Forgotten Classic Fantasy

[Kingslayer]

Can you tell me a bit more about Vance's Dying Earth, Fitz?I've been on and off about buying this, because I don't usually read Sci Fi.

 

[Rob B]

The only real science fiction aspect of it is that it takes place on Earth billions of years in the future. Actually it is a collection of a shorter novels that chronicle some of the remaining wizards (i.e. Rhialto the Marvelous) a scoundrel (Cudgel the Clever) and how they scheme to get talismans such as the Eyes of Overworld.

Vance is a master at writing, in that his sentences are fresh and original. Wordmastery is what it is. The guy invented some words and used not-so-everyday words in his writing.

And what me be a little-known fact is that much of the original Dungeons and Dragons by Gary Gygax game is based on The Dying Earth, such as the spells and magical items.

 

[Rob B]

Just thought I'd drop a note to let folks know that the venerable Science Fiction Book Club will be reprinting The Three of Swords by Fritz Leiber (which includes Swords Against Deviltry, Swords Against Death and Swords in the Mist) in November

Finally, I can get my hands on this stuff in a collected volume.

 

[Llama]

I noticed at SF Site a review of David Lindsay's forgotten classic A VOYAGE TO ARCTURUS here:

http://www.sfsite.com/09b/va136.htm

It's a fairly accurate review, particularly in noting that there's not much of a plot, and with the exception that I've never thought of the novel as SF but as fantasy. Lindsay's best was probably the weird classic THE HAUNTED WOMAN, and although it's part of the Newcastle Forgotten Fantasy reprints it's been a while since I've seen a copy.

And SF Site is also carrying a review of an excellent novel by John Ford which, although it came out later than most authors discussed on this thread, does seem to have been unjustly forgotten and is OOP in the US:

http://www.sfsite.com/09b/dw136.htm

 

[Rob B]

I may have posted this link before, but it's worth posting again since they've got a few new books coming out soon:Bison Frontiers of Imagination.

It also gives me an excuse to bump this, one of my favorite topics!

 

[Llama]

Thanks for the link, Fitz. I like those guys, but didn't realize they had a website. I'll have to pick up ERB's John Carter books and reread them -- they're dated but still fun. More important, however, is the fact that they have a Francis Stevens short story collection coming out. That's pretty impressive. She wrote two very good novels, CITADEL OF FEAR and HOUNDS OF CERBERUS. I didn't realize she had short stories as well. I eagerly await them.

 

[whitebelly]

I'm not sure THE MASTER AND MARGARITA by Mikhail Bulgakov would qualify as a forgotten fantasy classic, but I can't stress enough what a brilliant novel this is. Quite unlike any of the other russian classics I have read. Just read it.

For people who want to know what a book is about, this is the synopsis on amazon: "The Devil disguised as a magician descends upon Moscow in the 1930s with his riotous band, which includes, a talking cat, and an expert assassin. Together they cause chaos in a society which denies the Devil's existence."

Rereading one of my favourites: FIREWORKS by Angela Carter, even better than THE BLOODY CHAMBER imo.

 

[Llama]

I'm not sure it's forgotten, but it's a certainly a fantasy classic.

 

[Bond]

I'm not certain how germane it is to the present topic but I'm curious, what fantasy series started you guys out reading fantasy in the first place?

I mean for someone like myself, aside from folk tales, I was introduced to the fantasy genre by Weis and Hickman's original Dragonlance books. Quite a few other by the likes of Eddings and Brooks. Have you read them all? While not as forgotten as some of the other books mentioned so far and not as overtly "literary", I think an argument could be made in the future to consider some of these more populist works as "classics". What say you?

 

[Rob B]

Originally posted by Bond
I'm not certain how germane it is to the present topic but I'm curious, what fantasy series started you guys out reading fantasy in the first place?

It really isn't. There was a topic that specifically asked this question. I'll try to find it and bump it up.

Originally posted by Bond
I mean for someone like myself, aside from folk tales, I was introduced to the fantasy genre by Weis and Hickman's original Dragonlance books. Quite a few other by the likes of Eddings and Brooks. Have you read them all? While not as forgotten as some of the other books mentioned so far and not as overtly "literary", I think an argument could be made in the future to consider some of these more populist works as "classics". What say you?

First these books really aren't forgotten. People talk about them quite a bite in the forums. We were using the term classic to refer to books that predate Tolkien and the stuff that came out before the 1970s boon in fantasy.

 

[Bond]

Well the main thrust of my post was to ask whether these popular fantasies would qualify in the future as "classic fantasy" in the minds of those commenting on the "forgotten" classic fantasy of the past.

A side question I would have is what makes a classic fantasy a "classic"? Also considering the amount of time invested by those in this thread in reading the older classic stuff, might they perhaps have overlooked the more mass market labelled popular fantasy? For example William Safire, his head probably stuck in the latest Pulitzer Prize winning biographies, pretty much acknowledged he only read the first Harry Potter book before pronouncing judgment on all of them.

 

[Rob B]

these popular fantasies would qualify in the future as "classic fantasy" in the minds of those commenting on the "forgotten" classic fantasy of the past.

Perhaps, but again, thats more a topic in and of itself. I believe Caldazar or Hemingway created a topic to address just that, what will be classic fantasy in the future.

I will try to find this thread and bump it up for you or come back here and provide the link.

As for what makes a classic a classic? Thats a definition that can be very open to debate. I have said perhaps the 15 year rule used for cars should be used. I don't know.

For the purposes of this thread, though the books should be just under the radar, usually predate the boon in the 70s and for the better part of these books, either be contemporary or predate LOTR.

 

[Llama]

Well, I love beautiful books and one of the nicest ones I've seen lately, which I've been reading, is this edition of David Lindsay's A VOYAGE TO ARCTURUS put out by Savoy Press.

Turns out Jeff Vandermeer did a little interview with them about how the book came to be, and since readers don't tend to find out much about such things as the various decisions that go into the design of a book I thought I'd just link it here. Then again, unless you've seen the book it may not mean very much....

http://www.abel.net.uk/~savoy/HTML/arcturus.html

 

[jfclark]

ARCTURUS is one of those books that, one supposes, requires multiple readings even to understand, let alone enjoy. On my first reading I was bewildered more than amazed, though I knew that there was much more to be mined out of the book. I have yet to reread it, but will do so eventually.

Speaking of beautiful reprints, the first half of the Vance Integral Edition has been printed and mailed. I am really impressed by the results of collective fan effort.

 

[Calandra]

I am relatively new to this forum, but I have never seen the L. Frank Baum Oz books discussed, and in my mind they are pre-Tolkienien classic fantasy literature in the grand style. While some of the books are still available today as "children's literature" and are thus not strictly "forgotten", I think that most people have only read the Wizard of Oz or seen the movie, but that the rest of the series is virtually forgotten, even though many of the books (like Ozma of Oz, TickTock of Oz, the Land of Oz, etc.) are 100 times better than the Wizard of Oz.

While I don't necessarily recommend adults reading this forum to rush out and look for these books, I think that they would be great for anyone with kids. My dad read them to me when I was about 6 or 7, and I loved them all and constantly used the characters and stories to play make-believe. I still remember the books 25 years later, and I put few in that category other than Tolkien. The world of Oz is extremely original and there are some great characters like the Gnome King, Ozma, etc. plus the ones that everyone knows from the Wizard of Oz (and let me stress again that this is nowhere near the best of the books).

 

[Beleg]

Even though Fitz has listed this in his links thread, I thought I'd just bump this really really really really excellent thread. Thanks Llama, Fitz, Hobbit, jfclark and others for your valueble recommendations and insight.


The novel Nightland is avalable online [Due to the expiration of copyrights] and can be read here

For William Hope's admirers here's a great treasure and contains links to many of his online works as well as many other things.

The Department of Literature of Miskatonic University apparantly has some keen classic fantasy fans the result of which is this gem

They have a worthy cause there, as their main page proclaims,

Welcome to the internet on-line campus of Miskatonic University, dedicated to the works of H. P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Robert W. Chambers, Edgar Allan Poe, and others of the arcane tradition. This site was developed to allow non-registered students a way of attending the University. The purpose of the on-line campus is to foster continued interest in the literary arts and provide resource material, research information, and a forum for students, writers, and enthusiasts of literature. The site will continue to evolve over time as new courses are put on line. It is a continuing education project.

Project Gutenburg has some Lord Dunsany texts here for those who are intrested.

For those intrested in pursuing books published before 1925-30, Project Gutenberg provides a treasuretrove of excellent books, most of which are out-of-print.

James Branch Cabell : Nice Links

According to a post on another board,

'I just wanted to add that I did a search at www.abebooks.com and found they had 1734 books in their database matching Lord Dunsany.'

Granted many of them would be anthologies, but this tells us something about the prolificity of the author.

If you are looking for old classics and can't afford to buy the hardcopy/the hardcopy is out of print/a variety of other reasons here is a list of good, Legal online text providers.

A Link for links

Another link

Project Gutenberg Mainsite

I am going to start 'Nightland' as soon as possible. If It is anything like what a few people claim then It would be more then worth my time.

 

[Rob B]

One of the pulp fantasy writers that is seeing an audience in today's market is Charles Tanner and his creation, Tumithak of the Corridors. Black Gate magazine is reprinting these stories. I read the first one in the Spring 2003 issue and really enjoyed it. The only problem with Black Gate magazine is finding it in bookstores, but they are publishing good stories, both old new and "Forgotten Classics"

I'd say the Tumithak stories fit rightly in the sceince fantasy vein. Fun stuff indeed.

 

[Jenab]

Worm Ourobouros is actually not a part of any series by the man Eddison...

Is that the book where in the beginning somebody gets transported to Mercury, but later it seems as if the author has completely forgotten which planet the story is taking place on?

Has anybody read Camp of the Saints by Jean Raspail?

 

[Bryheinnen]

Some of my all-time favorites...

Hello, it seems that although most people on the forum are readers of contemporary fantasy there may be a few like myself who also search out and enjoy old classic fantasy (by which I mean fantasy that's at least forty or fifty years old and preferably pre-Tolkien). It also seems like there are folks out there who might be interested in reading some of these works if only someone would tell them where to look. So I've now started this thread, where people can discuss their favorite classic authors and works and perhaps give recommendations to others. To keep discussion moving I will try to post a minireview of a work I like every couple of weeks or so, although people should obviously feel free to post whatever they want whenever they want.

What authors am I talking about? Here's a sampling: Ashton Smith, Hope Hodgson, Eddison, Cabell, Merritt, Warner Munn, Blackwood, Chambers, Bramah, Moore, Dunsany, Crawford, MacDonald, Meredith, Beckford, Wandrei, etc, etc , etc. Have fun!

Is F. R. Bellamy's "ATTA". The concept: a man suddenly finds himself reduced to the size of an ant. An interesting exciting--and yes, oddly touching book.

Then there's "SHARDIK" by Richard Adams--concept: A giant bear is the messiah of an alternate world. Uneven andsometimes drags, but full of scenes of Old Testament power. His "WATERSHIP DOWN" and "PLAGUE DOGS"--the later, though excellent, as an animal lover such a painful treatment of animal experimentation I have never been able bring myself to reread it--are worth a look as well.

 

[Yobmod]

I got Watership down from the library today, but its hardly pre-tolkien fantasy, it was published in 1972. Its also his first book, so Shardik must be even later.