Authors you like but the majority loathes!
- Thread starter Alex
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Sfinx
Life's a riddle
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lol...i guess it's more a matter of an inner me grumbling / wondering about liking Lee than lots of people voicing their dislike or devoting entire threads to bashing her...it's a bit like another topic raised on this forum -> almost being ashamed of buying a fanatasy novel because of the dreadful cover art 
I've heard some people have a nastry gripe against James Clemens=) I actually like his books. Could you guys who don't like him motivate yourselves?
His newest fantasy series shadow-something actually caught ahold of me like some soapopera series and I started to care for the main characters. Even though it's extremely formulaic fantasy I like it alot=)
Damn, feels like I'm diging my own grave here, fire away Clemens "dislikers". Why do you not like his books?
His newest fantasy series shadow-something actually caught ahold of me like some soapopera series and I started to care for the main characters. Even though it's extremely formulaic fantasy I like it alot=)
Damn, feels like I'm diging my own grave here, fire away Clemens "dislikers". Why do you not like his books?
Haplo100503
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First this thread is the reason I registered very original I have surfing this site for months and now I am a member because of you guys or maybe I can just give credit to Alex.
Anyway on topic...
Amaunette,
Yes I do accept your opinion on LOTR, but remember many novels we read today would not be possible without this first original work. Which is why it is regarded so high on the pedestal for the fantasy reader.
Some of these books include which I hate for the simple reason for not having an original idea:
Sword of Shannara trilogy
First Chroniucles of Thonas Covenant
The WOT series especially the first novel, then some originality comes in until book 6 where it falls victim to the all mighty dollar and pages are produced instead of story.
I could go on and on...........
Other very popular books that in IMO are horrible or have become horrible:
The Dark Elf series R.A. Salvatore started off great and now is just producing lackluster dribble
The SOT series will NEVER end and if it does I will never know because it has become like the WOT
The Belgariad good all other books written by Eddings are nothing but a copy of the first five books
Books I love are and of course some guilty pleasures
:
LOTR If you don't know then just read all of your books and take out elves, dwarves, dragons you get the point
Kushiel's Legacy by Jacqueline Carey finally a strong woman protagonist, no pulling of braids and skirt smoothing here
The Dragonlance Chronicles
loved them they started me reading fantasy
The Death Gate Cycle by Weis and Hickman, wonderful world
The Dark Elf Trilogy tons of magic, fight scenes to make you sweat, dominate women and all in the dark
The Earthsea Trilogy old school fantasy that was before the days of the massive computer tomes of today
The Tempaire Trilogy very interesting use of dragons in victorian days of history
The Prince of Nothing a must read can't do it justice to decribe how awesome it is
Steven Erikson one of the few authors that to me have kept the flow going on a ridiculous amount of books and he is already on book seven and no fallout in sight. This is where hope comes in for this to end as fantastic as it is right now.
I like The SOFAI series by Martin I am hoping he can bounce back from the recent novel and give us more of the original three. Can he write any slower though
I like Williams MS&T great books that you need to get past the first couple hundred pages......that is one big forest
All time favorite that has to fit in this topic because you either love it or despise it The Books of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe simply literary genius.
Wow lengthy post
I have surfing this site for months and now I am a member because of you guys or maybe I can just give credit to Alex.Anyway on topic...
Amaunette,
Yes I do accept your opinion on LOTR, but remember many novels we read today would not be possible without this first original work. Which is why it is regarded so high on the pedestal for the fantasy reader.
Some of these books include which I hate for the simple reason for not having an original idea:
Sword of Shannara trilogy
First Chroniucles of Thonas Covenant
The WOT series especially the first novel, then some originality comes in until book 6 where it falls victim to the all mighty dollar and pages are produced instead of story.
I could go on and on...........
Other very popular books that in IMO are horrible or have become horrible:
The Dark Elf series R.A. Salvatore started off great and now is just producing lackluster dribble
The SOT series will NEVER end and if it does I will never know because it has become like the WOT
The Belgariad good all other books written by Eddings are nothing but a copy of the first five books
Books I love are and of course some guilty pleasures
:LOTR If you don't know then just read all of your books and take out elves, dwarves, dragons you get the point
Kushiel's Legacy by Jacqueline Carey finally a strong woman protagonist, no pulling of braids and skirt smoothing here
The Dragonlance Chronicles
loved them they started me reading fantasyThe Death Gate Cycle by Weis and Hickman, wonderful world
The Dark Elf Trilogy tons of magic, fight scenes to make you sweat, dominate women and all in the dark
The Earthsea Trilogy old school fantasy that was before the days of the massive computer tomes of today
The Tempaire Trilogy very interesting use of dragons in victorian days of history
The Prince of Nothing a must read can't do it justice to decribe how awesome it is
Steven Erikson one of the few authors that to me have kept the flow going on a ridiculous amount of books and he is already on book seven and no fallout in sight. This is where hope comes in for this to end as fantastic as it is right now.
I like The SOFAI series by Martin I am hoping he can bounce back from the recent novel and give us more of the original three. Can he write any slower though
I like Williams MS&T great books that you need to get past the first couple hundred pages......that is one big forest
All time favorite that has to fit in this topic because you either love it or despise it The Books of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe simply literary genius.
Wow lengthy post
Severn
boss of several cats...
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Firstly welcome.
However...going to have to point out that Tolkien's work is not the first original fantasy, which is a common misconception... the LOTR's popularity over the years has generated that belief, but it's definitely not the 'first', or the 'best' work.
Now, if my husband wasn't sitting sadly at his desk, waiting for me to start up a multi-player game with him, I'd go get a list of earlier fantasies. If no one beats me to it, I'll come back with some tomorrow.
Cheers
K
Haplo100503
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Thank you for the warm welcome and unfortunately I have given Tolkien undo credit. What books are you talking about when you refer to first and definitely the best. I am fairly young, well read in fantasy only and would love to hear a previous author that did what Tolkien did. I have always been like you said the common misconception that Tolkien had started all of this wonderful fantasy I read today. Now what I am referring to is of course high fantasy. Low magic worlds are another topic all together.
Severn
boss of several cats...
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I'll keep this brief, and not too detailed, to avoid too much of a thread-hijack.
Well, at its simplest level contemporary fantasy is based around the evolution of the fairy tale, and of myths & legends. The novels that immediately spring to mind for me are Lord Dunsany & E.R Eddison, both of whom wrote classic novels: Dunsany's The King of Elfland's Daughter (1924) is one example, and Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros (1924). There's all the classic children's fantasies out there, and two examples are E Nesbit's The Phoenix and the Carpet (1904), and George MacDonald's The Princess and the Goblin (1872). (Not epic, they are children's stories after all, but they are nevertheless, fantastical tales).
There was a nice, fat explosion of fantasy in the 20's-40's which saw the arrival of sword & sorcery, yet both that and epic fantasy wasn't exactly 'popular' - hence, it all flew under the radar, consigned in the minds of the general populace as belonging to fairy tale, and thus, children. It was difficult in post-depression & the war eras to imbue the populace with a sense of finding a place for the fantastic. When times started looking up in the western world the genre was met with more warmth, and here enters Tolkien's epic adult fantasy in the 50's. It was definitely the popularity of LOTR that changed that mind set (to some degree, after all sci-fi is still something of a shady genre for many people out there), but authors like Dunsany and Eddison had already written epic fantasies.
So, yes, we owe a lot to Tolkien regarding the acceptance of the genre, but he just happened to write an accessible fantasy tale, full of human themes people could identify with, at the right time...
Ok, I will admit I like Goodkind. Loved The Sword of Truth series although I will admit there were times he dropped the ball, but over all I loved the whole thing. And Eddings is another one I love. The Belgaraid is really what got me into fantasy and I will always love his books. Do I see the flaws and shortcomings of some of these books? Yes, but I don't really care. To me it is the same reason we eat and drink things that we know are not good for us. We like it anyway and don't really care what others think
I also started fantasy with the Belgariad and loved it. It holds a special place in my heart. I am afraid to go back and read it since it might not live up to my expectations. I enjoyed Eddings up to a point and then lost interest in his books . I gave Goodkind a try and thought he wasn't bad for the first 3 books, but I jumped ship halfway through his 4th.
What I don't understand is the praise for Steven Erikson and his Malazan series. I read the first book and thought it was mediocre at best. I tried giving it another chance with Deadhouse Gates but it was just not good enough to keep me going. Flat one dimensional characters and a lack of dsscription ruined it for me.
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It's worth pointing out as collarary to Severn's excellent historical summary that Lord of the Ring's popularity was a matter of slow development. Tolkein wrote the children's book, The Hobbit, to decent success, more in England than the U.S. The Lord of the Rings was meant to be the sequel, based on tales he made up for his kids, but morphed into something much larger for adults from his life-long passions for language, mythology and history, and the scars his country had suffered in two world wars. The large Lord of the Rings did not do very well, but when it was split up and reprinted in paperback, young people who were already reading SF and fantasy were passing it around and turned it into a cult following.
Fantasy was regularly published in fiction, and not just for the developing children's market. There were many adult titles, such as T.H.White's The Once and Future King. In the SF category market, there was also a lot of fantasy published in magazines, novellas and novels by authors who were also doing SF -- Michael Morcock, Fritz Lieber, etc., who used elves, dwarves and other creatures without any connection or even knowledge of an Oxford academic who'd done two books. The early SF publishers, seeing a positive response to their fantasy offerings, started doing more of those sort of titles -- many of them quite dark. Horror also would soon become another market.
The successful reprinting of the Lord of the Rings and of things like reprinting Marvyn Peake's work, and many other works in the sixties and early seventies showed publishers that there was a sizable audience that wasn't just chasing a new trend but were genuinely interested in reading fantasy, long-term. The publication of works like Brooks' Shanara was less an attempt to copy Tolkein and more a burst of enthusiasm from the realization that adults would read epic stories with fantasy elements and the permission for interested authors to start experimenting. Shanara, for example, was an attempt to mix SF elements and fantasy ones, as a number of authors were playing around with at the time, including Mr. Wolfe, who wrote fantasy, SF and SF that looked like fantasy, such as the Books of the New Sun.
Sometimes the experiment had hiccups as it broke new ground. Donaldson's first Thomas Convenant novel was rejected by about twenty publishers as too dark a story. An anti-hero who was a grumpy leper who did bad things seemed like a tough sell. It certainly wasn't elegantly Tolkeinesque or like the classic mythic poems that had inspired him. When it was published, the buzz among fans was immediate because the work was seen as going in a new direction. Donaldson essentially laid down the tracks that darker writers like Bakker and Erickson would follow later on, and the series made a showing on the major bestseller lists that proved that fantasy fiction had sales legs -- it was a time in fact when SFF started to transform from niche specialty into a major part of the fiction market.
There were hundreds and hundreds of titles published, all in paperback. Many of them have gone out of print, even though they were major titles in the field. I just learned that a classic SF title from Robert Silverberg, Dying Inside, is out of print, even though many other of his works are not and sell briskly. And so I cannot set great store by people claiming that I should like a new author purely because he is doing something not seen before, or that the work of an older author is derivative when at its publication, it was considered revolutionary -- creating the motifs, not following them. It becomes a shell game, and I'd rather go search out the pea for myself. Consequently, I like a lot of authors many others at this point loathe, I guess.
Trencher, you might want to try Glen Cook's Black Company novels. Earlier generation, similar territory -- the two authors share many fans and then have others that favor one over the other.
Fantasy was regularly published in fiction, and not just for the developing children's market. There were many adult titles, such as T.H.White's The Once and Future King. In the SF category market, there was also a lot of fantasy published in magazines, novellas and novels by authors who were also doing SF -- Michael Morcock, Fritz Lieber, etc., who used elves, dwarves and other creatures without any connection or even knowledge of an Oxford academic who'd done two books. The early SF publishers, seeing a positive response to their fantasy offerings, started doing more of those sort of titles -- many of them quite dark. Horror also would soon become another market.
The successful reprinting of the Lord of the Rings and of things like reprinting Marvyn Peake's work, and many other works in the sixties and early seventies showed publishers that there was a sizable audience that wasn't just chasing a new trend but were genuinely interested in reading fantasy, long-term. The publication of works like Brooks' Shanara was less an attempt to copy Tolkein and more a burst of enthusiasm from the realization that adults would read epic stories with fantasy elements and the permission for interested authors to start experimenting. Shanara, for example, was an attempt to mix SF elements and fantasy ones, as a number of authors were playing around with at the time, including Mr. Wolfe, who wrote fantasy, SF and SF that looked like fantasy, such as the Books of the New Sun.
Sometimes the experiment had hiccups as it broke new ground. Donaldson's first Thomas Convenant novel was rejected by about twenty publishers as too dark a story. An anti-hero who was a grumpy leper who did bad things seemed like a tough sell. It certainly wasn't elegantly Tolkeinesque or like the classic mythic poems that had inspired him. When it was published, the buzz among fans was immediate because the work was seen as going in a new direction. Donaldson essentially laid down the tracks that darker writers like Bakker and Erickson would follow later on, and the series made a showing on the major bestseller lists that proved that fantasy fiction had sales legs -- it was a time in fact when SFF started to transform from niche specialty into a major part of the fiction market.
There were hundreds and hundreds of titles published, all in paperback. Many of them have gone out of print, even though they were major titles in the field. I just learned that a classic SF title from Robert Silverberg, Dying Inside, is out of print, even though many other of his works are not and sell briskly. And so I cannot set great store by people claiming that I should like a new author purely because he is doing something not seen before, or that the work of an older author is derivative when at its publication, it was considered revolutionary -- creating the motifs, not following them. It becomes a shell game, and I'd rather go search out the pea for myself. Consequently, I like a lot of authors many others at this point loathe, I guess.
Trencher, you might want to try Glen Cook's Black Company novels. Earlier generation, similar territory -- the two authors share many fans and then have others that favor one over the other.
A. Merritt
Well, I don't know that anyone loathes him, but Abraham Merritt used to be (1920's and 30's) considered a top fantasist, and his reputation in literary circles has declined unfairly. His "The Moon Pool" and "The Metal Monster" and "Face in the Abyss" and others are wonderful. He captures a sense of strangeness but with a modern feel (remember, modern equals early twentieth century here) and is very evocative and even poignant. He was quite an influence on many writers. Sentient geometric shapes, reptilian steeds, living shadows, grand battles and all the rest - he did it first and often best. Perhaps too well-liked in his own day, the kickback of reactionary criticism resulted in even some of his "pupils" becoming embarrassed by the association. But great writers like Moore and Williamson and Hamilton and others acknowledged a debt to Merritt.
Well, I don't know that anyone loathes him, but Abraham Merritt used to be (1920's and 30's) considered a top fantasist, and his reputation in literary circles has declined unfairly. His "The Moon Pool" and "The Metal Monster" and "Face in the Abyss" and others are wonderful. He captures a sense of strangeness but with a modern feel (remember, modern equals early twentieth century here) and is very evocative and even poignant. He was quite an influence on many writers. Sentient geometric shapes, reptilian steeds, living shadows, grand battles and all the rest - he did it first and often best. Perhaps too well-liked in his own day, the kickback of reactionary criticism resulted in even some of his "pupils" becoming embarrassed by the association. But great writers like Moore and Williamson and Hamilton and others acknowledged a debt to Merritt.
Mine are two of the usual suspects it seems - Brooks and Jordan. Both I started reading as a teen, and without knowledge or exposure to other fantasy readers and their criticisms of these two. So I made sure to read each of their new releases, and even when I started to become aware of how eerily similar each of Brooks books was, and how the WoT series had lost its way, I still plugged away. They're kind of like friends you've had since you were really young. Sure, they may bore you some time and let you down more often than not, but you've known them for so long you can't give up on them. Thankfully Brooks has rewarded my loyalty with the Word/Void and Armageddon's Children series.
ColdSun
The Enigmatic Paradox
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Can I just name a guilty pleasure of mine and not an author? It has to do with the books I read....
I love the Forgotten Realms books. Always have. I read a whole lot of stuff, including all the authors folks think are the best on this site, but I also don't look down on the FR books at all and have a lot of fun reading them when I find one I want to read.
I love the Forgotten Realms books. Always have. I read a whole lot of stuff, including all the authors folks think are the best on this site, but I also don't look down on the FR books at all and have a lot of fun reading them when I find one I want to read.
I'm ashamed to admit that I could never get into Robin Hobb's books. The Liveship Traders were bearable, but the Soldier Son Trilogy and - even more shockingly - the Fitz books didn't do it for me at all. In both cases I thought the pacing was slow, the plot boring and to top it off, the main characters frustrated me.
Now I'm not someone who has to "like" the main characters, but they have to fascinate me in some way. Nevare and Fitz just set my teeth on edge.
Now I'm not someone who has to "like" the main characters, but they have to fascinate me in some way. Nevare and Fitz just set my teeth on edge.
NighteyesIV
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I agree with you about Eddings...but I will admit that my liking for him has gone down with each series that he has put out. I think that his early series (ie. the Belgariad- Mallorean and Sparhawk) were amazing, but I will admit that I read them all in 6th grade and through middle school. I also read them a bit as a freshman but I don't really read them anymore becuase I have discovered authors that out rank him. This is only my opinion though. I will admit that he does have a great sense of character development and a master of dialouge.
conningcris
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Personally I don't mind Goodkind, i've read all his books, although he doesn't get a bit annoying in that hes slow to get to a point, and seems to go on for pages about a character "realizing the truth of life!"...If I wanted philosopher i'm sure there are better out there.
Secondly I never could like rowling...the stories are fine but the quality of writing just aren't there for me.
Secondly I never could like rowling...the stories are fine but the quality of writing just aren't there for me.
Mithfânion
Lord of the Wild Hunt
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I don't have this very often that I really like a series where the majority laothes it. One that does come to mind however is the Fionavar Tapestry, which does it have it's fans and I'm certinaly one of the most outspoken ones, but generally speaking more people who try it dislike it than like it.
QuickTidal
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Hmmmm.
I'll say that I enjoyed the Dragonlance series (Chronicles, not necessarily Legends) by Weis and Hickman and it still holds a special place in my heart.
I also like Brooks. I made one mistake while reading him. I read The First King Of Shannara (the prequel to Sword) first, which was written moderately recently compared to the other books in the series, and is REALLY good. I moved on to Sword of Shannara which I loathed. I also like his word/Void series, and I'd like to read the new crossover series betwixt the two.
I'll say that I enjoyed the Dragonlance series (Chronicles, not necessarily Legends) by Weis and Hickman and it still holds a special place in my heart.
I also like Brooks. I made one mistake while reading him. I read The First King Of Shannara (the prequel to Sword) first, which was written moderately recently compared to the other books in the series, and is REALLY good. I moved on to Sword of Shannara which I loathed. I also like his word/Void series, and I'd like to read the new crossover series betwixt the two.
gollumbells
BLOOD FREASH TASTY BLOOD
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Yeah. terry brooks and david eddings. havent read eddings for donkeys years though.
Fun topic! If not for this thread i don't think i'd ever admit in public i actually enjoy(ed) Tanith Lee
I've always loved Tanith Lee, and I completely agree with you. My guilty pleasure is The Silver Metal Lover.
I'm also not sure why everyone likes Robin Hobb's Farseer and Tawny Man books more than the Liveship Traders books ; I've enjoyed all of them but the Liveship traders I thought was the best series. Have yet to pick up Soldier's son trilogy.
Hmmmm...
Not sure if I enjoy anyone the majority of readers loathe. Maybe the closest would be H. P. Lovecraft.
I certainly enjoy some writers the vast majority of readers seem indifferent to: Clark Ashton Smith and Jonathan Carroll come to mind.
Randy M.
Not sure if I enjoy anyone the majority of readers loathe. Maybe the closest would be H. P. Lovecraft.
I certainly enjoy some writers the vast majority of readers seem indifferent to: Clark Ashton Smith and Jonathan Carroll come to mind.
Randy M.
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