February 2008 BOTM: Eifelheim by Michael Flynn

[Hobbit]

This month's book is a fairly recent publication.

Published in October 2006, the book is an SF novel that reads in part as a Fantasy novel.

The novella on which the novel was based was nominated for a Hugo Award for Best Novella in 1987. The novel was nominated for a Hugo Award in 2007.

The book is available online HERE.

Let the discussion begin!

Mark / Hobbit

 

[suciul]

This one is a career book for Mr. Flynn that elevates him to top rank sf. Sort of like Spin was for RC. Wilson. I will post more of my thoughts later, but I strongly recommend anyone interested in philosophical sf to read this book.

 

[intensityxx]

Strange...I've been looking for this thread in the book club forum for 2 days, and here it is, in the main sf forum.

I've still got another 80 pages to read, but I'll chime in when I'm done. As much as I loved Wreck, I'm finding this one quite difficult to get through - mostly because I don't have a grounding in European history.

 

[suciul]

Strange...I've been looking for this thread in the book club forum for 2 days, and here it is, in the main sf forum.

I've still got another 80 pages to read, but I'll chime in when I'm done. As much as I loved Wreck, I'm finding this one quite difficult to get through - mostly because I don't have a grounding in European history.

Wreck is a pretty good book, though I have read it only after Eifelheim but it's very, very unbalanced; it flows and then it crawls and you have to fight to keep reading and then it flows again and... (the only time Mr. Flynn had previously appeared on my radar so to speak was with his near future books of which I checked the first one, and abandoned it quickly since Atlas Shrugged reinvented is just not my type)

In Eifelheim the main part of the book just flows smoothly and is really a pleasure to read; the characters are interesting and illustrate how the popular perception of the Middle Ages is so wrong and biased, since the culture of that period was pretty rich and varied - pretty alien to us true as Eifelheim shows by making the aliens as the modern mouthpiece, but far from the monolithic, superstitious ignorance used by the Church and Aristocracy to keep people down (it's useful to read a good popular modern book on medieval history like the one by N. Cantor to dispel that myth)

The modern part of Eifelheim is more uneven and could have been cut with the Medieval part expanded and that would have made the book even better, but I guess since the original novella (which I read after the novel) was pretty much it, Mr. Flynn did not have much choice but to keep it a bit revised.

 

[intensityxx]

Wreck is a pretty good book, though I have read it only after Eifelheim but it's very, very unbalanced; it flows and then it crawls and you have to fight to keep reading and then it flows again and...

It's interesting that you mention that, because that was my experience with Eifelheim. I'm sure the author was enjoying the long religious/scientific discourses between the priest and the alien, and I have to say that I did too for a while, but later such conversations became tedious for me, and made me lose interest in the story. While I'm glad I read this, I didn't always enjoy it.

I'm still digesting, so will add more thoughts later.

 

[suciul]

It's interesting that you mention that, because that was my experience with Eifelheim. I'm sure the author was enjoying the long religious/scientific discourses between the priest and the alien, and I have to say that I did too for a while, but later such conversations became tedious for me, and made me lose interest in the story. While I'm glad I read this, I didn't always enjoy it.

I'm still digesting, so will add more thoughts later.

I love philosophical sf that touches on the "big questions" as long as is done well, so that coupled with my love of history made the medieval part of Eifelheim a real treat, but I sure enough understand why it may seem dragging in point

Many years ago when I was in grad school doing my math PhD, I used to be a co-organizer of an undergraduate interdisciplinary seminar in Science and Religion and we explored lots of interesting stuff from the more popular P. Davies, F. Dyson, F.Tipler, Rev J. Polkinghorne, PhD to more esoteric modern religious thinkers like H. Kung so this kind of philosophical literature deeply informed by modern science has always been one of my favorite reads whether fiction or not

 

[Raule]

I love philosophical SF, too, and examining the big questions are what attracted me to the genre to begin with, but I also found Eifelheim tedious. I liked the ideas Flynn was working with, but perhaps because of the extent of the religious philosophy, I just didn't buy this as a first contact story. Not at all. I got so frustrated that I skimmed the middle of it. Perhaps I should give it another try, but I need more patience for that than I have right now.

 

[Lfex]

I liked this one a lot. It was interesting to see how medieval humans seemed more alien to us than actual aliens. Author's musing about medieval ages were also really interesting and went against common prejudices against this epoch. The story itself was also quite moving and to some extent avoided total predictability of A Wreck of Rivers of Stars.

 

[Ropie]

I'm finding this one quite difficult to get through - mostly because I don't have a grounding in European history.

You need a grounding in European history; Europe is the place where all the history happened! (western history, at any rate)

 

[AuntiePam]

I liked this one a lot. It was interesting to see how medieval humans seemed more alien to us than actual aliens. Author's musing about medieval ages were also really interesting and went against common prejudices against this epoch. The story itself was also quite moving and to some extent avoided total predictability of A Wreck of Rivers of Stars.

Good point, Lfex. I hadn't thought of it that way but you're right. It was easier for me to relate to the aliens than the villagers.

The concept of a medieval person seeing aliens (who look like grasshoppers) as fellow creatures of God -- very original. Or maybe it's not original, but it's the first I've encountered it.

I agree with Siciul about the modern parts (uninvolving) but they were short, and could be skimmed without losing anything.

Part of me wished that this had been a time travel story, but I don't know if I'd want the priest to come to our time or the scientists to travel back. Either would have been a good read.

I don't read much SF so I don't know how Eifelheim compares, but it made my top ten list for 2007.

 

[FicusFan]

I wouldn't blame lack of history for your problem, Intensity, this book just seems poorly constructed and written.

I loved Wreck which was a masterpiece, and was really hopeful for this. Also when he read the small part of Eifelheim, it sounded good. Love the idea of aliens and history.

At the end Flynn says in one of his notes that he had a hard time trying to write as modern person, from the medieval perspective of the people in the historical setting. It was evident in his writing. So much of the early part of the book was just the equivalent of white noise, and was unremarkable and unmemorable.

That self-consciousness, where he couldn't just write the story from the within the characters, without worrying about the accuracy of the historical voice produced an awkward stiffness that was there for 3/4 of the book in the medieval section, and that was the only decent part of the book.

It wasn't until almost the end that he seemed to bond with his characters, and the story actually started to flow. He got out of the way, and let them speak. Hans and Dietrich managed to shine, but the many of them were mostly lifeless except for being pretty stereotypical medieval people.

The modern part was just a waste in terms of story (even though it was the original genesis of the idea). The two main characters were nasty and unsympathetic. Worse they were clearly fake constructs, just to do a running science info dump. There was no real integration of the two stories, they were just pasted together. Flynn throws out the idea that the development of self-exploration in philosophy/religion/psychology is due to a mistaken understanding of advanced physics that humans took to be a metaphorical reference. He never expands on it, which if he had done in the modern section might have tied them together better.

Flynn didn't finish anything in either story. He just left once he revealed his punch line. What happened to Dietrich, did he die of plague (not a given with the recently discovered gene mutation), or was he finally caught and punished by the Church for his past or new sins ? Why was the village never resettled ? Ghost stories lose their potency over 700 years; did other things happen later on ? Since the plague was so devastating, how many people were actually left alive to know/spread/believe the ghost stories in the first place ? How was this location any different than many others in the Black Forest with equally fearsome tales ?

That Dietrich was a scholar and a man of reason and just happened to be there, along with the various exotic human visitors to that small spot on the road seemed to be just too much Deus ex Machina. Even with all the dispersion due to fleeing the plague, it stretches credibility.

In both sections of the story there were way too many foreign languages being used, words and phrases and no translation, glossary or footnotes. Almost as if he wanted to make the humanities portion of the book as obtuse as the science. That Tom and Sharon carried on in various foreign languages was just a slap in the face to the reader, because there was no reason for it. At least the medieval section had a reason to use German and Latin.

I don’t think Flynn did enough to explore why Hans and the others stayed when their craft left. I thought it could have been interesting to see what motivated Hans, what Dietrich assumed to be reason, and what minor factors also played a role.

What I did like was the interaction between Hans and Dietrich. It was awkward at first when Flynn couldn’t quite express himself, but it got much better, and eventually became the best part of the book. Hans was less alien than some of the humans.

I also liked the dying sheep and other large livestock, not just the rats. He seemed to be incorporating the theory that some of the death from disease was actually Anthrax and not just plague. Neither Bubonic nor Pneumonic plague explains those who were healthy at night, showed no physical symptoms and were found dead and unmarked in the morning.

It took me a while to read it and when I was doing so, for most of the book I just wanted it to end.

 

[Lfex]

Well, I don't feel I really need to have everything put out black on white. I don't really need to know what happened to surviving characters after the end of thestory, and idea that resulting ghost story was powerful enough to prevent resettlement doesn't stretch my willing suispension of disbelief. Rest of your gripes seems clearly a matter of taste to me. For example foreign language quotations are always good think in my book - the more the merrier - and both contemporary character seemed very sympathetic to me.

My gripe with The Wreck was mostly that it read so much like Ten Little Indians. I realize i was purposeful effect, but it failed to resonate with me.

 

[Raule]

At the end Flynn says in one of his notes that he had a hard time trying to write as modern person, from the medieval perspective of the people in the historical setting. It was evident in his writing. ...
That self-consciousness, where he couldn't just write the story from the within the characters, without worrying about the accuracy of the historical voice produced an awkward stiffness that was there for 3/4 of the book in the medieval section, and that was the only decent part of the book.

I couldn't quite express what bothered me about this book, but I think the above sums up how I felt about it. But the author's biggest blunder, in my mind, was what you mention further down...

That Dietrich was a scholar and a man of reason and just happened to be there, along with the various exotic human visitors to that small spot on the road seemed to be just too much Deus ex Machina. Even with all the dispersion due to fleeing the plague, it stretches credibility.

....

I don’t think Flynn did enough to explore why Hans and the others stayed when their craft left. I thought it could have been interesting to see what motivated Hans, what Dietrich assumed to be reason, and what minor factors also played a role.

I can pinpoint the moment the novel lost its credibility with me to that moment when Hans decided to stay and Dietrich's interpretation of it.

I read this last summer, so my memory had started to fade, but I agree with your analysis of it, FicusFan.

 

[cougs]

This has proved to be a tedious read for me. I wouldn't classify the book as bad, there are no glaring problems, and at times it was actually quite good; but I've recently put it down about halfway through.

The first contact section, Dietrich's musings about his academic life, and Dietrich's travels to the city where he previously sinned kept me interested for a brief amount of time.

A bunch of little things caused me to lose interest in the book. The unnecessary "now" chapters, the different languages and archaic terms with no translations or footnotes, and dialog that felt "awkward" to me. I'm sure a lot of this can be attributed to me lack of knowledge and lack of a serious interest in historic everyday life of the time period.

I haven't quit it yet, just set it down for now with plans to give it another shot soon. I hate to leave a book halfway through.

 

[Libo]

It was hard for me to believe that the now section stood alone. Tom's story and research seemed interesting but Sharon just seemed to sit daydreaming on the couch between sniping at Tom and taking him to dinner. I really had a harder time with her research, and then it didn't ever really seem relevant except as an explanation of the alien's space travel.

Then was interesting more as a historical novel than a science fiction one, although even that may be a little questionable since he didn't really explain his sources well. Didn't really expect lancing boils though

I generally don't like foreign phrases unless I can get a gist of what is being said but I can usually ignore it and it seemed to have more place in this story than others. The Greek words that Dietrich kept coming up with to describe things -- microphone etc just seemed a little cutesy. Kind of like using references to the Beatles or Rolling Stones to far out in a projected future to be believable. On the other hand maybe the well-educated medieval man would be able to describe each of those items with their modern equivalent. It just seems as though they'd miss every once in a while.

It seemed a cowardly act for the aliens that stayed. Since they were the ones who had fixed the ship it seemed to say they knew there was no hope. They would have been the most important ones to have aboard to try to fix anything en route.

It would have been nicer to see a stronger tie-in with the then and now portions of the story. But then maybe part of his point is that sometimes we don't have all the answers. They're lost in the past, or we haven't yet built the foundation for the knowledge yet.

 

[LordBalthazar]

Apologies as my copy arrived late from Amazon.com AND I was unable to locate this thread at first, buried as it is in general science fiction rather than the book club section. Anyway -

I thought this book was brilliant. While I agree with some that the contemporary sections at times felt like an unpleasant intrusion in the main narrative, I thought that the main story (the 14th century throughline) was brilliant and, for lack of a better way of putting it, "had a lot of heart". Flynn does a great job of developing interesting, believable, and ultimately sympathetic characters among both the humans and the aliens, something he wasn't quite able to pull off in Wreck of the River of Stars.

I had no problem with Dietrich being the one to come across the crashed alien ship. This is not a Deus Ex Machina While convenient, I've bumped on far, far worse coincidences and contrived plot elements in former books of the month that readers have been perfectly willing to if not accept than happily ignore.

I thought Flynn did an excellent job of immersing the reader in the culture and mind-set of the times, and I loved how Dietrich, as a man struggling to reconcile evolutions in science to his standing faith, is able to use his knoweldge of both to reconcile these otherworldly beings to a cautious and superstitious community.

The humor and poignancy of the little moments went a long way toward making this book so memorable -

- Dietrich's initial attempts to communicate with the aliens by repeating their utterances (Bwawawawa) winning him a cuff upside the head.

- One of the small-minded townspeople voicing his suspicions that Jews were responsible for the plague, pointing out that their community doesn't seem to suffer as much as others and tossing out improbable theories as to why - one of which is the fact that they assiduously clean out their bedding every morning.

- Dietrich's realization, at the bedside of one of the dying Krenken, that their expressions of joy (laughter) and sadness (crying) are surprisingly similar - not unlike humans.

I didn't mind the open-ended ending. At first, I did wonder. Did Dietrich die of the plague? Did those who left escape it? What happened to everyone? The answer = They all died. Eventually.

The contemporary sections aside, I thought this book brilliant. More than anything, it now makes me want to check out Vinge's Rainbows End which actually beat it for the Hugo.