Okay first of all, expecting a thread entitled Dislike Kingkiller Chronicles? that chastises people who aren't devoted fans with a poem to be a series "friendly" thread is an unworkable position, 3rdI. If you're going to troll people, teahuppo, they are going to react accordingly. If any time they say there was a part of the books they had a problem with, you feel this requires a vigorous defense that says their personal opinions of a work they read are awful and villainous, then even people who really like the books -- and they are numerous on this forum -- are going to get upset about that and feel that they can't talk about the book here and it's going to squash what positive buzz they already have from the books. If you want to support Rothfuss, this is an ineffective way to go about it and the opposite of what Rothfuss and many other authors would like fans to do.
Contrarius and I are not having an argument where one of us is trying to "win." Indeed, this is not possible. It does not require defenders and attackers. We're discussing how we saw things in the books, what bothered us, what we liked, what seemed to work and what didn't, our different views and interpretations. Both of us, if you'd bother to look, are actually talking about many positive aspects of the books.
Even when I really love a book, I will talk about things that may have been flaws for me or things that bothered other people but not me, as a matter of fact I'm doing at the moment in a Black Company thread. It is possible that something I say about a book offers a new insight to another person in a discussion, just as 3rdI's discussion of the satiric aspects of Name of the Wind and what Rothfuss had said about it gave me an insight into how Rothfuss was using dialogue in the book. But this is not something that can be forced on others. It's an outgrowth of such discussions, not a commandment. As we explain in the guidelines, discussions that consist of Rothfuss sucks! and Rothfuss rules! for any author just don't wield a lot of interest. They drive people away.
Martin has just as many passionate detractors who hate Song as he does passionate fans. Eighty percent of the arguing over Martin on this forum was about his ability to finish the series and specifically the fifth book, not the books themselves. But I have had plenty of Martin discussions over the years here where I'm talking about things that are problems for me but weren't for others or talking about interesting things in the books for me that for other people didn't work or they didn't agree with my interpretation. But that's not the same as fighting over an author like it's a death match.
Rothfuss was a major New York Times bestseller with his first novel. They drooled over Name of the Wind in every major SFFH blog. The gushing on this forum when the book came out was massive. But what was also possible then was for vigorous discussions between readers who liked some things but maybe not everything about Kvothe, and readers who did.
And it's going to be possible now, by gumbo.
Twinner said:
So how do we know where the unreliabilty of the narrator is beyond our own guesswork?
Because Rothfuss has talked a fair amount about the unreliable narrator aspects of the story.
Interpretation can widely diverge from author intent, but that still makes the interpretation interesting because it is symbolism and meaning that spoke to those readers and is worth discussing because of that. The author does not dictate how we see and react to his stories. In this case, however, both the satirical layer and the unreliable narrator approach have been explained by the author as intentional. Whether specific parts of the story may or may not be unreliable is somewhat up in the air, and that's also a deliberate part of the approach.
Contrarius said:
It's Chronicler's own private system, so he couldn't have known it already. And right now I don't remember any sort of magic that would give him knowledge like that......?
I don't think that Chronicler is such a proven mastermind that his private system would be something completely unfamiliar to the at this point highly experienced Kvothe. Nor is fae or other magic tricks ruled out. Or it could just be that Kvothe did figure it out quick. That's the point -- we don't know if Kvothe is putting on a show and running a scam on Chronicler or not, or is doing so only partially.
He spends all that time establishing his utter brilliance at everything....and then he doesn't even try to advance himself?
I think the difference here is that you are expecting his brilliance to always lead to achievement and particular types of achievement. One of the achievements that Kvothe does accomplish in the city is that he figures out what sort of person he wants to be, what he will and will not do.
So you might argue that he doesn't advance himself because that would require building gangs or at least coalitions, or the ability to charm others. OTOH, you could also say that as an Edema Ruh he should be used to the acting that would be required for doing such things, whether or not he were naturally inclined to do it. Hmmm.
To advance himself, Kvothe could try to build a criminal gang, yes. But he decides that isn't what he wants to do and could lead to his death. He could turn away from the old man who helps the street children and conserve his own resources, but he decides not to and helps him. He thieves to survive, but he decides that he does not want thievery to be his opportunity to escape to a better life and it wouldn't be that better a life anyway. In the city, he isn't able to achieve in trade or education because of the way it's structured. He can't easily get into entertainment. Nor does he necessarily want to try to convince some nice family to adopt him. But what does happen is that the info he gets from the storyteller offers him a plan and to pursue that plan, he needs to try to get to the university and try to get into it. The society of the university is set up to value magical ability and so Kvothe's financial state, lack of social skills, etc. -- things that were large obstacles in the city -- are not as important as his potential at the university. (This is of course assuming everything Kvothe says about this past is true.)
Additionally, Rothfuss is taking Kvothe through the equivalent of the stations of the cross for the epic coming of age story for both the biographical and satirical purposes. Becoming lord of the city as a twelve year old is not one of those stations. The journey from bereft street urchin to lucky, mentored student is.
But Kvothe is supposed to be extraordinary in nearly all ways -- music, medicine, magic, theatre, and so on and so forth ad infinitum.
No, he's extraordinary in a certain set of ways that mostly deal with intuition, intelligence and magical skills (including music and showmanship.) He also is very stupid about other things and has a number of flaws, including the social awkwardness. He makes mistakes. He is only worldly about some things and hopelessly naive about others. He is full of rage and fear regarding the Chandrians and his past, and so is not always good at controlling and utilizing his emotions and maintaining the masks his theater training taught him. He's stubborn and not a team player. He often has trouble reading other people in the story and when he's not doing his magical lute playing, he puts off people. (Or at least that's how he's presenting himself.) That's consistent with non-magical, high IQ people here on Earth. (This is actually a topic we've talked about regarding Kvothe before in a thread. I know his name was in the thread title, but I don't remember the exact name of the thread.)
