of Neuromancer done. Wheeww! Writing a "story summary" for that book from memory is like running up a hill with a sack of bricks! Weasel-ly generalities working overtime. As always, would love to hear thoughts. Will likely make some edits to the review.
Honestly, I've always thought by and large, Gibson was a blast, and he always went down easy. I just read Pattern Recognition about 5 minutes ago, and again, thought it was a blast. Not SF, but still,a fun interesting read. The only book (of the ones I've read) that I had a prob with was Count Zero. That was during the time when Gibson was insisting in interviews that he could "do plot". I don't know why he thought he couldn't, but he over compensated and overplotted that book, so that it had this irritating plotting rhythm -"ABC-ABC-ABC-...
It became like a march. Almost drove me nuts. Tom Clancy by way of another example, often drives me nuts with this...
 

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